2013 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread

Graham's Cracker · Post #286 » by **Graham's Cracker** » Sun May 19, 2013 12:32 pm

Norris was hitting 97-98 on the gun last night. Justin Jackson worked another scoreless inning but gave up two baserunners.

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s e n s i · Post #287 » by **s e n s i** » Sun May 19, 2013 7:43 pm

so marcus stroman is kind of good

John Lott ‏@LottOnBaseball 17m

In his 2013 debut with New Hampshire, Marcus Stroman 5IP/4H/0R/1BB/6K. Commence jumping to conclusions.

dagger · Post #288 » by **dagger** » Sun May 19, 2013 9:46 pm

s e n s i wrote:so marcus stroman is kind of good

John Lott ‏@LottOnBaseball 17m

In his 2013 debut with New Hampshire, Marcus Stroman 5IP/4H/0R/1BB/6K. Commence jumping to conclusions.

He threw 90 pitches. He was utterly dominant the first 2.2 innings, then I think he began to waver a bit. Never got in serious trouble but 90 pitches is more than he has ever thrown in one game as a pro. He had a tendency to get ahead of batters, 0-2 and 1-2, and not finish them off, turned too many of those into 3-2 counts for my liking. I think he needs innings, lots of innings, and a little more challenge like maybe being a rotation pitcher in Buffalo where the starting rotation has been awful of late, in part because so many pitchers have been promoted to the Jays, never to return.

dagger · Post #289 » by **dagger** » Sun May 19, 2013 10:03 pm

in other games, BUF beat Charlotte 11-6 as our old friend Zack Stewart had a Ricky Romero like start giving up 11 hits and two walks in five innings for the Knights (I so much want to call them the Hornets... LOL). David Purcey also pitched two innings for CHA, so it was a Jays homecoming.

For the Bison, Todd Redmond, another one of AA's waiver wire pickups, got a whooping, giving up six hits, five runs, two walks in 3,1, but on a positive not, John Stilson made his AAA debut with two innings of no-hot scoreless relief, giving up only a pair of walks and striking out 3. Offensively for BUF, it weas mainly Inspector Renaud's usual suspects: Negrych 3-5, Sierra 3-5, Thole 2-4, Luis Jimenez 2-3. Sierra also threw out Gordon Beckham, he of White Sox rehab fame, trying to stretch a single.

New Hampshire made it to .500 behind Stroman, Dunedin won 3-1, and Lansing won 7-3. Of the notable prospects in those wins, Dwight Smith Jr was 3-5 for Lansing, in his last 10 games he's hitting .350 with an .OPS of .935

flatjacket1 · Post #290 » by **flatjacket1** » Sun May 19, 2013 11:31 pm

Graham's Cracker wrote:Norris was hitting 97-98 on the gun last night. Justin Jackson worked another scoreless inning but gave up two baserunners.

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The Lansing gun is so juiced. One of my friends that was a high-80's pitcher hit 94-96 on Lansing gun, and his parents called him right after the game because they heard and he said everybody experienced a velocity jump on the parks gun.

dagger · Post #291 » by **dagger** » Sun May 19, 2013 11:49 pm

flatjacket1 wrote:
Graham's Cracker wrote:Norris was hitting 97-98 on the gun last night. Justin Jackson worked another scoreless inning but gave up two baserunners.

Sent from my LG-P880g using RealGM Forums mobile app

The Lansing gun is so juiced. One of my friends that was a high-80's pitcher hit 94-96 on Lansing gun, and his parents called him right after the game because they heard and he said everybody experienced a velocity jump on the parks gun.

Was that this year?

flatjacket1 · Post #292 » by **flatjacket1** » Sun May 19, 2013 11:54 pm

dagger wrote:Was that this year?

It was 2012 but I don't remember hearing it has been fixed. It's been notoriously juiced ever since Syndergaard hit triple digits.

dagger · Post #293 » by **dagger** » Mon May 20, 2013 12:16 am

flatjacket1 wrote:
dagger wrote:Was that this year?

It was 2012 but I don't remember hearing it has been fixed. It's been notoriously juiced ever since Syndergaard hit triple digits.

Interesting indeed, but I guess to get 7K over 4IP, Norris had to be in the low 90s at a minimum.

Anyway, here's a short feature update on Sean Nolin after his game yesterday. With Stroman today and even Deck McGuire showing some signs of life, the New Hampshire rotation is starting to get interesting to watch. Also, Marcus Walden.

http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ym ... b&sid=milb

flatjacket1 · Post #294 » by **flatjacket1** » Mon May 20, 2013 12:31 am

dagger wrote:
flatjacket1 wrote:
dagger wrote:Was that this year?

It was 2012 but I don't remember hearing it has been fixed. It's been notoriously juiced ever since Syndergaard hit triple digits.

Interesting indeed, but I guess to get 7K over 4IP, Norris had to be in the low 90s at a minimum.

Velocity means very little in baseball. Having it helps but you can throw 100 and suck or throw 85 and kick butt. Mixing speeds, framing/calling behind the plate, confidence, and/or having a dominant pitch that day is what strikes guys out. Considering he only had 2 fly balls and 1 line drive through 4 IP it seems they weren't able to square up his stuff.

Sure you probably think I'm crazy for saying velocity means very little, and want to call up all type of names like Verlander and Pineda, but velocity is a great add on, not a foundation. If you throw with great movement at 95 MPH, you'll obviously get a lot of K's. If you throw 85 MPH with great movement, you are still a good pitcher. At this level (MLB) anybody can turn around a straight as an arrow 100 MPH fastball. Don't believe me? Justin Verlander allowed 8 ER in his last start, over only 2.2 innings.

Some days pitchers come in and they find one of their pitches to be nasty. Sometimes a 4 seamer will dance and a 2 seamer will look like a slider but cutting inside to righties (RHP). Pitchers catch on early and stick to whats working. Pitching is really just making do with what you have.

dagger · Post #295 » by **dagger** » Mon May 20, 2013 12:50 am

flatjacket1 wrote:
dagger wrote:
flatjacket1 wrote:
It was 2012 but I don't remember hearing it has been fixed. It's been notoriously juiced ever since Syndergaard hit triple digits.

Interesting indeed, but I guess to get 7K over 4IP, Norris had to be in the low 90s at a minimum.

Velocity means very little in baseball. Having it helps but you can throw 100 and suck or throw 85 and kick butt. Mixing speeds, framing/calling behind the plate, confidence, and/or having a dominant pitch that day is what strikes guys out. Considering he only had 2 fly balls and 1 line drive through 4 IP it seems they weren't able to square up his stuff.

Sure you probably think I'm crazy for saying velocity means very little, and want to call up all type of names like Verlander and Pineda, but velocity is a great add on, not a foundation. If you throw with great movement at 95 MPH, you'll obviously get a lot of K's. If you throw 85 MPH with great movement, you are still a good pitcher. At this level (MLB) anybody can turn around a straight as an arrow 100 MPH fastball. Don't believe me? Justin Verlander allowed 8 ER in his last start, over only 2.2 innings.

Some days pitchers come in and they find one of their pitches to be nasty. Sometimes a 4 seamer will dance and a 2 seamer will look like a slider but cutting inside to righties (RHP). Pitchers catch on early and stick to whats working. Pitching is really just making do with what you have.

i agree, we tend to obsess about velocity, in part because with prospects, pre-draft or in their first couple of years, speed is what stands out. The mastery of variables speeds, and location, tends to develop over time. I'm reasonably comfortable in believing that Norris, with his lack of success until recently, is showing good velocity with a little better location because it would be hard to master the nuances you speak of from one game to the next and this was really just his second good game (in succession) of this season.

But I am general agreement, and point to guys I have made a policy to follow who have been essentially ignored by most on this board precisely because they didn't have overwhelming stuff. Guile, consistency, confidence, smarts, are factors that aren't easily measured on a speed gun, and tend not to get you on Baseball America's Top 100 list. But then look at a guy like Sean Nolin who does nothing but win, win, win, moves up a level and wins again, and does it by attacking hitters, commanding corners and keeping them off balance with a variety of pitches. (Being a LHP hasn't hurt). I'd guess that 90% of the people here who assiduously follow our prospects still don't believe Nolin will amount to anything at the major league level, and they may be right, but it's fun watching an off-the-radar guy force his way into the discussion, with AA even suggesting he'll get to the Jays for at least a trial start very soon.

Graham's Cracker · Post #296 » by **Graham's Cracker** » Mon May 20, 2013 1:39 am

flatjacket1 wrote:
Graham's Cracker wrote:Norris was hitting 97-98 on the gun last night. Justin Jackson worked another scoreless inning but gave up two baserunners.

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The Lansing gun is so juiced. One of my friends that was a high-80's pitcher hit 94-96 on Lansing gun, and his parents called him right after the game because they heard and he said everybody experienced a velocity jump on the parks gun.

I read (I think Gerry McDonald) say that the Jays integrated the guns with Pitchfx at all affiliate parks this year but I know the Lansing gun is inaccurate as confirmed by numerous sources.

Graham's Cracker · Post #297 » by **Graham's Cracker** » Mon May 20, 2013 2:09 am

If Gustavo Pierre could take an occasional (and I mean occasional) walk and play better D we might have something there. He's batting 270 with a slg of 467 but he has a K:BB of the 0:39 and 14 errors in 31 games with an .811 fielding pct.

dagger · Post #298 » by **dagger** » Mon May 20, 2013 2:15 am

Graham's Cracker wrote:If Gustavo Pierre could take an occasional (and I mean occasional) walk and play better D we might have something there. He's batting 270 with a slg of 467 but he has a K:BB of the 0:39 and 14 errors in 31 games with an .811 fielding pct.

I don't know, we have a catcher with two walks for the season and a K:BB almost as bad, with a .240 OBP and he hit cleanup yesterday for the Jays. The errors are another matter.

turtle_15 · Post #299 » by **turtle_15** » Mon May 20, 2013 5:40 am

Graham's Cracker wrote:Norris was hitting 97-98 on the gun last night. Justin Jackson worked another scoreless inning but gave up two baserunners.

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Do you know or anyone else know what was the velocity on Justin Jackson's fastball, and also what types of pitches he has???

Graham's Cracker · Post #300 » by **Graham's Cracker** » Mon May 20, 2013 1:03 pm

turtle_15 wrote:
Graham's Cracker wrote:Norris was hitting 97-98 on the gun last night. Justin Jackson worked another scoreless inning but gave up two baserunners.

Sent from my LG-P880g using RealGM Forums mobile app

Do you know or anyone else know what was the velocity on Justin Jackson's fastball, and also what types of pitches he has???

The Lansing play-by-play man said he was touching the low 90's. As discussed earlier, the radar gun is notoriously inaccurate. Over at Battersbox there was a good scouting report of his repertoire by someone that goes to the games in Lansing. He's obviously a major project.

Graham's Cracker · Post #301 » by **Graham's Cracker** » Mon May 20, 2013 1:09 pm

dagger wrote:
Graham's Cracker wrote:If Gustavo Pierre could take an occasional (and I mean occasional) walk and play better D we might have something there. He's batting 270 with a slg of 467 but he has a K:BB of the 0:39 and 14 errors in 31 games with an .811 fielding pct.

I don't know, we have a catcher with two walks for the season and a K:BB almost as bad, with a .240 OBP and he hit cleanup yesterday for the Jays. The errors are another matter.

Touche.

dagger · Post #302 » by **dagger** » Mon May 20, 2013 6:23 pm

I'll stick this here, don't want to make a separate thread

kyle drabek ‏@kyledrabek4
Good first live bullpen today... First time seeing someone in the box since June haha can't wait to be 100%

chhoon · Post #303 » by **chhoon** » Mon May 20, 2013 11:55 pm

when can we expect stroman to be ready for the big leagues?? i can't wait to see this guy develop either a starter or closer

dagger · Post #304 » by **dagger** » Tue May 21, 2013 12:48 am

chhoon wrote:when can we expect stroman to be ready for the big leagues?? i can't wait to see this guy develop either a starter or closer

My guess is that depends on the ML roster. Josh Johnson had a rehab start today in Dunedin, 3 innings, 1 run earned (single/SB/single), 0 walks, 5 ks. Happ is about a month away. Drabek and Hutchinson are starting to throw more than long toss. Drabek threw off the mound today. And Stroman needs innings. They are starting him in part to get him guaranteed innings, and to see how he handles starting. So he needs at the very least a few minor league starts, and probably more. Stroman could move to Buffalo first, where the starting pitching staff is rather weak and needs bolstering. There is no need to rush him. At the latest, we're probably seeing him as a September callup, or a candidate for the 25-man roster next spring. They don't want to do what they are doing to Chad Jenkins, who hasn't pitched for 10 days and really needs starts and innings himself.

Now, if the Jays aren't somehow in playoff contention before the trade deadline, a pitcher like Johnson could be dealt, maybe Dickey, too, and that would open up starter spots. The other issue with Stroman is competition from Jenkins and Sean Nolin. AA is talking up Nolin as if he is the next prospect call up.

Schad · Post #305 » by **Schad** » Tue May 21, 2013 12:58 am

Graham's Cracker wrote:If Gustavo Pierre could take an occasional (and I mean occasional) walk and play better D we might have something there. He's batting 270 with a slg of 467 but he has a K:BB of the 0:39 and 14 errors in 31 games with an .811 fielding pct.

I've pretty much given up on Pierre. He's a hot mess defensively at either SS or 3B, which means that a corner OF position is a likely destination. Or would be, if his hitting merited it.