Blue Jays acquire David Price for Norris, Labourt, Boyd

[Parataxis]

so let's pretend that Price is our 5th starter. we've now gone from a 33% chance of losing (guessing the numbers) to a 66% chance of winning.

Ummm... I don't think those numbers mean what you think they mean...

[Santoki]

Also a Yankees fan. And I am more optimistic about the team than you 'true' fans.

"Guy who claims to be a fan of two divisional rivals and hasn't posted on the Jays board in living memory in 'I'm more of a fan than you' shocker".

So i am required to post a ton to be admitted as a fan? Seriously? Do you need to have the last word on everything?

Please don't cry victim here. You came in and accused the "true" fans (your use of quotations) of being pessimistic and called yourself more optimistic. It's kind of easy to do that when you sport the flair of a division rival. You have your bases covered on the optimism front.

[V]

"Guy who claims to be a fan of two divisional rivals and hasn't posted on the Jays board in living memory in 'I'm more of a fan than you' shocker".

So i am required to post a ton to be admitted as a fan? Seriously? Do you need to have the last word on everything?

Please don't cry victim here. You came in and accused the "true" fans (your use of quotations) of being pessimistic and called yourself more optimistic. It's kind of easy to do that when you sport the flair of a division rival. You have your bases covered on the optimism front.

Here is how I end this since it can go on forever until the Jays actually win a WS. You win, and I am moving on. I'm gonna go now and enjoy watching the jays contend for the first time in recent memory. You can go and save the Jays farm system.. perpetually.

[Santoki]

So i am required to post a ton to be admitted as a fan? Seriously? Do you need to have the last word on everything?

Please don't cry victim here. You came in and accused the "true" fans (your use of quotations) of being pessimistic and called yourself more optimistic. It's kind of easy to do that when you sport the flair of a division rival. You have your bases covered on the optimism front.

Here is how I end this since it can go on forever until the Jays actually win a WS. You win, and I am moving on. I'm gonna go now and enjoy watching the jays contend for the first time in recent memory. You can go and save the Jays farm system.. perpetually.

Ok hopefully there aren't too many scheduling conflicts with Yankees series. Btw, when the Yanks and Jays play, who do you root for?

[whysoserious]

Stroman is returning from a full season away and is somewhat of a question mark. Osuna likely can't just slide into a major league rotation for a full season next year. Sanchez is not a proven full-season starter. Hutchison is a big question mark at this point.

So each of the four have question marks. Now where do we find the other 4-5 starters we'll need over the course of a season? Do we go all the way down to A ball to find a legitimate prospect, or do we rely on the Jeff Francises and Randy Wolfs of the world? Neither is an appealing option.

Bringing Dickey back isn't exactly an exciting prospect, because 1) he'll be 41; 2) he'll probably suck half the year; and 3) he screws with our catching situation. The one thing he does do though is pitch a lot of innings, so unfortunately it's looking like he'll be back next year.

Weren't those going to be issues even if Hoffman and Norris and Boyd were still with the organization? I mean there's no proof they'd have taken those roles and run with it. They certainly are options for sure but people are acting like with them our rotation was set and it really wasn't. So the questiosn you ask about Hutch, Stro exist regardless and we had a few prospects as options for those roles.

Regardless, we have Buehrle and Dickey come off the books so if they want to spend that money on two starters they can this off-season and that's not factoring in if they make a play to keep Price.

[Lateral Quicks]

Stroman is returning from a full season away and is somewhat of a question mark. Osuna likely can't just slide into a major league rotation for a full season next year. Sanchez is not a proven full-season starter. Hutchison is a big question mark at this point.

So each of the four have question marks. Now where do we find the other 4-5 starters we'll need over the course of a season? Do we go all the way down to A ball to find a legitimate prospect, or do we rely on the Jeff Francises and Randy Wolfs of the world? Neither is an appealing option.

Bringing Dickey back isn't exactly an exciting prospect, because 1) he'll be 41; 2) he'll probably suck half the year; and 3) he screws with our catching situation. The one thing he does do though is pitch a lot of innings, so unfortunately it's looking like he'll be back next year.

Weren't those going to be issues even if Hoffman and Norris and Boyd were still with the organization? I mean there's no proof they'd have taken those roles and run with it. They certainly are options for sure but people are acting like with them our rotation was set and it really wasn't. So the questiosn you ask about Hutch, Stro exist regardless and we had a few prospects as options for those roles.

Regardless, we have Buehrle and Dickey come off the books so if they want to spend that money on two starters they can this off-season and that's not factoring in if they make a play to keep Price.

Of course no prospect is a sure thing. Two things though. First, volume matters. If you have enough young pitching, you improve your odds of some of it sticking. Second, not all prospects are considered equal. The odds of premium guys like Hoffman and Norris eventually sticking are much better than the Sean Nolins of the world.

Now we have no not only have no premium guys, but no volume either.

[C Court]

It's a Toronto sports disease. Since our teams haven't won much, the fans and media - and we have a disproportionate amount of whiney media here because the sports nets are based in Toronto - demand action, Action, ACTION. No one has the patience for a rebuild.

I don't get it either.

Even the more respected Toronto sports journos are saying stuff like 'hell ya', the Jays are 'all-in' and let's watch 'meaningful baseball in September". No one seems to care that this quick fix could evaporate on October 1st and set the Jays back for a few more seasons.

I sure hope the Jays go to the 2015 World Series, because otherwise Jays fans are going to be awfully upset for years to come watching many of our ex-prospects enjoying long and prosperous careers elsewhere.

[OakleyDokely]

I think the guy who managed to acquire Tulo, Donaldson, Martin, Travis, Price in one season will be manage to sign/trade for a couple starters in the offseason.

[OakleyDokely]

If things fall apart like many here expect them to in 2016 due to a lack of pitching, the Jays have big trade chips in EE and JoeyBats to acquire back young assets they traded.

This notion that they have few assets and no future is ridiculous. They have young/in prime players signed long term at key positions and vets they can trade for tangible assets if need be.

[Fairview4Life]

If things fall apart like many here expect them to in 2016 due to a lack of pitching, the Jays have big trade chips in EE and JoeyBats to acquire back young assets they traded.

This notion that they have few assets and no future is ridiculous. They have young/in prime players signed long term at key positions and vets they can trade for tangible assets if need be.

And Tulowitzki, and Martin and Donaldson, if we want to rebuild.

[OakleyDokely]

If things fall apart like many here expect them to in 2016 due to a lack of pitching, the Jays have big trade chips in EE and JoeyBats to acquire back young assets they traded.

This notion that they have few assets and no future is ridiculous. They have young/in prime players signed long term at key positions and vets they can trade for tangible assets if need be.

And Tulowitzki, and Martin and Donaldson, if we want to rebuild.

Yup, A core of Stroman/Osuna/Sanchez/Hutchinson/Tulo/Donaldson/Travis/Martin is comparable with some of the top cores in baseball statistically.

[Sifu]

I think the guy who managed to acquire Tulo, Donaldson, Martin, Travis, Price in one season will be manage to sign/trade for a couple starters in the offseason.

Yep, just like he did this past off season when the need was so acute that we resorted to starting the year with three rookie pitchers.

[Sifu]

If things fall apart like many here expect them to in 2016 due to a lack of pitching, the Jays have big trade chips in EE and JoeyBats to acquire back young assets they traded.

This notion that they have few assets and no future is ridiculous. They have young/in prime players signed long term at key positions and vets they can trade for tangible assets if need be.

This I can agree with. But I doubt the courage of this organization to do this. Let's say by July 2016, the Jays are hovering at 0.500 and in a similar situation as now. Do they pack it in like the Tigers and reload for the future or do they go all in again?

Call me stupid but I doubt they pack it in and they end up trading the remaining top prospects for rentals.

Many years from now it will emerge that AA's dream job was to work for the Yankees and he was a sleeper agent that torpedoed the Jays.

[OakleyDokely]

I think the guy who managed to acquire Tulo, Donaldson, Martin, Travis, Price in one season will be manage to sign/trade for a couple starters in the offseason.

Yep, just like he did this past off season when the need was so acute that we resorted to starting the year with three rookie pitchers.

I honestly don't care how old the pitchers are, I care if they are good or not. Yes, the Jays were relying heavily on quality youth like a lot of other good teams do.

It's hard to plan around a freak injury to a starter that you projected as your #1 or #2 just prior to the season.

[Santoki]

I think the guy who managed to acquire Tulo, Donaldson, Martin, Travis, Price in one season will be manage to sign/trade for a couple starters in the offseason.

Yep, just like he did this past off season when the need was so acute that we resorted to starting the year with three rookie pitchers.

I honestly don't care how old the pitchers are, I care if they are good or not. Yes, the Jays were relying heavily on quality youth like a lot of other good teams do.

It's hard to plan around a freak injury to a starter that you projected as your #1 or #2 just prior to the season.

With or without Stroman the Jays needed to get some starting pitching in the offseason but by all accounts there was no money to be spent. If that's changed then great, but I don't expect Rogers to open their wallets. Many will point to money coming off the books in Dickey and Buehrle but they're 200-inning guys you'd have to replace with essentially three FA guys who all make in the range of $15 million per year for multiple years. Im not sure how much more backloading of deals AA can do but he'd better find a way to do so because there is a lot of money on the books come 2017. If the plan is to then deal those contracts off if we aren't in contention then that's an option but we'd certainly get a lot less value for them than we'd think. I'm not as high on the 2017-18 core as some though.

[Schad]

I honestly don't care how old the pitchers are, I care if they are good or not. Yes, the Jays were relying heavily on quality youth like a lot of other good teams do.

It's hard to plan around a freak injury to a starter that you projected as your #1 or #2 just prior to the season.

There's a difference between relying on quality youth that is likely ready, and kids whose inclusion is much more speculative. Norris was thrown into the rotation with less than 60 IP above A-ball; Sanchez was widely regarded as simply not having the toolset to start. Our bullpen featured a presumptive closer who hadn't pitched above A-ball at all. Those players having a high degree of likelihood of coming up short are things you can plan around.

[Sifu]

The only difference between then and now is our records. On paper we have similar teams. Home grown mixed in with new blood. I never said they dont pan out, the likelihood that one becomes a stud is slim. A lot of factors play into it.

Don't you think that difference is the most important? It's like going all in with pocket aces vs all in on a 2 7.

Besides that team had a good balance of pitching and hitting. This team does not. That team was winning for many years and was positioned well to win for many more. This team hasn't sniffed glue let alone playoffs. That team was first or near the top in an era where divisions were larger. This team can't even be in the top half of its own division. That team had an ownership willing to sign players and to be top spenders. This team...?

To say this is all worth it because we haven't had playoffs for 22 years and at least this will give us a small chance (note that our odds of making the playoffs is lower than randomly flipping a coin and guessing correctly), is not very smart.

It's like mortgaging your house to buy lotto tickets. You might win and it will be worth it, but if you lose your in deep **** for many many years.

[OakleyDokely]

Yep, just like he did this past off season when the need was so acute that we resorted to starting the year with three rookie pitchers.

I honestly don't care how old the pitchers are, I care if they are good or not. Yes, the Jays were relying heavily on quality youth like a lot of other good teams do.

It's hard to plan around a freak injury to a starter that you projected as your #1 or #2 just prior to the season.

With or without Stroman the Jays needed to get some starting pitching in the offseason but by all accounts there was no money to be spent. If that's changed then great, but I don't expect Rogers to open their wallets. Many will point to money coming off the books in Dickey and Buehrle but they're 200-inning guys you'd have to replace with essentially three FA guys who all make in the range of $15 million per year for multiple years. Im not sure how much more backloading of deals AA can do but he'd better find a way to do so because there is a lot of money on the books come 2017. If the plan is to then deal those contracts off if we aren't in contention then that's an option but we'd certainly get a lot less value for them than we'd think. I'm not as high on the 2017-18 core as some though.

Heading into the season, we didn't really know good or bad the pitching staff would be because it was young. We basically knew what we get from Dickey/MB but if Stroman pitched like he did last year, the outlook would be a lot different than it is now.

[Xaos]

If things fall apart like many here expect them to in 2016 due to a lack of pitching, the Jays have big trade chips in EE and JoeyBats to acquire back young assets they traded.

This notion that they have few assets and no future is ridiculous. They have young/in prime players signed long term at key positions and vets they can trade for tangible assets if need be.

This. Exactly how I feel.

[OakleyDokely]

I honestly don't care how old the pitchers are, I care if they are good or not. Yes, the Jays were relying heavily on quality youth like a lot of other good teams do.

It's hard to plan around a freak injury to a starter that you projected as your #1 or #2 just prior to the season.

There's a difference between relying on quality youth that is likely ready, and kids whose inclusion is much more speculative. Norris was thrown into the rotation with less than 60 IP above A-ball; Sanchez was widely regarded as simply not having the toolset to start. Our bullpen featured a presumptive closer who hadn't pitched above A-ball at all. Those players having a high degree of likelihood of coming up short are things you can plan around.

If Stroman didn't suffer a freak injury, Norris or Sanchez would have been the 5th starter behind Stroman, MB, Dickey, Hutch. That's exactly how you want to start the careers of your top pitching prospects. Due to injuries, they had to play bigger roles.

Osuna has thrived this year and has been one of the biggest surprises. Sanchez has improved as the season has gone on and has put up respectable numbers as a starter and in the bullpen. The only disappointment this year was Norris actually.