RS 23/24 - Mavs vs Grizzlies (Tuesd., 830PMEST)

[BliscoSantos]

Tell me, what can do Green with the ball in half court O, when he's guarded?

Josh was easily beaten by Smart in 1 on 1 D at least twice in very short period of time. I'm not saying that they lost because of that, I'm saying what is Josh value, if he can even guard Smart on ball?

I agree it's on Luka and I explained to you that no one can play all RS games perfectly. Especially when he visually doesn't look 100%. But good teams should find other ways to win against bad teams, and D is normally the way to go. And there I would expect defensive specialists to lead the way.

Josh is MLE level player, he shouldn't be able to do much, if he was he would be paid more.
I'm fine with a bad game, but Luka has missed 3 games, had 5 horrible ones (Raps, Pels, Jazz, Cavs and Grizzlies), and few bad ones (DEN 1st game, Bulls).
That's 1 in a 4 where Luka isn't a factor or a bad one, is this good?

There was an article before the season(smoking Cuban or mavsmoneyball... don't remember the site) where the author was wondering if Josh Green can reach all-star level...I wrote no chance,under the comments and said I'd be happy if he averaged 12ppg...most of the fans called me a Josh hater(which I'm not,I'm Just being realistic) ... he's a great athlete with low basketball IQ, poor handling and an average defender(he can guard SG but the SF are too big and strong for him)...he's only good on fast breaks,terrible on set ofense(because of poor handles, can't control his speed) ... everybody keeps mentioning his age but he's been in the league for 4 years and instead of making the leap,totaly regressed this season...he plays scared,with no confidence...I don't think he's mentaly Strong enough to become a valuable pieces

Green, Williams, Holmes,Kleber and Timmy are making rotation Players/starter money,yet basicaly none of them is a factor in most games

They probably aren't as bad as they've been playing and I think a coaching change would have been the biggest improvement this team could do...there aren't many options now(maybe Bud) ,but it's obvious Kidd isn't the man for this Job.. unfourtunately he's a Mavs legend and still has credit from that WCF run..they are probably gonna make a trade and then we'll get to hear how they need time to get to know each other and if/when the team will start to Play poor again,the blame will go on the role Players,not the coach

[Mavrelous]

Reviewed the 3 minutes Holmes played:
Smart 8' Driving Floating Jump Shot (10 PTS) -- GOOD Was boxing out Tillman
On the other end:
Hardaway Jr. 2' Cutting Layup Shot (2 PTS) (Holmes 1 AST) -- GREAT PLAY Made a perfect pass to cutter
Tillman REBOUND (Off:2 Def:2) -- BAD play, gave up offensive board
Irving Out of Bounds - Bad Pass Turnover Turnover (P1.T3) -- IRRELEVANT -- wasn't involved, Kyrie tries to hit Green cut
Kennard 3' Driving Floating Bank Jump Shot (5 PTS) (Roddy 1 AST) -- GOOD contest, Kennard made it anyway
Next play gets offensive board off Green miss, gets tied up, but won the jump ball, led to Hardy 3.


What exactly did Kidd see that resulted in yanking him is beyond me...

[Mavrelous]

Tell me, what can do Green with the ball in half court O, when he's guarded?

Josh was easily beaten by Smart in 1 on 1 D at least twice in very short period of time. I'm not saying that they lost because of that, I'm saying what is Josh value, if he can even guard Smart on ball?

I agree it's on Luka and I explained to you that no one can play all RS games perfectly. Especially when he visually doesn't look 100%. But good teams should find other ways to win against bad teams, and D is normally the way to go. And there I would expect defensive specialists to lead the way.

Josh is MLE level player, he shouldn't be able to do much, if he was he would be paid more.
I'm fine with a bad game, but Luka has missed 3 games, had 5 horrible ones (Raps, Pels, Jazz, Cavs and Grizzlies), and few bad ones (DEN 1st game, Bulls).
That's 1 in a 4 where Luka isn't a factor or a bad one, is this good?

There was an article before the season(smoking Cuban or mavsmoneyball... don't remember the site) where the author was wondering if Josh Green can reach all-star level...I wrote no chance,under the comments and said I'd be happy if he averaged 12ppg...most of the fans called me a Josh hater(which I'm not,I'm Just being realistic) ... he's a great athlete with low basketball IQ, poor handling and an average defender(he can guard SG but the SF are too big and strong for him)...he's only good on fast breaks,terrible on set ofense(because of poor handles, can't control his speed) ... everybody keeps mentioning his age but he's been in the league for 4 years and instead of making the leap,totaly regressed this season...he plays scared,with no confidence...I don't think he's mentaly Strong enough to become a valuable pieces

Green, Williams, Holmes,Kleber and Timmy are making rotation Players/starter money,yet basicaly none of them is a factor in most games

They probably aren't as bad as they've been playing and I think a coaching change would have been the biggest improvement this team could do...there aren't many options now(maybe Bud) ,but it's obvious Kidd isn't the man for this Job.. unfourtunately he's a Mavs legend and still has credit from that WCF run..they are probably gonna make a trade and then we'll get to hear how they need time to get to know each other and if/when the team will start to Play poor again,the blame will go on the role Players,not the coach

Mavs FO are masters at accumulating multiple MLE level contracts for bench players instead of investing money in starters, we went over this multiple times.

[41Dirk41]

Reviewed the 3 minutes Holmes played:
Smart 8' Driving Floating Jump Shot (10 PTS) -- GOOD Was boxing out Tillman
On the other end:
Hardaway Jr. 2' Cutting Layup Shot (2 PTS) (Holmes 1 AST) -- GREAT PLAY Made a perfect pass to cutter
Tillman REBOUND (Off:2 Def:2) -- BAD play, gave up offensive board
Irving Out of Bounds - Bad Pass Turnover Turnover (P1.T3) -- IRRELEVANT -- wasn't involved, Kyrie tries to hit Green cut
Kennard 3' Driving Floating Bank Jump Shot (5 PTS) (Roddy 1 AST) -- GOOD contest, Kennard made it anyway
Next play gets offensive board off Green miss, gets tied up, but won the jump ball, led to Hardy 3.


What exactly did Kidd see that resulted in yanking him is beyond me...

Kidd is just a moron, Holmes laughed at him when he came back to the bench after those 3 minutes.
He is not the answer but he can help and he is still better than Powell, Morris, other random no C guys who play C... And also it could be a good opportunity to increase his trade value.

Kidd is destroying the team and the value of its players. I hope the new owners can understand that because Cuban can't.

[Archx]

Kidd is just a moron, Holmes laughed at him when he came back to the bench after those 3 minutes.
He is not the answer but he can help and he is still better than Powell, Morris, other random no C guys who play C... And also it could be a good opportunity to increase his trade value.

Kidd is destroying the team and the value of its players. I hope the new owners can understand that because Cuban can't.

I was laughing when i saw Morris waiting to come in. I was like, wait are Mavs tanking? Why Morris? This is such a non serious team. Might aswell give OMax those 5 min runs or whatever...

[JWillTheFreak]

Not gonna win many games even against bad teams when you can't rebound and give teams second chance points all game. Plus your two best players had an average game shooting while rest of the team didn't add anything. Mavs just play to much iso ball btw luka and Ky its great when they make their tough shots but when they have an off day its not a good thing to watch.

[daoneandonly]

How is there even an argument now that Josh Green is good? Especially after playing Memphis.

He has always and will always be Desmond Bane's whipping boy.

[Swish77]

I expected 1 bad game during our 7 game home stand. We miss Lively alot and it showed last night.But on to the next game vs NYK.

[ejs78]

Kidd isn't going anywhere until Kyrie and mainly Luka want him gone. He wanted Carlisle a HOF coach gone and had some say in Kidd being here. Might be time for him to put his big pants on and realize nothing is easy.

As far as Holmes goes you can look on this board I was a big advocate of signing him over Powell for half the price when he went to the Suns. However he couldnt get run over Alex Len last year which had the coach of the year leading the squad. Would love to see him play, but it hasnt happened under two straight coaches and if he gets traded probably a third.

[Mavrelous]

However he couldnt get run over Alex Len last year which had the coach of the year leading the squad. Would love to see him play, but it hasnt happened under two straight coaches and if he gets traded probably a third.

Holmes is worse than I thought offensively, he really regressed since his 21 season, but his competition is Powell and Markieff, Mavs were bullied yesterday (and in other games), not playing him in this game was inexcusable.
If he does mistakes I'd understand, he had a great assist, and offensive board that led to a 3, he contested well, and had 1 mistake of allowing offensive board by not boxing out, man, what Grant Williams allowed was 10 times worse.
He played well against the Lakers also, he never really demonstrated a reason for him to be buried even when Lively was injured.
He did the Mavs a favour by waiving his trade kicker to increase the offer to Thybulle, he deserves better treatment, and if Kidd insists on defying the FO when it comes to guys he doesn't approve of, he should be shown the door regardless of what the 2 stars think.

[HMFFL]

Embarrassing loss! Proceed forward and look at what's next.

Go Mavs

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[41Dirk41]

Kidd isn't going anywhere until Kyrie and mainly Luka want him gone. He wanted Carlisle a HOF coach gone and had some say in Kidd being here. Might be time for him to put his big pants on and realize nothing is easy.

As far as Holmes goes you can look on this board I was a big advocate of signing him over Powell for half the price when he went to the Suns. However he couldnt get run over Alex Len last year which had the coach of the year leading the squad. Would love to see him play, but it hasnt happened under two straight coaches and if he gets traded probably a third.

You are right but , just like mod said, his competitor are not NBA caliber player... Probably Kidd has some personal issues with him. He is a ****.

[dirkules_41]

I been screaming it since summer.
Green is a low basketball IQ player. He runs fast at all times and plays sloppy. His defense is talked about way too much for me. He’s a small guy and definitely cant guard the bigger SG’s and SF’s
He doesn’t play calm at all and it will never change.
I’m 100% sure we could have gotten way more for him in the summer and it’s probably too late.

I am dying to get Replace Green, Hardy, and Powell with almost any player that plays high IQ basketball. THJ somehow is STILL on the team.

Happy to bundle them all and throw in Grant but what has Timmy done to you? He is what he is but he's arguably been our most consistent and reliable player after Luka this year.

Any player from the Knicks is a curse. It’s imperative that we unload him if we even want to sniff a chip. He def has saved the time when he has hot shooting but he MUST go. Plus he is probably the only player that can probably get us something of value. No team wants ANY of our roleplayers.

I'd quite happily take Hartenstein and/or Robinson as far as Knicks players go.

[ejs78]

However he couldnt get run over Alex Len last year which had the coach of the year leading the squad. Would love to see him play, but it hasnt happened under two straight coaches and if he gets traded probably a third.

Holmes is worse than I thought offensively, he really regressed since his 21 season, but his competition is Powell and Markieff, Mavs were bullied yesterday (and in other games), not playing him in this game was inexcusable.
If he does mistakes I'd understand, he had a great assist, and offensive board that led to a 3, he contested well, and had 1 mistake of allowing offensive board by not boxing out, man, what Grant Williams allowed was 10 times worse.
He played well against the Lakers also, he never really demonstrated a reason for him to be buried even when Lively was injured.
He did the Mavs a favour by waiving his trade kicker to increase the offer to Thybulle, he deserves better treatment, and if Kidd insists on defying the FO when it comes to guys he doesn't approve of, he should be shown the door regardless of what the 2 stars think.

Sure he like any other pro can have a good game (Like he did a couple times last year then went right back to DNP-CD), but 2 coaches regardless of what we think don't believe he's better than Powell and Len which says alot. Him waiving his kicker is a nothing burger as he wanted out of Sacramento even if the situation isn't any better and he was the tax on getting Omax so nothing was ever guaranteed to him by the FO/Kidd. Its wishful thinking at this point that Kidd is going anywhere with the team over .500 or until Luka wants him gone. Luka didnt like Rick cuz hes a prick so they went out and got a players coach....thats on him.

[Mavrelous]

Sure he like any other pro can have a good game (Like he did a couple times last year then went right back to DNP-CD), but 2 coaches regardless of what we think don't believe he's better than Powell and Len which says alot. Him waiving his kicker is a nothing burger as he wanted out of Sacramento even if the situation isn't any better and he was the tax on getting Omax so nothing was ever guaranteed to him by the FO/Kidd. Its wishful thinking at this point that Kidd is going anywhere with the team over .500 or until Luka wants him gone. Luka didnt like Rick cuz hes a prick so they went out and got a players coach....thats on him.

Well, they should first realize they shouldn't cater to 22 y/o wishes, especially with a championship level coach, serious franchises don't do that, Pat Riley told LeBron to pound sand when he asked to replace Spo.
Sacramento moved to totally different offense, Holmes isn't a good player, neither is Powell, Holmes wasn't effective in his new offense.
I'm watching the games, if there is a reason to bench him I wouldn't criticize it, there wasn't, the team collapsed with Grant Williams at the 5, wishful thinking or not, Kidd is messing up, big time.

[Mavrelous]

BTW there was a rumor that Luka already recommended his Real Madrid coach if Kidd is replaced, European coaches are the exact opposite of player coaches, I don't think Luka is attached to Kidd as we're making it out to be.

[41Dirk41]

BTW there was a rumor that Luka already recommended his Real Madrid coach if Kidd is replaced, European coaches are the exact opposite of player coaches, I don't think Luka is attached to Kidd as we're making it out to be.

Luka asked for Pablo Laso last year so i don't think he chose Kidd but probably he accepted

[BliscoSantos]

BTW there was a rumor that Luka already recommended his Real Madrid coach if Kidd is replaced, European coaches are the exact opposite of player coaches, I don't think Luka is attached to Kidd as we're making it out to be.

Luka asked for Pablo Laso last year so i don't think he chose Kidd but probably he accepted

Laso(or any euroleague coach) wouldn't work in the NBA because the Players are babies who run the show...remember Blatt in Cleveland?LeBron didn't like to be coaches,Just like in Miami the first season...NBA Players are crybabies,when something doesn't suit them they complains to their agent and FO

[ejs78]

Sure he like any other pro can have a good game (Like he did a couple times last year then went right back to DNP-CD), but 2 coaches regardless of what we think don't believe he's better than Powell and Len which says alot. Him waiving his kicker is a nothing burger as he wanted out of Sacramento even if the situation isn't any better and he was the tax on getting Omax so nothing was ever guaranteed to him by the FO/Kidd. Its wishful thinking at this point that Kidd is going anywhere with the team over .500 or until Luka wants him gone. Luka didnt like Rick cuz hes a prick so they went out and got a players coach....thats on him.

Well, they should first realize they shouldn't cater to 22 y/o wishes, especially with a championship level coach, serious franchises don't do that, Pat Riley told LeBron to pound sand when he asked to replace Spo.
Sacramento moved to totally different offense, Holmes isn't a good player, neither is Powell, Holmes wasn't effective in his new offense.
I'm watching the games, if there is a reason to bench him I wouldn't criticize it, there wasn't, the team collapsed with Grant Williams at the 5, wishful thinking or not, Kidd is messing up, big time.

Don't disagree but the players run the league its pretty simple. Yes Sacramento changed the offense after hiring Brown, but Holmes was also there when Walton was the coach and he too didnt play him or start him when Sabonis was out...kinda feels like we have seen enough now to realize hes just not going to play.

[41Dirk41]

BTW there was a rumor that Luka already recommended his Real Madrid coach if Kidd is replaced, European coaches are the exact opposite of player coaches, I don't think Luka is attached to Kidd as we're making it out to be.

Luka asked for Pablo Laso last year so i don't think he chose Kidd but probably he accepted

Laso(or any euroleague coach) wouldn't work in the NBA because the Players are babies who run the show...remember Blatt in Cleveland?LeBron didn't like to be coaches,Just like in Miami the first season...NBA Players are crybabies,when something doesn't suit them they complains to their agent and FO

Yes you are right but it happens when the FO are weak(and ours is very weak )... And Luka is a European player with European mindset so maybe it works.