2015 Trade Deadline Thread - Ramirez to Pirates

blazza18 · Post #181 » by **blazza18** » Thu Jun 4, 2015 12:00 am

I've found it odd how often I've seen Segura mentioned as untouchable when reports have talked about what we might do. The organisation seems overly high on him.

Kerb Hohl · Post #182 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Thu Jun 4, 2015 3:50 am

ReasonablySober wrote:I have doubts that either Segura or Sardinas will hit well enough to play 2B.

Agree.

Outlander · Post #183 » by **Outlander** » Thu Jun 4, 2015 6:39 pm

A middle of the road second baseman over the last 10 years has around a 700 OPS and Segura exceeded that in 2013 and is track do that in 2015. However, he likely has more value as a SS both in trade value and when he becomes a free agent.

Kerb Hohl · Post #184 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Thu Jun 4, 2015 7:02 pm

Yeah I was gonna say that I could see him being good enough to be a 2B...but I'm not sure I'm willing to covet him as a league-average 2B...especially when his price tag begins to rise.

El Duderino · Post #185 » by **El Duderino** » Thu Jun 4, 2015 8:50 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:Yeah I was gonna say that I could see him being good enough to be a 2B...but I'm not sure I'm willing to covet him as a league-average 2B...especially when his price tag begins to rise.

Plus, i think playing Segura at second wastes some of his value given he's a quality defensive shortstop which is a more important position on the defensive spectrum. I'd rather trade him if a good return could be had than move him to second permanently once Arcia comes up.

As for Sardinas, everything he hits is mostly weak and thus he'll rely heavily on BABIP numbers to be high to carry a decent batting average and on top of that, he doesn't draw walks. His future looks to be more as an utility infielder than an everyday starter.

Matches Malone · Post #186 » by **Matches Malone** » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:46 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/608745241072402432[/tweet]

BigDee · Post #187 » by **BigDee** » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:01 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JP_Breen/status/608746782080663552[/tweet]

Sky Bucks · Post #188 » by **Sky Bucks** » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:13 pm

I just want the Brewers to embrace the rebuild and go 100% towards it.

Thunder Muscle · Post #189 » by **Thunder Muscle** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:25 pm

I can't imagine Aramis nets much of a hall at this point, does he? PTBL?

Post #190 » by **humanrefutation** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:46 pm

Does Aramis have a no-trade clause? I was under the impression that one of the major reasons he signed with the Brewers was to be close to his family in Chicago.

Kerb Hohl · Post #191 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:23 pm

Some tweets that the Mets were also asking about Segura, who is "unlikely to be available" from the Brewers.

I wouldn't give Segura away, but that's incredibly stupid. I don't think he'll be a great defender by the next time the Brewers contend.

Kerb Hohl · Post #192 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:04 pm

I noted this over at Brewerfan - Melvin needs to shift the rotation right now. Let Cravy, Jungmann, Nelson or the "other 3" go at Coors Field next weekend. We don't need Garza/Lohse's ERAs soaring over 6 again. It would be nice to be able to market them to other teams.

coolhandluke121 · Post #193 » by **coolhandluke121** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:21 pm

I would definitely look to trade guys like KD, Segura, Peralta, and maybe even Nelson. How old will they be once the rebuilding is over? They won't be under team control anymore, except Nelson. And even if the team is ready to be on the upswing again in 4 years, they won't be ready to contend. The next wave of talent will just be starting to hit their stride, and there's no point to keeping supporting cast players around until then. You'd just be wasting their best years of cheap production under team control. Cash in on their trade value, unless you can't get a good offer. You can go after more supporting cast players 5 years from now. I don't see any of those players as the type of talent worth keeping if you can trade them for younger prospects who are more suited to being part of the next window of contention, which is likely to begin 4-5 years from now at the earliest.

I also want to move on from the whole legacy of horrible defenders like Davis who can't run, throw, or field, and extremely undisciplined players like Segura who show no patience at the plate and make horrible decisions on the basepaths. This team has had more than its fair share of that type of player, and while most of them have been pretty good players (all things considered) they haven't been good enough to compete with other good teams who maximize their talent.

Kerb Hohl · Post #194 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:09 am

Somebody with an eye on the future could really make this thing work...

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/06/t ... twins.html

El Duderino · Post #195 » by **El Duderino** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:25 pm

coolhandluke121 wrote:I would definitely look to trade guys like KD, Segura, Peralta, and maybe even Nelson.

Davis is out after knee surgery and Peralta is also injured. So even if the Brewers were willing to trade either, it would have to be in the offseason.

and extremely undisciplined players like Segura who show no patience at the plate

Segura i'd definitely be willing to move for a quality offer, but look at the stats once for shortstops across baseball. It's not a pretty sight. Even with his flaws as a hitter, he has the 10th highest OPS at his position. The days of a bunch of top notch two way shortstops who both hit great and play well defensively look over for now at least.

The league is now full of shortstops hitting in the .600's and below OPS level.

rarjake · Post #196 » by **rarjake** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:04 am

I cant believe the brewers have not made ANY trades yet. Gomez, would be a guy i would want to go this year, at the deadline, when his value is so so high. If you wait till the off-season, or next year, the prospects you get back are only going ot get lesss and less, and what exactly is the point in keeping him. Fans will understand why we are trading him, don't pander to the dumfks . Would love to trade Segura if we can, i love him but we have Orlando Arica in AA just tearing it up, and he is ranked in Keith Laws top 50 prospects now. Combined with Sardinas of course. This is a ways off, but Gilbert Lara is also about to start his career, and when you spend 3 million on a 16 year old, you expect him to be a starting MLB player. I know its years away, and he is likely to change positions, but right now he is playing SS.

El Duderino · Post #197 » by **El Duderino** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 2:57 am

rarjake wrote:I cant believe the brewers have not made ANY trades yet.

Nobody has made trades yet for a simple reason.

It's as much about the contending teams who may look to make trades than it is about potential sellers. Those contenders often want to wait until you get closer to the deadline because

1. They want to be sure come July to later July that they actually are in good shape for a run at the playoffs.

2. They want to wait until July and not this early to see what their main need/needs are for the stretch run given things can change quickly.

What could seem like a big need now may not be as much of a big need come mid to late July. An injury or injuries over the next month could create a need which isn't there right now. A positional player or say bullpen spot struggling now may right themselves over the next few weeks before the deadline.

Here and there teams will make a significant trade right around now instead of in July, but that's just more uncommon than trades in July.

I'm pretty certain the Brewers will end up selling off a player or players before the deadline, but odds are more likely that it will happen at some point in July vs in June and not just because the Brewers want to wait.

BDKiiing · Post #198 » by **BDKiiing** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:46 am

El Duderino wrote:
rarjake wrote:I cant believe the brewers have not made ANY trades yet.

1. They want to be sure come July to later July that they actually are in good shape for a run at the playoffs.

2. They want to wait until July and not this early to see what their main need/needs are for the stretch run given things can change quickly.

That's crazy though. The Brewers are in the cellar, it's irresponsible to think they have a shot at playoffs. Everyday they wait Adam Lind and Carlos Gomez lose some value. It's clear what they need, they need prospects to replenish the farm system.

El Duderino · Post #199 » by **El Duderino** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:03 am

BDKiiing wrote:
El Duderino wrote:
rarjake wrote:I cant believe the brewers have not made ANY trades yet.

1. They want to be sure come July to later July that they actually are in good shape for a run at the playoffs.

2. They want to wait until July and not this early to see what their main need/needs are for the stretch run given things can change quickly.

That's crazy though. The Brewers are in the cellar, it's irresponsible to think they have a shot at playoffs. Everyday they wait Adam Lind and Carlos Gomez lose some value. It's clear what they need, they need prospects to replenish the farm system.

You clearly didn't read or understand my post well because i wasn't talking about the Brewers perspective in either of those two points.

BDKiiing · Post #200 » by **BDKiiing** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:14 am

El Duderino wrote:
BDKiiing wrote:
El Duderino wrote:
1. They want to be sure come July to later July that they actually are in good shape for a run at the playoffs.

2. They want to wait until July and not this early to see what their main need/needs are for the stretch run given things can change quickly.

That's crazy though. The Brewers are in the cellar, it's irresponsible to think they have a shot at playoffs. Everyday they wait Adam Lind and Carlos Gomez lose some value. It's clear what they need, they need prospects to replenish the farm system.

You clearly didn't read or understand my post well because i wasn't talking about the Brewers perspective in either of those two points.

Regardless, there's enough clarity for some teams that there should be some talk. Reds will find a way to deal chapman and cueto before the Brewers do anything. They'll be stuck with their arms.