RS 23/24 - Mavs @ Spurs (Tuesd., 8:30PMEST)

[Archx]

Do you believe that Kleber shooting 31% for 3 or 36% for 3 would make a difference?

His scoring averages would make a whooping jump from 4.3 to 4.5

This is a very casual fan mindset. Maxi Kleber is not a scorer. We do not expect him to be THJ either. His role is being a 3-pt threat. And occasionally making couple 3s. I dont care if he scores 5 ppg or 8 ppg. If he makes the 3-pt shots when its needed then that's a plus for role player.

Luka or Kyrie being +5 or -3 doesn't mean much. However, if you are +27 in a 6-pt game, then it shows you were not a negative. Some casual fans here don't know much about basketball and they think playing Kleber is not worth it because he only scored 5pts. Anyone understand basketball fundamentals would understand his role. Altough he is not doing as good as he used to be, yesterday night it helped the team.

A stretch 5 shooting like this, is not a stretch 5, it's really not hard to understand, not even for us casuals.

[ozwizard8]

Do you believe that Kleber shooting 31% for 3 or 36% for 3 would make a difference?

44% make us great and so memorable, is because he is suddenly super confident and becomes a volume 3PT shooters during that playoff time.

And that player could be Washington this year. His 3pts shooting will be crucial for Mavs. I hope Kleber plays and shoots as little as possible.

We expect PJ to fill the DFS role who was also shooting decently.

Based on matchup, Maxi can play 10 or 20 mpg, some PF and some C minutes.

Against TWolves, if Maxi plays and ramps up 3-point shooting to 40%, then it would kill Gobert's and Wolves' defensive upside.

[Bob8]

44% make us great and so memorable, is because he is suddenly super confident and becomes a volume 3PT shooters during that playoff time.

And that player could be Washington this year. His 3pts shooting will be crucial for Mavs. I hope Kleber plays and shoots as little as possible.

We expect PJ to fill the DFS role who was also shooting decently.

Based on matchup, Maxi can play 10 or 20 mpg, some PF and some C minutes.

Against TWolves, if Maxi plays and ramps up 3-point shooting to 40%, then it would kill Gobert's and Wolves' defensive upside.

He won't kill anyone, because he needs to be wide open for 3 seconds to even shoot.

[ozwizard8]

His scoring averages would make a whooping jump from 4.3 to 4.5

This is a very casual fan mindset. Maxi Kleber is not a scorer. We do not expect him to be THJ either. His role is being a 3-pt threat. And occasionally making couple 3s. I dont care if he scores 5 ppg or 8 ppg. If he makes the 3-pt shots when its needed then that's a plus for role player.

Luka or Kyrie being +5 or -3 doesn't mean much. However, if you are +27 in a 6-pt game, then it shows you were not a negative. Some casual fans here don't know much about basketball and they think playing Kleber is not worth it because he only scored 5pts. Anyone understand basketball fundamentals would understand his role. Altough he is not doing as good as he used to be, yesterday night it helped the team.

A stretch 5 shooting like this, is not a stretch 5, it's really not hard to understand, not even to us casuals.

The main argument is +27 shows he was not a negative against Spurs. Who cares how many 3pt he made? Only casual fans.

It is a casual mindset. Even without scoring 40%, a stretch-5 still takes other teams big men outside of the paint. Maxi Kleber is not sagged off like D.Powell or Nurkic.

***
We already acknowledge Maxi is not playing good this year. Not shooting good. So your picture is showing a below-average regular season shooting. Maxi shot much better in last 2 playoffs. He was 40% and 44%. I am optimistic that he can ramp up. No one can not guarantee it.

[Bob8]

This is a very casual fan mindset. Maxi Kleber is not a scorer. We do not expect him to be THJ either. His role is being a 3-pt threat. And occasionally making couple 3s. I dont care if he scores 5 ppg or 8 ppg. If he makes the 3-pt shots when its needed then that's a plus for role player.

Luka or Kyrie being +5 or -3 doesn't mean much. However, if you are +27 in a 6-pt game, then it shows you were not a negative. Some casual fans here don't know much about basketball and they think playing Kleber is not worth it because he only scored 5pts. Anyone understand basketball fundamentals would understand his role. Altough he is not doing as good as he used to be, yesterday night it helped the team.

A stretch 5 shooting like this, is not a stretch 5, it's really not hard to understand, not even to us casuals.

The main argument is +27 shows he was not a negative against Spurs. Who cares how many 3pt he made? Only casual fans.

It is a casual mindset. Even without scoring 40%, a stretch-5 still takes other teams big men outside of the paint. Maxi Kleber is not sagged off like D.Powell or Nurkic.

***
We already acknowledge Maxi is not playing good this year. Not shooting good. So your picture is showing a below-average regular season shooting. Maxi shot much better in last 2 playoffs. He was 40% and 44%. I am optimistic that he can ramp up. No one can not guarantee it.

The main problem is not his %, the problem is that he isn't shooting at all.

He made once 4 3s and 4x 2 3s, most of the times 0 3s.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/klebima01/gamelog/2024/

[ozwizard8]

And that player could be Washington this year. His 3pts shooting will be crucial for Mavs. I hope Kleber plays and shoots as little as possible.

We expect PJ to fill the DFS role who was also shooting decently.

Based on matchup, Maxi can play 10 or 20 mpg, some PF and some C minutes.

Against TWolves, if Maxi plays and ramps up 3-point shooting to 40%, then it would kill Gobert's and Wolves' defensive upside.

He won't kill anyone, because he needs to be wide open for 3 seconds to even shoot.

You can exaggerate as much as you want. The reality is Maxi's shot is fine for a big man. He takes big man out of the paint, and this helps Luka-Kyrie-Exum a lot.

Taking Gobert out crippled Jazz defense even when Luka was injured for 3 games. If Gobert is inside, then you can afford Conley and Mitchell's defensive woes but when Gobert is out, then you can abuse those disadvantages.

Casual fans may think Kleber did not score 30pts on Gobert or Wemby so he is not good. The reality is playing him against specific matchups helps Mavs offense. He is no savior but a decent role player. +27 yesterday was showing his value as a role player, which casual fans cannot comprehend easily.

[MassimoPayne]

Maxi hitting the three better is not helping himself when it comes to being a scoring thread or making a jump from 4.2ppg to 4.5ppg

But opponents need to defend him better at the three point line which helps our really good scorers because maxi is willing to pass and he is solid doing that.

He also does not have to hit 3 threes every game but the opponents need to fear that he could. That's all we need

[Bob8]

We expect PJ to fill the DFS role who was also shooting decently.

Based on matchup, Maxi can play 10 or 20 mpg, some PF and some C minutes.

Against TWolves, if Maxi plays and ramps up 3-point shooting to 40%, then it would kill Gobert's and Wolves' defensive upside.

He won't kill anyone, because he needs to be wide open for 3 seconds to even shoot.

You can exaggerate as much as you want. The reality is Maxi's shot is fine for a big man. He takes big man out of the paint, and this helps Luka-Kyrie-Exum a lot.

Taking Gobert out crippled Jazz defense even when Luka was injured for 3 games. If Gobert is inside, then you can afford Conley and Mitchell's defensive woes but when Gobert is out, then you can abuse those disadvantages.

Casual fans may think Kleber did not score 30pts on Gobert or Wemby so he is not good. The reality is playing him against specific matchups helps Mavs offense. He is no savior but a decent role player. +27 yesterday was showing his value as a role player, which casual fans cannot comprehend easily.

I'm talking about facts. He attempted 71 3s in the whole season.

[ozwizard8]

The main argument is +27 shows he was not a negative against Spurs. Who cares how many 3pt he made? Only casual fans.

It is a casual mindset. Even without scoring 40%, a stretch-5 still takes other teams big men outside of the paint. Maxi Kleber is not sagged off like D.Powell or Nurkic.

***
We already acknowledge Maxi is not playing good this year. Not shooting good. So your picture is showing a below-average regular season shooting. Maxi shot much better in last 2 playoffs. He was 40% and 44%. I am optimistic that he can ramp up. No one can not guarantee it.

The main problem is not his %, the problem is that he isn't shooting at all.

He made once 4 3s and 4x 2 3s, most of the times 0 3s.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/klebima01/gamelog/2024/

This is my point for yesterdays game. Maxi is not scoring 20 ppg, not trying 6 shots like THJ. That is fine as long as he provides spacing.

His role is to take the big man out of the paint while not being too bad on defense as small ball center. PJ can be used for this role as well but he would be worse as a Center.
Maxi is no saviour but he is useful role player. Without 25 pt game, he can put up a +27 in the box score on specific matchups.
Take Gobert out, take Chet-Wemby out. Put Nurkic on a pick and pop.

Lots of teams rely their centers to be on inside for their defensive schemes. Maxi is not a 48-minute material, but it is useful at 10-20mpg. If he ramps up the 3pt%, he'll be helpful for playoffs for sure.

[Bob8]

Maxi hitting the three better is not helping himself when it comes to being a scoring thread or making a jump from 4.2ppg to 4.5ppg

But opponents need to defend him better at the three point line which helps our really good scorers because maxi is willing to pass and he is solid doing that.

He also does not have to hit 3 threes every game but the opponents need to fear that he could. That's all we need

Mavs are leaving Giddey deliberately totally alone. Do you really believe anyone will defend Kleber in perimeter? Team's will double Luka and be careful about Kyrie, and be perfectly happy if Kleber gets the shot.

[Bob8]

The main argument is +27 shows he was not a negative against Spurs. Who cares how many 3pt he made? Only casual fans.

It is a casual mindset. Even without scoring 40%, a stretch-5 still takes other teams big men outside of the paint. Maxi Kleber is not sagged off like D.Powell or Nurkic.

***
We already acknowledge Maxi is not playing good this year. Not shooting good. So your picture is showing a below-average regular season shooting. Maxi shot much better in last 2 playoffs. He was 40% and 44%. I am optimistic that he can ramp up. No one can not guarantee it.

The main problem is not his %, the problem is that he isn't shooting at all.

He made once 4 3s and 4x 2 3s, most of the times 0 3s.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/klebima01/gamelog/2024/

This is my point for yesterdays game. Maxi is not scoring 20 ppg, not trying 6 shots like THJ. That is fine as long as he provides spacing.

His role is to take the big man out of the paint while not being too bad on defense as small ball center. PJ can be used for this role as well but he would be worse as a Center.
Maxi is no saviour but he is useful role player. Without 25 pt game, he can put up a +27 in the box score on specific matchups.
Take Gobert out, take Chet-Wemby out. Put Nurkic on a pick and pop.

Lots of teams rely their centers to be on inside for their defensive schemes. Maxi is not a 48-minute material, but it is useful at 10-20mpg. If he ramps up the 3pt%, he'll be helpful for playoffs for sure.

He would need first to start shooting, nobody cares if he makes 0.7 3 per game or 0.8 3 per game.

[ozwizard8]

He won't kill anyone, because he needs to be wide open for 3 seconds to even shoot.

You can exaggerate as much as you want. The reality is Maxi's shot is fine for a big man. He takes big man out of the paint, and this helps Luka-Kyrie-Exum a lot.

Taking Gobert out crippled Jazz defense even when Luka was injured for 3 games. If Gobert is inside, then you can afford Conley and Mitchell's defensive woes but when Gobert is out, then you can abuse those disadvantages.

Casual fans may think Kleber did not score 30pts on Gobert or Wemby so he is not good. The reality is playing him against specific matchups helps Mavs offense. He is no savior but a decent role player. +27 yesterday was showing his value as a role player, which casual fans cannot comprehend easily.

I'm talking about facts. He attempted 71 3s in the whole season.

You're proving you're a casual fan who do not understand basketball nor understand the roles in the team.
A basketball team doesn't need all players to score 20-30pts or take 5-6 3pt shots per game.

Maxi is a role player. Half of his role is playing as small-ball center. The idea is taking Gobert, Ayton, Nurkic, Wemby, Chet etc out of the paint and let Luka-Kyrie-Exum cook.

PJ can do this as a stretch-5 as well but he is worse as a center on the defensive side. (Maxi is not a good center either but better than PJ for that role). Sometimes you need a couple of minutes of better offense and kill the opponents' momentum.
Maxi at 22-playoffs was pretty good for a role player. And that's all Mavs need from him.

[ozwizard8]

Maxi hitting the three better is not helping himself when it comes to being a scoring thread or making a jump from 4.2ppg to 4.5ppg

But opponents need to defend him better at the three point line which helps our really good scorers because maxi is willing to pass and he is solid doing that.

He also does not have to hit 3 threes every game but the opponents need to fear that he could. That's all we need

Mavs are leaving Giddey deliberately totally alone. Do you really believe anyone will defend Kleber in perimeter?

You are learning but slowly. Giddey is left alone while Maxi is not. That is the whole point.
You leave Gobert, Nurkic alone in 3-pt line. You leave D.Powell alone. But they dont do this to Maxi. That was the reason he was +27.

Just playing a stretch-5 messed up the Spurs defense. +27 does not mean he is great, it just shows he was decent. His role is being there as stretch-5 and not being so bad on the defensive side.

[Bob8]

You can exaggerate as much as you want. The reality is Maxi's shot is fine for a big man. He takes big man out of the paint, and this helps Luka-Kyrie-Exum a lot.

Taking Gobert out crippled Jazz defense even when Luka was injured for 3 games. If Gobert is inside, then you can afford Conley and Mitchell's defensive woes but when Gobert is out, then you can abuse those disadvantages.

Casual fans may think Kleber did not score 30pts on Gobert or Wemby so he is not good. The reality is playing him against specific matchups helps Mavs offense. He is no savior but a decent role player. +27 yesterday was showing his value as a role player, which casual fans cannot comprehend easily.

I'm talking about facts. He attempted 71 3s in the whole season.

You're proving you're a casual fan who do not understand basketball nor understand the roles in the team.
A basketball team doesn't need all players to score 20-30pts or take 5-6 3pt shots per game.

Maxi is a role player. Half of his role is playing as small-ball center. The idea is taking Gobert, Ayton, Nurkic, Wemby, Chet etc out of the paint and let Luka-Kyrie-Exum cook.

PJ can do this as a stretch-5 as well but he is worse as a center on the defensive side. (Maxi is not a good center either but better than PJ for that role). Sometimes you need a couple of minutes of better offense and kill the opponents' momentum.
Maxi at 22-playoffs was pretty good for a role player. And that's all Mavs need from him.

I'm just explaining to you that Kleber's 3pts % doesn't matter, if he isn't shooting.

Coaches, vast majority of them, aren't complete morons so they for sure won't have players like Gobert on Kleber on perimeter leaving the paint totally open.

[Archx]

This is a very casual fan mindset. Maxi Kleber is not a scorer. We do not expect him to be THJ either. His role is being a 3-pt threat. And occasionally making couple 3s. I dont care if he scores 5 ppg or 8 ppg. If he makes the 3-pt shots when its needed then that's a plus for role player.

Luka or Kyrie being +5 or -3 doesn't mean much. However, if you are +27 in a 6-pt game, then it shows you were not a negative. Some casual fans here don't know much about basketball and they think playing Kleber is not worth it because he only scored 5pts. Anyone understand basketball fundamentals would understand his role. Altough he is not doing as good as he used to be, yesterday night it helped the team.

A stretch 5 shooting like this, is not a stretch 5, it's really not hard to understand, not even to us casuals.

The main argument is +27 shows he was not a negative against Spurs. Who cares how many 3pt he made? Only casual fans.

It is a casual mindset. Even without scoring 40%, a stretch-5 still takes other teams big men outside of the paint. Maxi Kleber is not sagged off like D.Powell or Nurkic.

***
We already acknowledge Maxi is not playing good this year. Not shooting good. So your picture is showing a below-average regular season shooting. Maxi shot much better in last 2 playoffs. He was 40% and 44%. I am optimistic that he can ramp up. No one can not guarantee it.

You're confusing yourself with +/- arguments and then call other people casuals. Now that's a great paradox. I already gave the +/- answer to other poster, so i'm not going to repeat myself over and over.

But i'll say this gain, doesn't matter if Maxi shoots 80% from range, Nuggets didn't respect his role, Spurs didn't respect his role because he's not taking those open looks. That's not an asset for the playoffs it's the opposite. PJ and DJJ are already playing their roles better than Maxi but Kidd is not playing DJJ for some reason in the clutch.

I also showed NETrtg lineups for Mavs, best lineups don't include Maxi for a reason. If you go down by minutes. Those lineups are

Min 60 mins
K. Irving - D. Jones Jr. - P. Washington - L. Doncic - D. Gafford +25

Min 70 mins
K. Irving - P. Washington - L. Doncic - J. Green - D. Lively II +13

Min 80 mins
K. Irving - P. Washington - L. Doncic - J. Green - D. Lively II +13

These are the highest minutes played lineups for Mavs. And it's horrible how many lineup changes they already had.

[ozwizard8]

Maxi hitting the three better is not helping himself when it comes to being a scoring thread or making a jump from 4.2ppg to 4.5ppg

But opponents need to defend him better at the three point line which helps our really good scorers because maxi is willing to pass and he is solid doing that.

He also does not have to hit 3 threes every game but the opponents need to fear that he could. That's all we need

Maxi shooting 40% from 3 would further help the spacing. Also in playoffs, so many players play worse so even a 1 more extra 3-pt made shot would be nice. We need PJ-Maxi to shoot better with more confidence.

I love the fact that Mavs have REAL CENTERS. No more Powell. They'll get 35-48 mpg of center minutes. Based on specific matchups, it makes sense to use a stretch-5. The idea is to use a stretch-5 to open the game for Luka-Kyrie-Exum at times. It may be a 4-minute stretch or a 7-minute stretch in the second half.

KP was injury-prone and rusty here. He was not a role player but a main piece. However, he got abused as a center here. He was too slow and too weak most of the time so he couldn't play much C minutes.

Wood was also a volume scoring stretch-5. He sucked big time on defense. On offense he also did not follow up the sets played. Luka-Kidd was often frustrated with him.

Maxi is not a starter level player but he is a role player for that stretch-5 role. He needs to get in form to be better on defense and Kidd needs to use him strategically against specific matchups.

[Bob8]

Maxi hitting the three better is not helping himself when it comes to being a scoring thread or making a jump from 4.2ppg to 4.5ppg

But opponents need to defend him better at the three point line which helps our really good scorers because maxi is willing to pass and he is solid doing that.

He also does not have to hit 3 threes every game but the opponents need to fear that he could. That's all we need

Maxi shooting 40% from 3 would further help the spacing. Also in playoffs, so many players play worse so even a 1 more extra 3-pt made shot would be nice. We need PJ-Maxi to shoot better with more confidence.

I love the fact that Mavs have REAL CENTERS. No more Powell. They'll get 35-48 mpg of center minutes. Based on specific matchups, it makes sense to use a stretch-5. The idea is to use a stretch-5 to open the game for Luka-Kyrie-Exum at times. It may be a 4-minute stretch or a 7-minute stretch in the second half.

KP was injury-prone and rusty here. He was not a role player but a main piece. However, he got abused as a center here. He was too slow and too weak most of the time so he couldn't play much C minutes.

Wood was also a volume scoring stretch-5. He sucked big time on defense. On offense he also did not follow up the sets played. Luka-Kidd was often frustrated with him.

Maxi is not a starter level player but he is a role player for that stretch-5 role. He needs to get in form to be better on defense and Kidd needs to use him strategically against specific matchups.

He would need to shoot 80% for 3 to average 1 3 more.

[ozwizard8]

I'm talking about facts. He attempted 71 3s in the whole season.

You're proving you're a casual fan who do not understand basketball nor understand the roles in the team.
A basketball team doesn't need all players to score 20-30pts or take 5-6 3pt shots per game.

Maxi is a role player. Half of his role is playing as small-ball center. The idea is taking Gobert, Ayton, Nurkic, Wemby, Chet etc out of the paint and let Luka-Kyrie-Exum cook.

PJ can do this as a stretch-5 as well but he is worse as a center on the defensive side. (Maxi is not a good center either but better than PJ for that role). Sometimes you need a couple of minutes of better offense and kill the opponents' momentum.
Maxi at 22-playoffs was pretty good for a role player. And that's all Mavs need from him.

I'm just explaining to you that Kleber's 3pts % doesn't matter, if he isn't shooting.

Coaches, vast majority of them, aren't complete morons so they for sure won't have players like Gobert on Kleber on perimeter leaving the paint totally open.

Coaches do that. It happened in playoffs with Gobert anyway. Many teams use this against Gobert in playoffs. Thats the reason Gobert sucks in playoffs.
Its not always as simple as Maxi or other stretch-5 making too many 3s. Teams need to cover these stretch-5s. They cannot bring help from 3pt line like they do inside. If you have Powell or other conventional center sitting inside, then teams can bring help from different angles.
Anyway, its well-proven that playing stretch-5 helps offenses. It sometimes forces other teams to go small and take their traditional center out which happened in Jazz series. The important part is whether your stretch-5 can be below-averege on defense. KP was too weak, too slow here, Wood sucked on defense so they're not effective.
Maxi is no saviour but he is useful for 10-20mpg based on specific matchups.

[Bob8]

You're proving you're a casual fan who do not understand basketball nor understand the roles in the team.
A basketball team doesn't need all players to score 20-30pts or take 5-6 3pt shots per game.

Maxi is a role player. Half of his role is playing as small-ball center. The idea is taking Gobert, Ayton, Nurkic, Wemby, Chet etc out of the paint and let Luka-Kyrie-Exum cook.

PJ can do this as a stretch-5 as well but he is worse as a center on the defensive side. (Maxi is not a good center either but better than PJ for that role). Sometimes you need a couple of minutes of better offense and kill the opponents' momentum.
Maxi at 22-playoffs was pretty good for a role player. And that's all Mavs need from him.

I'm just explaining to you that Kleber's 3pts % doesn't matter, if he isn't shooting.

Coaches, vast majority of them, aren't complete morons so they for sure won't have players like Gobert on Kleber on perimeter leaving the paint totally open.

Coaches do that. It happened in playoffs with Gobert anyway. Many teams use this against Gobert in playoffs. Thats the reason Gobert sucks in playoffs.
Its not always as simple as Maxi or other stretch-5 making too many 3s. Teams need to cover these stretch-5s. They cannot bring help from 3pt line like they do inside. If you have Powell or other conventional center sitting inside, then teams can bring help from different angles.
Anyway, its well-proven that playing stretch-5 helps offenses. It sometimes forces other teams to go small and take their traditional center out which happened in Jazz series. The important part is whether your stretch-5 can be below-averege on defense. KP was too weak, too slow here, Wood sucked on defense so they're not effective.
Maxi is no saviour but he is useful for 10-20mpg based on specific matchups.

We understand theory, but are trying to explain to you that the player, who's averaging 4 points and 0.7 3s is not the player that will bring defensive C out of the paint.

[Mavrelous]

We understand theory, but are trying to explain to you that the player, who's averaging 4 points and 0.7 3s is not the player that will bring defensive C out of the paint.

Check his numbers in April 2022, and then check his numbers in games 2+3 against UTA when Gobert didn't leave the paint for him.
Maxi may very well be cooked, but until it's certain, he's the team's only hope as a stretch and they may need a stretch 5.