Can we talk about Marcus Stroman?

Randle McMurphy · Post #81 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:04 am

Centre Court wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/mikecormack/status/741094208933662720[/tweet]

Imagine the reaction if this was Dickey.

C Court · Post #82 » by **C Court** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:19 am

Randle McMurphy wrote:
Centre Court wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/mikecormack/status/741094208933662720[/tweet]

Imagine the reaction if this was Dickey.

Agreed. Because he's likeable, Stroman doesn't have the fans all over him, just yet. Buck and Pat said that hitters have figured him out. One of them said he's been "exposed".

SharoneWright · Post #83 » by **SharoneWright** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:22 am

Only saw highlights from tonite but his breaking stuff is just hanging up there and dropping right into the heart of the plate.... Not the best situation when you are 5"7 and throw a relatively flat heater.

RalphWiggum · Post #84 » by **RalphWiggum** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:28 am

Centre Court wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:
Centre Court wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/mikecormack/status/741094208933662720[/tweet]

Imagine the reaction if this was Dickey.

Agreed. Because he's likeable, Stroman doesn't have the fans all over him, just yet. Buck and Pat said that hitters have figured him out. One of them said he's been "exposed".

Dickie is as likable as a person can be, at least IMO. That's a separate discussion though.

Going into this season I really thought Marcus was going to regress (not to this level) and that Sanchez despite a sub par K/BB ratio was the future young stud of our rotation. Even during his phenomenal September last year I felt it was smoke and mirrors. He just never came across as pitcher dominating. He seemed to barely escape bad innings on numerous occasions that he isn't escaping anymore.

Somebody wrote earlier that hitters have figured him out and I don't think he has the stuff to beat big league hitters when they know what's coming especially that 2nd 3rd time through the order. Elite pitchers can still get outs when batters know what's coming.

I still think he has good enough stuff to be a solid 3rd man on a good rotation and that what we have seen these last few weeks is him at his worst but I have my doubts about him ever being elite. In order for him to ever be a 1/2 starter I think he's going to have to reinvent his approach to pitching. This could also be partially due to how games are being called but I am now at the point where I'm wishing AA maybe had sold high on him and hung onto other prospects ahead of him.

His personality and marketability made him more important to this team than maybe it should have been?

RalphWiggum · Post #85 » by **RalphWiggum** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:47 am

SharoneWright wrote:Only saw highlights from tonite but his breaking stuff is just hanging up there and dropping right into the heart of the plate.... Not the best situation when you are 5"7 and throw a relatively flat heater.

That's all BS, there is nothing flat about a fastball starting at 6 inches lower than where most pitchers release their fastball from. And even if it were flat that doesn't make it any easier to hit. Green font not available.

C Court · Post #86 » by **C Court** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:48 pm

In the past 17 seasons, only 6 pitchers under 5' 10" have started a MLB game.

That is a mind-boggling number when you consider that in a given season, there are around 200 different pitchers who start a game in the big leagues.

Shimso · Post #87 » by **Shimso** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:58 pm

RalphWiggum wrote:
Centre Court wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:Imagine the reaction if this was Dickey.

Agreed. Because he's likeable, Stroman doesn't have the fans all over him, just yet. Buck and Pat said that hitters have figured him out. One of them said he's been "exposed".

Dickie is as likable as a person can be, at least IMO. That's a separate discussion though.

Going into this season I really thought Marcus was going to regress (not to this level) and that Sanchez despite a sub par K/BB ratio was the future young stud of our rotation. Even during his phenomenal September last year I felt it was smoke and mirrors. He just never came across as pitcher dominating. He seemed to barely escape bad innings on numerous occasions that he isn't escaping anymore.

Somebody wrote earlier that hitters have figured him out and I don't think he has the stuff to beat big league hitters when they know what's coming especially that 2nd 3rd time through the order. Elite pitchers can still get outs when batters know what's coming.

I still think he has good enough stuff to be a solid 3rd man on a good rotation and that what we have seen these last few weeks is him at his worst but I have my doubts about him ever being elite. In order for him to ever be a 1/2 starter I think he's going to have to reinvent his approach to pitching. This could also be partially due to how games are being called but I am now at the point where I'm wishing AA maybe had sold high on him and hung onto other prospects ahead of him.

His personality and marketability made him more important to this team than maybe it should have been?

I don't think its likability so much as it is what it cost to get him - our own draft selection in Stroman vs losing Synd & TDA (and getting Thole) for RA.

Raider917 · Post #88 » by **Raider917** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:54 pm

are there options available with stroman? you can send a player down a few years after he was drafted cant you? i remember halladay was up and down early in his career

The_Hater · Post #89 » by **The_Hater** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:17 am

Raider917 wrote:are there options available with stroman? you can send a player down a few years after he was drafted cant you? i remember halladay was up and down early in his career

Put your hand up if you thought Stroman would be this season's Drew Hutchison?

I'm sure there are a few options left for sending him down to the minors. Or you could just flip him with Floyd or Chavez and put him in the pen for awhile. But he's still got really good stuff and was pitching at such a high level just last September/October it's worth it to ride this out and hope that guy reappears.

C Court · Post #90 » by **C Court** » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:56 pm

Dirk Hayhurst's new blog post addresses the Stroman v Height issue.

http://dirkhayhurst.com/2016/06/height-doesnt-measure-heart-but-it-does-measure/

Being tall has its advantages, especially when it comes to pitching. A taller pitcher has a much higher release point, meaning when the ball comes out of his hand, said hand is higher up than the hand of a shorter pitcher. As the ball leaves the hand of the taller pitcher, it must travel further down hill to reach the catcher’s mitt. A shorter pitcher’s same pitch, at the same velocity, will not have the same amount of vertical movement purely because of his lack of height. Therefore, a small pitcher must find other ways to produce a similar amount of movement, usually by altering velocity or finding a way to increase revolutions

Stroman’s sinker movement ranks dead last in H movement. This year, of all the starters throwing sinkers, Stroman’s sinker has the least vertical movement.

Sifu · Post #91 » by **Sifu** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:30 pm

How about all those sidearm pitchers. They must really suck cuz their release point is really low.

The_Hater · Post #92 » by **The_Hater** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:08 pm

Sifu wrote:How about all those sidearm pitchers. They must really suck cuz their release point is really low.

Well their breaking pitches are moving more side to side than up/down like an overhand pitcher. And side-armers generally don't fool batters that hit opposite of them nearly as well. Nobody is saying that a pitcher will suck because of this, only that hitters might see the ball better

Raps in 4 · Post #93 » by **Raps in 4** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:56 pm

Randle McMurphy wrote:
Centre Court wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/mikecormack/status/741094208933662720[/tweet]

Imagine the reaction if this was Dickey.

DIckey is 41 and has never even sniffed the numbers he was supposed to after we traded our two top prospects for him. That's why people rip on him. With Stroman, we're talking about a kid who can still turn it around, and he's a home-grown prospect, so there is nothing to lose if he doesn't.

Randle McMurphy · Post #94 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:14 pm

Raps in 4 wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:
Centre Court wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/mikecormack/status/741094208933662720[/tweet]

Imagine the reaction if this was Dickey.

DIckey is 41 and has never even sniffed the numbers he was supposed to after we traded our two top prospects for him. That's why people rip on him. With Stroman, we're talking about a kid who can still turn it around, and he's a home-grown prospect, so there is nothing to lose if he doesn't.

Hence why I said imagine the reaction if it was Dickey. They're held to way different standards.

youreachiteach · Post #95 » by **youreachiteach** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:23 pm

I read a good article today about the fact that Marcus needs to stop throwing cutters and change-ups (or at least greatly reduce them.) According to the article, he only used 4 change-ups and 6 cutters the whole game--his best one for a long time in terms of contact %.

Here's hoping for more success today.

C Court · Post #96 » by **C Court** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:57 pm

No success today with 7 runs in under 4 innings.

Basketball_Jones · Post #97 » by **Basketball_Jones** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:09 pm

Never thought he was a true ace, but seemed to have a knack for getting guys to ground out. All in all, I thought he'd be a decent starting pitcher though.

The_Hater · Post #98 » by **The_Hater** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:50 pm

Stroman is neither as good as the guy who was lights out in Sept-Oct nor as bad as the guy we've witnessed in May-June. But we still need him to find that middle ground sooner rather than later. he seems mentally tougher than most so I'm confident that he'll figure this out.

Skin Blues · Post #99 » by **Skin Blues** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:00 pm

I'm just amazed he was able to grow 6 inches the past few years when he was one of the best pitchers inn the league, and then somehow shrunk down to his current size.

Raps_Swingman · Post #100 » by **Raps_Swingman** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:24 pm

ERA is bloated by some earlier starts where our bullpen went full turnstile mode.

His FIP is right in line with projections at 3.78 and his GB/FB percentages are basically on par with last season.

The difference? .237 BABIP last season vs. .320 this season. That number should come down to around .290-.300.

At the end of the day he's got to get back to pitching instead of placing the ball. His pitches are still moving, but now everyone has seen them and this is where changing speeds and tactics becomes important for his success.