To the people who hated the trades...

[RaptorsJunkie]

Although Price has been good, his run support woukd have allowed for most other pitchers to have earned us those wins

[whysoserious]

Although Price has been good, his run support woukd have allowed for most other pitchers to have earned us those wins

Maybe but there's a level of boost in confidence from everyone knowing they have Price on the mound as well, not to mention how much he seems to have influenced the team in the locker room.

[The_Hater]

I never understood the people who loved the Tulo trade but hate the Price one. The first necessitated the latter, so it has to be viewed in that context. And as far as deadline trades for aces go, Price for Norris and Boyd was a bargain even if Price leaves. I still hate the Tulo trade. There was no need to handcuff ourselves to 5 more years of one of the most injury prone players in baseball at $20 million per, not with Rogers' record of spending. AA could've salary dumped Reyes and stuck Goins at SS for an upgrade at the position until a replacement was found. On top of that we lost our top pitching prospect.

Also AA gave up way too much for way too little in the Lowe trade.

I doubt Reyes was movable in a salary dump. I have not seen a salary of that size, for that value of player (especially since he was not a good SS) moved in a few years.

The salary cost is in the back end (which is still of substance). Those last 2-3 years may be painful. But I certainly saw Tulo as being very valuable in 2015 (at the time of the deal), and in 2016. So the deal would likely add to the Jays being good in 2015 and 2016 and possibly 2017. 2017 onwards gets iffy and it could be certainly argued that the last 2 years due to cost could be negative.

But I am looking at the deal in 3 year windows.

This is the way I view it too. It would have cost at least Hoffman just to dump Reyes and his massiv contract, especially since he can't even play his position defensively anymore. The part where the Jays acquire the best 2 way SS in MLB to replace him is just gravy. And yes Tulo has a massive contract but you want to pay those types of salaries to superstars like Tulo, not the Jose Reyes' of the world.

[The_Hater]

Although Price has been good, his run support woukd have allowed for most other pitchers to have earned us those wins

And his pitching had been so stellar Price could have earned those wins without huge run support....

But you can't forget, they don't replace Price in the rotation with Estrada or Dickey, they would have to replace that spot with Hutch and possibly somebody worse if not multiple players. So no, they wouldn't have won all those games despite strong run support.

[Randle McMurphy]

The Tulo trade was a no brainer and the smaller dealsdidnt sacrifice very much. The only questionable trade was the Price one based on how much was given up but when you look at the rest of the roster now, it was completely necessary and Price hasn't disappointed at all. Now ask the Royals about their J Cueto rental.

While true, Cueto was really only acquired for one or two starts...those coming next week in the ALDS. The last 2 months have been essentially meaningless for the Royals.

[whysoserious]

The Tulo trade was a no brainer and the smaller dealsdidnt sacrifice very much. The only questionable trade was the Price one based on how much was given up but when you look at the rest of the roster now, it was completely necessary and Price hasn't disappointed at all. Now ask the Royals about their J Cueto rental.

While true, Cueto was really only acquired for one or two starts...those coming next week in the ALDS. The last 2 months have been essentially meaningless for the Royals.

Maybe but he hasn't been great either to have a lot of confidence going in to those starts for next week. Kansas City is still dangerous and Cueto is still good but I'd rather pay a little more and get someone like Price.

[Skin Blues]

Cueto has been every bit as good as Price over the past 5 years, if not better. Yeah, Price has been insane since we got him, but he's never had a season close to as good as Cueto's 2014. Obviously I'm glad with the one we got since Cueto hasn't been as sharp over the past month, but I don't think it's clear which of them will be better in the playoffs.

After looking through differences for Cueto since he joined the Royals, the only noticeable one is that he's not changing speeds with his fastball as much as before. It's a pretty clear difference.



He used to be fluctuate between 88-96 with an average of about 92, but since he's been with the Royals he's been mostly 91-95 with an average of about 93. Could be he's trying too hard and going all-out on every pitch rather than just using his top velocity when he needs it the most.

[Santoki]

Cueto has been every bit as good as Price over the past 5 years, if not better. Yeah, Price has been insane since we got him, but he's never had a season close to as good as Cueto's 2014. Obviously I'm glad with the one we got since Cueto hasn't been as sharp over the past month, but I don't think it's clear which of them will be better in the playoffs.

After looking through differences for Cueto since he joined the Royals, the only noticeable one is that he's not changing speeds with his fastball as much as before. It's a pretty clear difference.



He used to be fluctuate between 88-96 with an average of about 92, but since he's been with the Royals he's been mostly 91-95 with an average of about 93. Could be he's trying too hard and going all-out on every pitch rather than just using his top velocity when he needs it the most.

Another thing I really didn't want to point out is Price's playoff history. It's....not exactly stellar. It's a pretty short sample size but he's been roughed up a number of times. His last start was good but lost a tight one to the Os. His teams haven't made it out of the ALDS since the '08 run with Tampa where he was coming out of the pen.

This doesn't really mean anything of significance but like any player Price isn't a guarantee to be lights out in the playoffs because of his regular season form.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=priceda01&t=p&year=0&post=1

[whysoserious]

As far as Tulo is concerned as well, why is he being listed as a major injury risk and injury prone? Dude had one season cut short by an injury, played 91 games last year and if not for a freak injury to end this season likely plays in at least 130 games again.

[LLJ]

Another thing I really didn't want to point out is Price's playoff history. It's....not exactly stellar. It's a pretty short sample size but he's been roughed up a number of times. His last start was good but lost a tight one to the Os. His teams haven't made it out of the ALDS since the '08 run with Tampa where he was coming out of the pen.

This doesn't really mean anything of significance but like any player Price isn't a guarantee to be lights out in the playoffs because of his regular season form.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=priceda01&t=p&year=0&post=1

Price's tendency to nibble is quite irritating at times. He sometimes makes it harder on himself that it needs to be. People around Toronto right now are comparing him to Halladay but difference is Roy didn't screw around. He worked quick and was ruthlessly efficient.

[J-Roc]

Jays need to win the World Series. They are the best team in baseball going into the postseason. It's like how the Raptors needed to win the last two playoff series. The expectations are set by how you perform going into the postseason. Anything less than meeting expectations is a disappointment.

How did people not expect the Jays to reel off these wins? Aren't they they only team not overachieving based on pythagorean record? They needed a frontline starter and some set pieces like Revere and Tulo, and then they'd finally start winning like they should be.

Unfortunately, I don't expect Price to return, so I don't think we'll sustain being the top team in baseball.

[Santoki]

Jays need to win the World Series. They are the best team in baseball going into the postseason. It's like how the Raptors needed to win the last two playoff series. The expectations are set by how you perform going into the postseason. Anything less than meeting expectations is a disappointment.

How did people not expect the Jays to reel off these wins? Aren't they they only team not overachieving based on pythagorean record? They needed a frontline starter and some set pieces like Revere and Tulo, and then they'd finally start winning like they should be.

Unfortunately, I don't expect Price to return, so I don't think we'll sustain being the top team in baseball.

No one in their right mind expected the Jays to comfortably lead not only the AL East but the entire AL with 6 games to go when they made the trades at the end of July.

There are plenty of teams that underperform or outperform their Pyth for an entire season and their records don't reflect that. I know run differential isn't the be all and end all but it was something that people were banging on about with the Jays all season. Right now the Angels have a chance to win the division and currently have a run differential of -6. The team they could overtake, the Rangers, currently have a +7 run differential. The team the Angels just passed for the second wildcard, the Astros, have a run differential of 92.

What the Jays have done over the past two months is nothing short of miraculous. I haven't looked at the numbers but I would guess this has to be a Top 5 last 60 game run to end a season over the past, I don't know, 50 years.

Edit - The run over the past 55 games is tied for 7th all time in MLB history (games 102-156) and tied for 4th in the past 50 years. We'll see how the rest of the season plays out to get an official record but this is easily an historic end to the season. No one would have predicted this two months ago.

[Hoopstarr]

As far as Tulo is concerned as well, why is he being listed as a major injury risk and injury prone? Dude had one season cut short by an injury, played 91 games last year and if not for a freak injury to end this season likely plays in at least 130 games again.

In 9 full season he has averaged 118 games (the same as Josh Hamilton) and hasn't played a full season since 2009. He has also played through a lot of injuries. Any injuries can be written off as freak, but a record is a record.

[LLJ]

Edit - The run over the past 55 games is tied for 7th all time in MLB history (games 102-156) and tied for 4th in the past 50 years. We'll see how the rest of the season plays out to get an official record but this is easily an historic end to the season. No one would have predicted this two months ago.

I almost don't want to ask, but how many of the candidates in this list won the World Series?

[Santoki]

Edit - The run over the past 55 games is tied for 7th all time in MLB history (games 102-156) and tied for 4th in the past 50 years. We'll see how the rest of the season plays out to get an official record but this is easily an historic end to the season. No one would have predicted this two months ago.

I almost don't want to ask, but how many of the candidates in this list won the World Series?

Out of the top 10, three teams have done it. The '42 Cardinals, '70 Orioles and '77 Yankees. Something of note, in 1977 the Royals actually had a better finish to the season. They went 46-15 while the Yankees went 44-17. They met in the ALCS and the Yankees won.

If you widen it to look at the Top 30 finishes of all time, you can add the 1908 Cubs, 1914 Boston Braves, '61/'78 Yankees, '69 Mets, '75 Reds, and '04 Red Sox.

If you only look at the past 40 years, there have been 21 teams that have gone on similar kinds of runs. Only two of those teams have gone on to win the World Series. However, there are 8 occasions where it was done in the same year so it's more like 16-17 independent instances and two have been successful.

[Skin Blues]

As far as Tulo is concerned as well, why is he being listed as a major injury risk and injury prone? Dude had one season cut short by an injury, played 91 games last year and if not for a freak injury to end this season likely plays in at least 130 games again.

Played 9 full seasons, and only reached 130 games three times, only one of which coming within the past 6 years. He is always injured.

[whysoserious]

As far as Tulo is concerned as well, why is he being listed as a major injury risk and injury prone? Dude had one season cut short by an injury, played 91 games last year and if not for a freak injury to end this season likely plays in at least 130 games again.

In 9 full season he has averaged 118 games (the same as Josh Hamilton) and hasn't played a full season since 2009. He has also played through a lot of injuries. Any injuries can be written off as freak, but a record is a record.

Are you factoring in his main rookie year of 25 games played? and his main injury year? He's also played 150, 126 just last year and was on pace for 13-150 games played this year. I mean he's far from someone that should be considered injury prone and a consistent risk.

He's had a couple of key years impacted by injuries but this years injury was absolutely a freak injury which would have built off his return last year and played the majority of the season.

[whysoserious]

As far as Tulo is concerned as well, why is he being listed as a major injury risk and injury prone? Dude had one season cut short by an injury, played 91 games last year and if not for a freak injury to end this season likely plays in at least 130 games again.

Played 9 full seasons, and only reached 130 games three times, only one of which coming within the past 6 years. He is always injured.

Is 130 now the cut off since he played 126 one season and 122 another and would have easily surpassed 130 this year if not for the Pillar incident.

[Steelo Green]

Don't know, yet. If we get bounced in the AL rounds and this playoff run ends up being a one-off, I'll still regret that we made the trades...ending the streak and transitioning into another drought would be pretty painful, and concerns about our lack of young reinforcements are still real even if payroll gets bumped.

If we turn this into something sustainable, or win the Series, that absolutely changes things.

So if we go to WS and lose, it was a success and if we lose in the ALCS even it was a failure?

I would say ALCS is a success, and if we keep Price (yes I know the chances), then it was worth it because we should be this level of team for a while then.

[Skin Blues]

As far as Tulo is concerned as well, why is he being listed as a major injury risk and injury prone? Dude had one season cut short by an injury, played 91 games last year and if not for a freak injury to end this season likely plays in at least 130 games again.

Played 9 full seasons, and only reached 130 games three times, only one of which coming within the past 6 years. He is always injured.

Is 130 now the cut off since he played 126 one season and 122 another and would have easily surpassed 130 this year if not for the Pillar incident.

130 is a pretty low bar. I would bet that he has missed the most games due to injury of any full-time player over the past 6 years. He is the definition of injury prone.