Is Votto The Reason We Aren't Signing Fielder?

[UN-Owen]

What if the Jays intend to sign Votto when he becomes a FA in 2 years?

Should the Jays still sign Fielder?

Will Fielder be content as a full time DH before he reaches 30?

Do the Jays want a 29 year old DH making 25 million a season?

(keeping him as a DH would likely prolong his prime by a season or two)

Perhaps AA sees JPA as our DH of the future

Fast forward 3 years and who's the better value at DH? Fielder @ 25 million or JPA @ 5


For obvious reasons, it makes much more sense for the Jays to invest in Votto instead of Fielder

So when AA says the Jays will be spenders when the time is right, maybe he's referring to Votto, who would easily become the most popular athlete in Toronto

[Waylon Mercy]

Having Fielder and Votto wouldn't be a bad problem...

But Fielder is attainable right now and Votto in the future is kind of dicey who knows what
happens 2 years from now.

If we get Fielder though Votto won't be our major concern. Getting an Ace would be our
number 1 priority.

[UN-Owen]

Having Fielder and Votto wouldn't be a bad problem...

But Fielder is attainable right now and Votto in the future is kind of dicey who knows what
happens 2 years from now.

If we get Fielder though Votto won't be our major concern. Getting an Ace would be our
number 1 priority.

Having Fielder and Votto on the same team is a problem if the 29 year old Fielder doesn't want to be a full time DH

If Fielder demanded a trade, what would his trade value be 2 years from now with 150 million still owed to him?

I'm not at all against having Votto, Bautista and Fielder bat 2,3,4 in our lineup some day, I'm just asking some fairly obvious questions that need to be addressed


Bottom line, the Blue Jays are a business and one would have think Votto would generate far more revenue for the team than Fielder would

[Waylon Mercy]

Having Fielder and Votto wouldn't be a bad problem...

But Fielder is attainable right now and Votto in the future is kind of dicey who knows what
happens 2 years from now.

If we get Fielder though Votto won't be our major concern. Getting an Ace would be our
number 1 priority.

Having Fielder and Votto on the same team is a problem if the 29 year old Fielder doesn't want to be a full time DH

If Fielder demanded a trade, what would his trade value be 2 years from now with 150 million still owed to him?

I'm not at all against having Votto, Bautista and Fielder bat 2,3,4 in our lineup some day, I'm just asking some fairly obvious questions that need to be addressed


Bottom line, the Blue Jays are a business and one would have think Votto would generate far more revenue for the team than Fielder would

Well hypothetically speaking who knows how Fielder would feel? Maybe they could spilt the
time at 1B 50/50?

And if we wanted to trade Fielder why do you think it would be hard to get out of his contract?
We got Napoli for Vernon Wells who sucks and the Raptors were able to get out of
Turkoglus contract a guy who got caught faking being sick to go to a night club and was seen
on tape not giving 100%. And after Phoenix got him and he continued to suck they were able to
still trade him.

This is why the Jays shouldn't be so obsessed about worring about giving Fielder a lot of years
how many times do players stay for the duration of their contracts and if for whatever reason
they want to trade him there is always someone out there willing to take a chance on
them even guys like Wells and Turkoglu.

With all this said its highly unlikely Rogers will sign one of these guys let alone both of them.

[baulderdash77]

The short answer is NO!

We're just being cheap and now we're going to cling to "the plan" and financial prudence and the lack of revenue sharing going forward. We'll justify this by saying it's not in our philosophy to give guys more than 5 year contracts.

This is a big wet blanket that AA is throwing on us after all the talk of a $120 million payroll.

[kavan]

Probably not we just dont want to spend from the likes of it.

[Rhettmatic]

Let's not work so hard to devise excuses for Rogers' cheap ways.

[ItsDanger]

Id be more concerned about CF & 2B at this pt than signing Fielder. Fielder carries a LOT of risk and I would avoid signing him as well.

[Waylon Mercy]

Id be more concerned about CF & 2B at this pt than signing Fielder. Fielder carries a LOT of risk and I would avoid signing him as well.

No star 2B and CF are available

[Skin Blues]

With Rasmus and Gose, CF is the last position they're going to look for upgrades. Fielder has a lot of risk, but it's just money. The whole point of having moeny is to spend it. It's always going to be cheaper to develop prospects for 5 years and trade them for cheap contracts, and sign guys for 2 or 3 year deals, but that only gets you so far. At some point you ahve to take risks. If he plays well for 4 or 5 years and then tanks in the last few years of his deal, I can live with that. 4 or 5 great years of baseball and then a few rebuilding years peppered in, big deal. better than consistently winning 80-something games and going nowhere.

[ItsDanger]

In our situation, in order to beat the competition, pitching is more important than offense. If we had a very good top 3 in the rotation, then Id say go for it. Probloem AA has is that we dont really know what Morrow or Drabek are. #4 starters or better?

[jrsmith]

Lack of competitive drive from ownership/management and massive cheapness is the only reason Fielder won't be signed.

Considering other players, preferring the trade route, conflicting positions, etc are all laughable attempts at filling seats.

[MGD24]

Is this a serious thread?!

I don't know why everyone thinks we are getting Votto. We aren't.
and there is no way they won't sign Fielder to wait for Votto to hit the FA market in 2 years lol

[Parataxis]

Did you buy shares in Kool-Aid before making this post?

A few - very obvious- points.

i) Having Fielder, Bautista, and Votto is not a bad problem to have.
ii) We're not guaranteed to get Votto (not even close), so screwing ourselves now to avoid a potential abundance in two years is beyond stupid.
iii) If Fielder does refuse to play DH (he won't) when Votto comes, you suspend and fine him for disobeying the manager.
iv) If he demands a trade, you can trade him - he's a power hitting 1B, lots of teams will be interested. Worst case scenario, you need to give him away for next to nothing - what have you lost? Nothing.

[LBJSeizedMyID]

There's no way to know if Votto would even be a free agent then and the fact that Fielder is a true #4 hitter while Votto is a #3. We need someone to protect Jose. Someone that will instill the fear that if you walk Bautista you risk surrendering at least a two run homerun. While Votto is the more complete player, Votto doesn't exactly scream homerun every time he's up to bat. Fielder does.

[UN-Owen]

Recent history has shown that big name players almost always hit the market as a FA, so it's very likely that Votto is up for grabs 2 years from now

I don't own shares in Kool-Aid

At no point did I say the Jays shouldn't sign Fielder

I'm simply trying to analyze the situation from the perspective of the front office and then offering a possible rationale for their hesitancy to sign Fielder. I'm not making excuses


Lastly, one of the questions in the OP has yet to be addressed:

3 years from now, who's the better value at DH? Fielder @25 million or JPA @5

Would you rather Fielder @25 million or JPA @5 and a stud pitcher @20

[LBJSeizedMyID]

You are correct, but if the Reds aren't in contention this year, he'll be moved for a lot in return.

I said the Jays should sign Fielder. The Jays need a legit #4 hitter. Votto in my eyes isn't.

JPA will be used as trade bait. He has more value to a team as a catcher and can fetch a lot more in return then us using him at DH.

[UN-Owen]

You are correct, but if the Reds aren't in contention this year, he'll be moved for a lot in return.

I said the Jays should sign Fielder. The Jays need a legit #4 hitter. Votto in my eyes isn't.

JPA will be used as trade bait. He has more value to a team as a catcher and can fetch a lot more in return then us using him at DH.

I think you're splitting hairs with the whole #3 vs. #4 hitter argument

Even if Votto is moved next season, that doesn't guarantee he won't hit the market a year later

What type of return can we expect for JPA?

[LBJSeizedMyID]

Quite possibly but traditional #4 hitters are the big boppers. I want a guy that will instill the fear of "if you walk Bautista there's a good chance you're going to surrender a homerun."

With Votto its "if you walk Bautista there's a good chance you're going to surrender a base hit. Possibly a homerun." Unless you ask Bautista to move to the four spot.

As for JPA, all depends if he can take another step forward.

[UN-Owen]

Quite possibly but traditional #4 hitters are the big boppers. I want a guy that will instill the fear of "if you walk Bautista there's a good chance you're going to surrender a homerun."

With Votto its "if you walk Bautista there's a good chance you're going to surrender a base hit. Possibly a homerun." Unless you ask Bautista to move to the four spot.

As for JPA, all depends if he can take another step forward.

Fielder has averaged about 7 - 8 more homeruns per year than Votto over the last 4 seasons

I'm not sure an extra HR per month is that big a deal