Jays sign Happ 3 for 36

[changes]

Why does everyone think it was a binary choice btwn 200M pitcher or #5 like JA Happ? Last I checked, there were LOTS of #1, 2, and 3 pitchers in the league.....maybe someone wants to trade 1?

Or what about a ZImmerman, Chen, etc?

It wasn't David Price or bust.

Yep, awful logic. Pretty amusing. Well they weren't going to spend 220 on Price............. therefore Happ is a good signing.

Not sure you are aware of the $$ market for middling starting pitching. To go out and sign mediocre rotation SPs is a lot more of a risk than signing Happ or Chavez. See the contracts of guys like Rickey Nolasco, Jimenez and Garza to name a few., these contracts turn bad fast. The money average rotation guys receive is insane and money would be better spent more effectively to fix other needs.

In regards to trading for starting pitching, the Jays don't have the farm system to trade for top calibre rotation guys. Second, trading away cost efficient prospects is what put the Jays in this predicament in the first place. By trading more prospects for short term fixes in the rotation isn't smart baseball management. it would just be compounding the situation we are already in.

I think they should consider some random scrub off this board to plug into the rotation. Sure bottom starting pitching is less of a risk than middle starting pitching for rogers pockets, but I think said scrub from forum would mitigate the risk for rogers even more. It's a risk management game.

[Santoki]

The market for the top guys hasn't been set yet. We don't even know what the price of those guys will be yet.

You don't have to sign guys based on their position in the rotation.

[ldnk]

The market for the top guys hasn't been set yet. We don't even know what the price of those guys will be yet.

You don't have to sign guys based on their position in the rotation.

Zimmerman went for 5 years 22million/year. (110M total)

[EastBayBoy]

Yep, awful logic. Pretty amusing. Well they weren't going to spend 220 on Price............. therefore Happ is a good signing.

Not sure you are aware of the $$ market for middling starting pitching. To go out and sign mediocre rotation SPs is a lot more of a risk than signing Happ or Chavez. See the contracts of guys like Rickey Nolasco, Jimenez and Garza to name a few., these contracts turn bad fast. The money average rotation guys receive is insane and money would be better spent more effectively to fix other needs.

In regards to trading for starting pitching, the Jays don't have the farm system to trade for top calibre rotation guys. Second, trading away cost efficient prospects is what put the Jays in this predicament in the first place. By trading more prospects for short term fixes in the rotation isn't smart baseball management. it would just be compounding the situation we are already in.

I think they should consider some random scrub off this board to plug into the rotation. Sure bottom starting pitching is less of a risk than middle starting pitching for rogers pockets, but I think said scrub from forum would mitigate the risk for rogers even more. It's a risk management game.

Your point is just evident to how little you know about how successful baseball teams are run. The Price trade made no sense from the second it happened.Compounding that with more signings just makes the situation worse for now and into the future. but hey, it brought back a bunch of bandwagoners because of 2 great months, said bandwagoners know so much about risk management and how shelling out 100-200 mil for pitchers who have so much mileage on their arms is smart baseball management.

[EastBayBoy]

double

[EastBayBoy]

double post

[Natural11]

Your point is just evident to how little you know about how successful baseball teams are run. The Price trade made no sense from the second it happened.Compounding that with more signings just makes the situation worse for now and into the future. but hey, it brought back a bunch of bandwagoners because of 2 great months, said bandwagoners know so much about risk management and how shelling out 100-200 mil for pitchers who have so much mileage on their arms is smart baseball management.

Not sure if it's that you are content with mediocrity or if you are literally Mark Shapiro, but bringing in David Price and coming within a hair of the World Series is not a mistake when your ballclub has not seen the play-offs in 22 years. The ultimate goal is to put a successful team on the field and that goal was accomplished last year. If we had not made the play-offs, then yes, we could sit here and analyze it as Dickey 2.0 for days. Fortunately, we did, and were rewarded with the best Blue Jays baseball seen in a very long time.

[changes]

Not sure you are aware of the $$ market for middling starting pitching. To go out and sign mediocre rotation SPs is a lot more of a risk than signing Happ or Chavez. See the contracts of guys like Rickey Nolasco, Jimenez and Garza to name a few., these contracts turn bad fast. The money average rotation guys receive is insane and money would be better spent more effectively to fix other needs.

In regards to trading for starting pitching, the Jays don't have the farm system to trade for top calibre rotation guys. Second, trading away cost efficient prospects is what put the Jays in this predicament in the first place. By trading more prospects for short term fixes in the rotation isn't smart baseball management. it would just be compounding the situation we are already in.

I think they should consider some random scrub off this board to plug into the rotation. Sure bottom starting pitching is less of a risk than middle starting pitching for rogers pockets, but I think said scrub from forum would mitigate the risk for rogers even more. It's a risk management game.

Your point is just evident to how little you know about how successful baseball teams are run. The Price trade made no sense from the second it happened.Compounding that with more signings just makes the situation worse for now and into the future. but hey, it brought back a bunch of bandwagoners because of 2 great months, said bandwagoners know so much about risk management and how shelling out 100-200 mil for pitchers who have so much mileage on their arms is smart baseball management.

Totally agree. All signings would be bad. Happ is good. Strong deductive reasoning would suggest that anyone that disagrees is a bandwagonner.

[Wo1verine]

If i told you a year ago that Estrada and Happ would sign for 62M total, you'd think i was crazy

[fmradioguy]

Bowden and Duquette said it better than I could. If nobody has posted it...

https://soundcloud.com/mlbnetworkradio/jim-bowden-jim-duquette-on-happ-deal-tons-of-red-flags-on-this-one

[Geddy]

I remember when the Jays made the Dickey trade we got all sorts of advanced stats telling those who doubted it that it was a good move. We know how that worked out in the long run.

[EastBayBoy]

Your point is just evident to how little you know about how successful baseball teams are run. The Price trade made no sense from the second it happened.Compounding that with more signings just makes the situation worse for now and into the future. but hey, it brought back a bunch of bandwagoners because of 2 great months, said bandwagoners know so much about risk management and how shelling out 100-200 mil for pitchers who have so much mileage on their arms is smart baseball management.

Not sure if it's that you are content with mediocrity or if you are literally Mark Shapiro, but bringing in David Price and coming within a hair of the World Series is not a mistake when your ballclub has not seen the play-offs in 22 years. The ultimate goal is to put a successful team on the field and that goal was accomplished last year. If we had not made the play-offs, then yes, we could sit here and analyze it as Dickey 2.0 for days. Fortunately, we did, and were rewarded with the best Blue Jays baseball seen in a very long time.

its called looking at the big picture, not just at the present. I'd rather be a team like the Cardinals who have success over multiple years than success over one year then being **** brutal like the Red Sox, yes. That Price trade gave them a whole 2 months of an ace and success rather than control of a young cost efficient player who has potential with top end stuff. 2-3 good years of Price and then having an albatross isn't smart baseball. Having the likes of Tulo, Martin and Price making close to 20 mil again isn't smart baseball.

Don't know if calling me Shapiro is supposed to be an insult or not, but same guy led the Indians with close to the lowest payroll in baseball to multiple playoff appearances.

[changes]

I remember when the Jays made the Dickey trade we got all sorts of advanced stats telling those who doubted it that it was a good move. We know how that worked out in the long run.

The great news is that Happ made a change in his mechanics that worked out well for 11 games vs bad opposition.

And considering how easy it is for pitchers to be consistent with their long standing mechanics, a change at 33 years old is bound to be permanent and effective in a much tougher league.

[cram]

Zimmer is going to the Tigers apparently.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/671015273156190211[/tweet]

110million is a big number, Happ is a good signing.

Zimmerman is a much better pitcher.

[EastBayBoy]

I think they should consider some random scrub off this board to plug into the rotation. Sure bottom starting pitching is less of a risk than middle starting pitching for rogers pockets, but I think said scrub from forum would mitigate the risk for rogers even more. It's a risk management game.

Your point is just evident to how little you know about how successful baseball teams are run. The Price trade made no sense from the second it happened.Compounding that with more signings just makes the situation worse for now and into the future. but hey, it brought back a bunch of bandwagoners because of 2 great months, said bandwagoners know so much about risk management and how shelling out 100-200 mil for pitchers who have so much mileage on their arms is smart baseball management.

Totally agree. All signings would be bad. Happ is good. Strong deductive reasoning would suggest that anyone that disagrees is a bandwagonner.

people who disagree make for great baseball banter, I'm all for that.

In your case my 'strong deductive reasoning' deduced that you have little knowledge on how successful baseball teams are run by reading multiple posts you've made on this board, not just this one.

[changes]

Don't know if calling me Shapiro is supposed to be an insult or not, but same guy led the Indians with close to the lowest payroll in baseball to multiple playoff appearances.

1 appearance in 2007, followed by a 1 game wildcard in 2013, with years of mediocrity in between. Definitely not an insult.

[C Court]

Shapiro and TLC are making the best of a tough situation. While Jays fans had a great two month run, fact is we are now paying the price (no pun intended) for Alex trading away a bunch of good young arms to win now.

What "tough situation" are you referring to?

Instead of having access to young homegrown arms like Syndegaard, Hoffman, Norris, etc, the Jays now are forced to overpay for older arms. They can really overpay for an elite arm to the tune of $200 million, but those deals often turn sour quickly.

[cram]

Why does everyone think it was a binary choice btwn 200M pitcher or #5 like JA Happ? Last I checked, there were LOTS of #1, 2, and 3 pitchers in the league.....maybe someone wants to trade 1?

Or what about a ZImmerman, Chen, etc?

It wasn't David Price or bust.

Yep, awful logic. Pretty amusing. Well they weren't going to spend 220 on Price............. therefore Happ is a good signing.

Not sure you are aware of the $$ market for middling starting pitching. To go out and sign mediocre rotation SPs is a lot more of a risk than signing Happ or Chavez. See the contracts of guys like Rickey Nolasco, Jimenez and Garza to name a few., these contracts turn bad fast. The money average rotation guys receive is insane and money would be better spent more effectively to fix other needs. Rumours are Chen wants 20 mil a year, don't know if he's going to get it but thats how crazy the market is.

In regards to trading for starting pitching, the Jays don't have the farm system to trade for top calibre rotation guys. Second, trading away cost efficient prospects is what put the Jays in this predicament in the first place. By trading more prospects for short term fixes in the rotation isn't smart baseball management. it would just be compounding the situation we are already in.

Who said you have to trade prospects? Why not players from our roster?

[changes]

Your point is just evident to how little you know about how successful baseball teams are run. The Price trade made no sense from the second it happened.Compounding that with more signings just makes the situation worse for now and into the future. but hey, it brought back a bunch of bandwagoners because of 2 great months, said bandwagoners know so much about risk management and how shelling out 100-200 mil for pitchers who have so much mileage on their arms is smart baseball management.

Totally agree. All signings would be bad. Happ is good. Strong deductive reasoning would suggest that anyone that disagrees is a bandwagonner.

people who disagree make for great baseball banter, I'm all for that.

In your case my 'strong deductive reasoning' deduced that you have little knowledge on how successful baseball teams are run by reading multiple posts you've made on this board, not just this one.

Too bad you're not getting into the banter, I can tell by your strawman skills I'm missing out.

[cram]

Shapiro and TLC are making the best of a tough situation. While Jays fans had a great two month run, fact is we are now paying the price (no pun intended) for Alex trading away a bunch of good young arms to win now.

What "tough situation" are you referring to?

Instead of having access to young homegrown arms like Syndegaard, Hoffman, Norris, etc, the Jays now are forced to overpay for older arms. They can really overpay for an elite arm to the tune of $200 million, but those deals often turn sour quickly.

What about 110M for Zimmerman?

Or trading Tulo/Encarnacion for a top tier pitcher?