Come on yall we have to get this forum popping!

[Head Leader]

i know we suck right now but atleast lets start discussing some trades or guys wed like to see on the team in the future....

Lets go GM's!!

[backer55]

We needed a solid guy a month or more ago while we were fighting for first place, hand writting was on the wall...Mine! But NO!! "let's rebuild,.. We don't have anybody they want,.. we don't have to win this year...i can live with it" Now posts read that they "have had it with this team", sound familar? Spilt Milk.

When Bonds was signed, he needed to be protected. He can't do it all by himself, but he trys. He is the main thing that is interesting about this team. I aint buying that there is no money for a guy. They will be spending plenty in a long term contract next year for a #4 hitter cause he sure as heck ain't gonna be home grown. Could have spent the money this year, and with Bonds , won all or most of those one-two run games. "i cuda been a contenda"

Ive been a Serious Giants Fan since 1964, Thick and Thin, through it all. I had already made up my mind last year. When Bonds goes ...i go. I'm going to retire from being a fan. So, i guess i won't get to win a world series either. I haven't watched a football game in years, i don't miss it and i used to play. I think i'm not going to miss baseball either. You guys re-build, i'm going fishing.

[backer55]

We needed a solid guy a month or more ago while we were fighting for first place, hand writting was on the wall...Mine! But NO!! "let's rebuild,.. We don't have anybody they want,.. we don't have to win this year...i can live with it" Now posts read that they "have had it with this team", sound familar? Spilt Milk.

When Bonds was signed, he needed to be protected. He can't do it all by himself, but he trys. He is the main thing that is interesting about this team. I aint buying that there is no money for a guy. They will be spending plenty in a long term contract next year for a #4 hitter cause he sure as heck ain't gonna be home grown. Could have spent the money this year, and with Bonds , won all or most of those one-two run games. "i cuda been a contenda"

Ive been a Serious Giants Fan since 1964, Thick and Thin, through it all. I had already made up my mind last year. When Bonds goes ...i go. I'm going to retire from being a fan. So, i guess i won't get to win a world series either. I haven't watched a football game in years, i don't miss it and i used to play. I think i'm not going to miss baseball either. You guys re-build, i'm going fishing.

[Head Leader]

We needed a solid guy a month or more ago while we were fighting for first place, hand writting was on the wall...Mine! But NO!! "let's rebuild,.. We don't have anybody they want,.. we don't have to win this year...i can live with it" Now posts read that they "have had it with this team", sound familar? Spilt Milk.

When Bonds was signed, he needed to be protected. He can't do it all by himself, but he trys. He is the main thing that is interesting about this team. I aint buying that there is no money for a guy. They will be spending plenty in a long term contract next year for a #4 hitter cause he sure as heck ain't gonna be home grown. Could have spent the money this year, and with Bonds , won all or most of those one-two run games. "i cuda been a contenda"

Ive been a Serious Giants Fan since 1964, Thick and Thin, through it all. I had already made up my mind last year. When Bonds goes ...i go. I'm going to retire from being a fan. So, i guess i won't get to win a world series either. I haven't watched a football game in years, i don't miss it and i used to play. I think i'm not going to miss baseball either. You guys re-build, i'm going fishing.

Bottom line is the Giants did try to get Carlos Lee, Soriano and Vlad...

Vlad we were goign to be outbid regardless.. and Lee and soriano just did not want to come here... so whose fault is that?

I mean seriously man. Your batting 3rd and Feliz batting 4th is supposed to protect you?? oh wait aminute Bengie Molina.... Better yet... Ray **** Durham.

The lack of home grown prospects thanks to Sabean only drafting pitchers then trading them for Guys liek Randy Winn and AJ Piersyznski is what killed the Giants.

I dont see why you are so attached to Barry... if anything you should say.. as long as Sabean is here you wont be...I wasnt born until 81 so i cant feel your pain totally man, but the fact is ive been dissapointed being a giants fan for a long time. Every year is always a new excuse and more old fogeys who breakdown mid way thru the season.

Barry will be 43 by season end for goodness sakes.
Why we cant draft a Cabrera or Mauer, or Pedroia, or Wright or anyone of that nature is beyond my beleif...

Last eyar we could have had Lastings Milledge for Schmidt. we ended up with no playoffs and no Schmidt..and to make matters worse that sonofabitch went to the Dodgers.

What a Great GM we have.

[opzoneworld]

It is not just the GM. Don't get me wrong, he should not be resigned this offseason but it is not the GM. It is our two lovely owners moreso than our GM. They have our GM by the nut sack. He has no real control over what happens. Listen to them talk. Our GM tells it like it is. "We need to make some moves. We need to get younger." Then you have our two owners talk. "These guys will get back up to their career averages. Fans wont take a rebuilding effort."

The owners have been loyal to Bonds and have tried to give him his ring. They are hollywood owners. They need that starpower. That is why they have let Bonds get away with everything. AJ said when he was here. So did Kent. Zito is saying now. The clubhouse sucks. That is why they will shell out to bring in A-Rod next year instead of drafting A-Rod type players themselves. They want immediate stardom to get onto Sportscenter and to put fans in the seats.

Its why they have stuck by Bonds. Its why they shelled out all that $$$ to build a new stadium. That is why the Giants have blown the last 10 or so drafts and greatly, GREATLY blew this last draft.

Part of it is also the fans fault. Until the fans unite and demand more, the owners have no reason to change. Why should they? They are still pulling in the $$$ and are putting a **** product on the field.

Pro sports has become a business and a business in run on money. You want things to change, take away the money. So simple yet so unlikely to happen.

I am going to guess the Giants finished with the 6th worst record, pick #6 next year and, of course, take a pitcher. That is why we aren't posting here. What is the point? The firesale we are all begging for wont happen. Not with these owners.

But I will still say GO GIANTS till the end.

[Head Leader]

It is not just the GM. Don't get me wrong, he should not be resigned this offseason but it is not the GM. It is our two lovely owners moreso than our GM. They have our GM by the nut sack. He has no real control over what happens. Listen to them talk. Our GM tells it like it is. "We need to make some moves. We need to get younger." Then you have our two owners talk. "These guys will get back up to their career averages. Fans wont take a rebuilding effort."

The owners have been loyal to Bonds and have tried to give him his ring. They are hollywood owners. They need that starpower. That is why they have let Bonds get away with everything. AJ said when he was here. So did Kent. Zito is saying now. The clubhouse sucks. That is why they will shell out to bring in A-Rod next year instead of drafting A-Rod type players themselves. They want immediate stardom to get onto Sportscenter and to put fans in the seats.

Its why they have stuck by Bonds. Its why they shelled out all that $$$ to build a new stadium. That is why the Giants have blown the last 10 or so drafts and greatly, GREATLY blew this last draft.

Part of it is also the fans fault. Until the fans unite and demand more, the owners have no reason to change. Why should they? They are still pulling in the $$$ and are putting a **** product on the field.

Pro sports has become a business and a business in run on money. You want things to change, take away the money. So simple yet so unlikely to happen.

I am going to guess the Giants finished with the 6th worst record, pick #6 next year and, of course, take a pitcher. That is why we aren't posting here. What is the point? The firesale we are all begging for wont happen. Not with these owners.

But I will still say GO GIANTS till the end.

You make good points and i agree with everything you say 100%.
But if Sabean really is being hamstrung by Baer and Co. why doesnt he just peace out?

Whats the point if your not the one really doing the moves.
Free money?... I guess. But why put yourself thru all that stress

I guess the whole point of this thread is to get some people like you and I to discuss the situation more throughly.. even tho we know nothing will change.

We could be our own little KNBR.

I guess Sabean was right.. If we thought Benitez was the problem we were all very wrong.

[opzoneworld]

I'm not trying to say our GM has no say. He has some. He tried to bring in some bats via FA this offseason. They all choose to go elsewhere, some even taking less money to do so. I believe this is because there was no question ownership would bring Bonds back and as much as the players say they support Bonds, one cannot believe they enjoy being a part of this circus. AJ didn't. Kent didn't. Zito doesn't. They are the ones who have spoken out. Who else feels the same way and doesnt have the courage to say so will always be unknown.

Our GM has made some bad moves recently. Very bad moves and has to take responsibility for those moves. At the same though, he was forced into those moves. He has to work with what he has and what he has isn't that much. I believe that is why he is speaking out now. He can leave after this season. We fans cannot.

Personally, I can take a 100 loss season. I can took two or three or four 100 loss seasons; however, I can only do so knowing that the Giants are doing something. So far, I know two things:

1) The giants cannot bring in quality FA's. Either they have to settle for less-tallent FA's or they have a horrid scouting department but either way, nearly every FA they have brought in over the past five or so seasons has been a bust.

2) The giants cannot evaluate draft tallent. Plain and simple. We all know how horrid their possition players have turned out and how they continue to make the same draft day mistakes year in and year out.

So if you cannot bring in FA's and you cannot build via the draft, then how can you field a winning team? Until the culture of this organization changes, we can rant and rave and cry and complain all we want but it wont matter. The Giants will not go on a firesale, no matter how much the fans clamor for one. Why do I say this? Because when is the last time they did? They wont admit their mistakes. They haven't yet so why would they now. They will finish in the bottom 10 again and try to buy themselves out if once again. They will do this until fans unite and force them to change their ways.

[FaTaL]

sabean cant draft hitters, thats what has caused this collapse. they wasted barrys great years surrounding him with the edgardo alfonzos and michael tuckers while passing up greats like vlad.

2) The giants cannot evaluate draft tallent. Plain and simple. We all know how horrid their possition players have turned out and how they continue to make the same draft day mistakes year in and year out.

they've proven they know how to evaluate arms, simply horrendous on hitting. people say give sabean a chance to rebuild this team, why? hows this team going to rebuild in 5 years when they have no legitmate proven hitters in the minors. i'll tell you what the next 5 years will look like without bonds, a team full of hackers and low obp who dont hit for power. enjoy giants fans, sabean must be fired!

[backer55]

"I believe this is because there was no question ownership would bring Bonds back and as much as the players say they support Bonds, one cannot believe they enjoy being a part of this circus. AJ didn't. Kent didn't. Zito doesn't. They are the ones who have spoken out."

Well, there you go. Blame it on Bonds.

I did not believe that they were going to sign Bonds. If they got one of the big names on a long term contract, Barry? naw, i don't think so... Barry was a late option deal.

Who gives two cents about what Kent and AJ think about Bonds. Couple surly charectors at best, they habitually bad team-mates who do not get along with anybody. Zito has his own problems, they got nothing to do with Bonds. Besides i haven't heard that from Zito.

What Barry has asked of his team-mates is to keep your head in the game, be a professional, and do the small things it takes to be a winner. He got crap. Oh there is some days and some times i think there is promise but for the most part. Barry is surounded by guys going through the motions, under achievers, rally killers, has been, and wanna be's. Yea,. Blame it on Bonds

I place a lot of The blame on Sabean and don't tell me that it's not his fault. He could a Quit. What really ticks me off most is his whinny comments about having to please everybody and get rid of Benetez. Now he's saying that the Giants have to get back to .500 and maybe he'll make some moves. He took the credit in good times. Now he won't take the blame for the Bad. It's our fault? GONE!!...

[backer55]

Besides Barry Bonds and the pitching staff, these are the guys on the team who i believe deserve to be Giants. Omar, Klesko, and Roberts. All great guys to come off the bench!

[GS Warriors 1]

Most of the draft blame game should land on Matt Nerland, at least on the hitters front.

They seem to be leaning towards getting bats internationally, like they got Villalona last year.

[opzoneworld]

You kind of made my point Fatal. They can only draft pitchers. It is almost as if it is impossible for them to produce a solid overall draft class. 2006 could be the exception but throughout the years they have always brought up good pitching and no hitting. In my opinion, that makes them horrible draft evaluators. The A's and Braves are great why? Because they can produce both pitchers and hitters. Year in and year out they produce solid classes because they know what hitters to take where and what pitchers to take where. Year after year they are in the playoff hunt. Generally speaking, the Giants are horrible player evaluators because they can only produce pitching and as we see now, pitching is not good enough to get W's.

Backer, I am not blaming Bonds at all. I am claiming that our problems are part his fault. I put the biggest percent of blame on our owners whom I consider hollywood owners. I put a portion on our GM who has made some really bad moves. I put a portion on Bonds for not being what I consider a "team player". I put the remaining portion on us fans for not demanding differenly. I am a HUGE Bonds fan. Always have and always will be but he seems not to be able to change with the times. To me, this Giants team looks to be having no fun in that clubhouse. If you are not having fun, how can you win? You can't. I think that aspect of the team has a lot to do with Bonds.

I believe we have countless problems on this team and we should blow it all up. New owner philosophy, new GM, new MLB coaching staff, new scouting personnel, new minor league coaches, go younger, start building through the draft. I just have little faith it will happen based on our history. I hope I am wrong though.

[backer55]

Zone, I"ve always enjoied your posts and know that beyond a doubt in my mind that you really care and are a true Giants Fan. But About Bonds, I think Your Wrong.

Barry was/is Barry. Team player? do you want him to start swinging at pitches way outside the strike zone, get thrown out on the bases, pop up to the infield every time the bases are loaded with one out, not go to right field with runner on second and nobody out, pop up bunts, at least get a Sac Fly now and then, in short playing like most of the "other" Giants have been? He get's on Base near %50, should he lower that to %30 to be a team player? His OPS is tops in the N.League, probabley if he hit fewer home runs per AB and less doubles or struck out more instead of walks, dump when guys are in scoring position, that would help clubhouse moral? He's doing it, Bonds is playing good clean ball... their [generalization], Not!

The guys aren't having fun because they are not winning and not doing their job, what they are supposed to do day in and day out, What they get paid to do. To blame Bonds is to just point your finger at someone...anyone, rather than to accept blame on themself which in itself, is no fun.

If the giants were to still be playing above .500 ball, Barry would be Barry, but a clubhouse hero! He would still want to win it all... And if he's a bit Pissed Off and lets that be known, i don't blame him one bit.

[FaTaL]

this team is in the bottom 3 of obp this year, thats the biggest problem. without barry their easily the worst obp team in the league, when those other guys starting pulling their weight then we'll blame barry.

[Head Leader]

this team is in the bottom 3 of obp this year, thats the biggest problem. without barry their easily the worst obp team in the league, when those other guys starting pulling their weight then we'll blame barry.

they wont pull their weight, thats part of the problem man.

They CAN'T because they arent very good, and losing streaks dont help...

componded with the fact like backer and zone said nobody even looks like theyre having fun anymore (not even omar). This is all a bad bad sign

In organized team sports, when things go bad you always look to your team captain, to "set things straight" problem is. Barry dont do that, dude could careless. So you have defacto "capatains" like Omar, and ray durham and dave roberts.. who people like Feliz, and Aurilia look at liek.. "please gtfo of here you dont know our struggle"

We need a Leader. Plain and simple. I see none on the Giants. None at all. and i blame Barry for that.

[backer55]

510, Sounds like your talking about a coach..you know, pep talk, inspiratonal speeches, foot in their butt, and grab some pine. If Barry were to rant and rave up and down the dugout, things would only get worse... and fast.

These guys are pro's! Win some lose some, should make no difference how a guy carries himself. If you lose a few games, you shake it off and come in the next day ready to play your best. You don't need a cheerleader, you got here by your talent and you know yourself when your not playing up to you capabilities. If a sit-down with the coach dosen't work, being critisied by one of your team mates is certainly not the answer.

Again why is it so easy to point the finger at Barry, when the problem is in the whole room? The ONLY thing i can see is that when they signed Barry...they could have spent the money elseware. Once they did sign him, they needed to protect him or they get what they got now.

[FaTaL]

-= original quote snipped =-



We need a Leader. Plain and simple. I see none on the Giants. None at all. and i blame Barry for that.

haha blaming barry, this is baseball

in football and basketball you need leaders, baseball is a individual sport within in a team concept. the talent is the problem, it has nothing to do with barry. who are they going to blame next year when barry is gone? barry?

[opzoneworld]

^^^^^

I agree 100% there Fatal. Well said.

[Head Leader]

-= original quote snipped =-



haha blaming barry, this is baseball

in football and basketball you need leaders, baseball is a individual sport within in a team concept. the talent is the problem, it has nothing to do with barry. who are they going to blame next year when barry is gone? barry?

Im not necesarry blaming barry per say.. what i mean is. Barry has an air of arrogance around him, like nobody talk to me, im almighty barry, we lose so what im getting my money and im going to break this record.

Im not blaming him for losing. But it doesnt appear hes doing or saying anything to make the situation any better. and i damn well believe he doesnt respect Bruce Bochy

I guess thats what i meant.

[Head Leader]

-= original quote snipped =-



haha blaming barry, this is baseball

in football and basketball you need leaders, baseball is a individual sport within in a team concept. the talent is the problem, it has nothing to do with barry. who are they going to blame next year when barry is gone? barry?

Also i think its an indiviual sport to a certain extent.. if everyone around you is trying hard, having fun, loose then when your falling off a little bit you dont want to be the one who seems to be failing.

you want to step your game up a little bit to be on par or better then your teamates, thats what competition is about "pick me up man, i struck out with 2 on 1 out, pick me up".

It appears everyone on the giants has given up and nobody is having fun, nobody really cares. Although. This is a losign streak. but i just think if these guys were having more fun (or trying to) then things would be alot better then they are now