ST: Blue Jays @ Twins April 15-17

Idontknowurlife · Post #481 » by **Idontknowurlife** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:48 am

Gibby is horrible. Why does he manage the bullpen like it's an allstar game? Does he know you don't have to use every available pitcher? And don't get me started about why in the world goins is playing.

Wo1verine · Post #482 » by **Wo1verine** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:48 am

spykelee wrote:6 runs on 1 hit, **** atrocious.

Don't worry they will use the cold as some legit excuse while completely forgetting they won the first game in similar weather.

BigLeagueChew · Post #483 » by **BigLeagueChew** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:51 am

Michael Bradley wrote:The issue with going to Delabar in the 8th was that Cecil only threw 2 pitches in the 7th. So he burned arguably his best reliever, who is not a LOOGY by any stretch of the imagination, rather than keep him for another inning (at least until the first sign of trouble, then you bring Delabar in). One of my pet peeves is burning a high leverage reliever for one batter. It's one thing if it is a LOOGY who is in to get a tough lefty out, but not if it's one of your top relievers.

If Delabar and Santos pitch relatively clean 8th and 9th innings, then this isn't a discussion, but it's still a questionable move to make.

In hindsight, if the plan was to use a lefty against one batter they should have probably used Happ earlier and saved Cecil and Delabar like you said. We also could have stayed with Loup another inning who recorded 6 outs rather easily.

Randle McMurphy · Post #484 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:52 am

Santoki wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:
makaveli191 wrote:Ugly half inning there. I don't see what Gibbons did wrong. You have to expect two major league relievers will throw strikes and get batters out
Makes no sense to blame the manager for actually using his two best relievers in the biggest spot in the game. People are just upset. Even with their suspect FB command, nobody could have expected that.

The moment Delabar came into the game I questioned the decision. Does that still make it an emotional reaction? If you watch this team you know the back end of the pen has been getting away with a lot lately and it didn't surprise me in the least that they blew it. How they did it was shocking but not the result.

That's fine, but Cecil and Delabar are pretty equivalent relievers in terms of quality. And if you're looking in terms of a RHB matchup, you want Delabar in there.

You can debate whether you would have left Cecil in (I would have, if only to face the lone lefty that was due up that inning), but there's no real mistake in bringing a reliever of that quality. It's not like John Farrell going to scrubs here over Jason Frasor and Janssen.

Wo1verine · Post #485 » by **Wo1verine** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:53 am

What's our record in CLE the last 3-4 years? Other than perhaps last year,i don't think we win much there?

dagger · Post #486 » by **dagger** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:56 am

This is the 2014 Jays: A .500 or less mediocrity with a few outstanding talents. Too many holes. Two starters today who couldn't keep the team in the game long enough, a big hole at second that could have been filled if ownership had allowed a bit more spending... A farm system that cannot help much yet when we lose decent contributing players like Izturis and Lind...

Randle McMurphy · Post #487 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:01 am

Michael Bradley wrote:The issue with going to Delabar in the 8th was that Cecil only threw 2 pitches in the 7th. [bSo he burned arguably his best reliever, who is not a LOOGY by any stretch of the imagination, rather than keep him for another inning (at least until the first sign of trouble, then you bring Delabar in).

Cecil isn't actually better than either Delabar or Santos, though. Better against LHP, yes. You'd be hard pressed to find anybody better against lefties than him. But overall (and against RHBs), you can very easily argue for the other two. You can't really make a "mistake" by using either of them.

Wo1verine · Post #488 » by **Wo1verine** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:02 am

I just hope when this team proves not to be good enough they do a Boston style rebuild AKA - trade guys like Dickey, Buehrle, Rasmus, a couple bullpen arms and keep whatever young players we can get and use the saved cash on free agency.

rarefind · Post #489 » by **rarefind** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:04 am

Kevin Gregg esque.

Michael Bradley · Post #490 » by **Michael Bradley** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:04 am

dagger wrote:This is the 2014 Jays: A .500 or less mediocrity with a few outstanding talents. Too many holes. Two starters today who couldn't keep the team in the game long enough, a big hole at second that could have been filled if ownership had allowed a bit more spending... A farm system that cannot help much yet when we lose decent contributing players like Izturis and Lind...

I had them pegged as an 80-85 win team this season (+/- 80 wins depending on health and luck) and unfortunately that's how they have played so far. Still way too early to panic (or get excited if anyone was during their 8-6 start), but I have a feeling we'll see a very streaky team this season.

They should have upgraded the roster. I know that's stating the obvious, but doing absolutely nothing was a huge waste.

Randle McMurphy · Post #491 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:05 am

dagger wrote:This is the 2014 Jays: A .500 or less mediocrity with a few outstanding talents. Too many holes. Two starters today who couldn't keep the team in the game long enough, a big hole at second that could have been filled if ownership had allowed a bit more spending... A farm system that cannot help much yet when we lose decent contributing players like Izturis and Lind...

Well, Izturis isn't a decent contributing player, he put up one of the worst seasons in Jays history last year. I assume you meant Reyes?

But other than that, you're not far off. The real problem with the 2014 Jays is their lack of depth on a team with injury prone players. We're already seeing the effects of it in the replacements to Reyes and Lind. It's what is probably going to keep an otherwise talented team out of contention.

Regulator · Post #492 » by **Regulator** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:05 am

No real ace in the pitching staff won't get you playoffs.. Let alone a championship. We use to have some nice home grown talent like Haliday and Carpenter.... Wtf do we have now? What a mess of a pitching rotation. AA tried to throw a bunch of s*** against the wall but it didn't stick

Section_306 · Post #493 » by **Section_306** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:07 am

I skipped out of work early today to catch both games :lol:

Between our "ace" Dickey and that 8th inning that was some of the worst baseball I've ever watched :lol:

Randle McMurphy · Post #494 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:08 am

Wo1verine wrote:I just hope when this team proves not to be good enough they do a Boston style rebuild AKA - trade guys like Dickey, Buehrle, Rasmus, a couple bullpen arms and save whatever young players we can get and use the saved cash on free agency.

In that scenario, they won't use the saved cash at all. It will just be a reboot of 2010 and the Rogers cycle will renew itself once again.

Wo1verine · Post #495 » by **Wo1verine** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:11 am

Randle McMurphy wrote:
Wo1verine wrote:I just hope when this team proves not to be good enough they do a Boston style rebuild AKA - trade guys like Dickey, Buehrle, Rasmus, a couple bullpen arms and save whatever young players we can get and use the saved cash on free agency.

In that scenario, they won't use the saved cash at all. It will just be a reboot of 2010 and the Rogers cycle will renew itself once again.

You're probably right.
Though Griffin said Rogers wouldn't dismantle this team because of the fan support/interest over the last couple years.

Mehar · Post #496 » by **Mehar** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:23 am

Guys- i want all of you to feel better and sleep well. Just was listening to the Fan 590 briefly and Mike Wilner said that if the Jays win their next two games- they will be on a 90 win pace. It is still early guys and everyone should realize it still April according to Shillner. Just listen to Wilner or Mike Shiller as i call him- and you feel much better.

Randle McMurphy · Post #497 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:26 am

Wo1verine wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:
Wo1verine wrote:I just hope when this team proves not to be good enough they do a Boston style rebuild AKA - trade guys like Dickey, Buehrle, Rasmus, a couple bullpen arms and save whatever young players we can get and use the saved cash on free agency.

In that scenario, they won't use the saved cash at all. It will just be a reboot of 2010 and the Rogers cycle will renew itself once again.

You're probably right.
Though Griffin said Rogers wouldn't dismantle this team because of the fan support/interest over the last couple years.

Don't buy it. They could have capitalized on the renewed interest from last year by spending more this offseason to improve the team, but did nothing of the sort. They're content with mediocrity. And why wouldn't they be? It's still making them money.

Raptor Factor · Post #498 » by **Raptor Factor** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:27 am

Mehar wrote:Guys- i want all of you to feel better and sleep well. Just was listening to the Fan 590 briefly and Mike Wilner said that if the Jays win their next two games- they will be on a 90 win pace. It is still early guys and everyone should realize it still April. Just listen to Wilner or Mike Shiller as i call him- and you feel much better.

Id agree, but I remember the Jays having 25-16 starts in the last few years, and ending up well under .500

Though it is still early and it's not like we're falling behind in the division race, we just need to start winning more consistently

Mehar · Post #499 » by **Mehar** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:29 am

Raptor Factor wrote:
Mehar wrote:Guys- i want all of you to feel better and sleep well. Just was listening to the Fan 590 briefly and Mike Wilner said that if the Jays win their next two games- they will be on a 90 win pace. It is still early guys and everyone should realize it still April according to Shillner. Just listen to Wilner or Mike Shiller as i call him- and you feel much better.

Id agree, but I remember the Jays having 25-16 starts in the last few years, and ending up well under .500

Though it is still early and it's not like we're falling behind in the division race, we just need to start winning more consistently

I agree with that. This team needs to win these games and i do not care for when people like Wilner say "it is early". Games in April count the same as games in September.

dagger · Post #500 » by **dagger** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:30 am

Wo1verine wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:
Wo1verine wrote:I just hope when this team proves not to be good enough they do a Boston style rebuild AKA - trade guys like Dickey, Buehrle, Rasmus, a couple bullpen arms and save whatever young players we can get and use the saved cash on free agency.

In that scenario, they won't use the saved cash at all. It will just be a reboot of 2010 and the Rogers cycle will renew itself once again.

You're probably right.
Though Griffin said Rogers wouldn't dismantle this team because of the fan support/interest over the last couple years.

I think he was thinking in terms of a Houston-like complete talent and payroll-like teardown. Houston was in town when Griffin made that observation.