Sanchez will continue starting in 6-man rotation (Pg. 9)

[The_Hater]

I think we're seeing some indecision and poor leadership from a management side. They appear to be either flip flopping, or trying to deflect some criticism until the transition is made and everyone can get on with it. Surely they won't go with a 6 man rotation. So it probably is a matter of time before Sanchez is in the bullpen. What bothers me is Atkins saying they see Sanchez being most valuable in relief in game 7 of the World Series. I think it's presumptive to say the Blue Jays will be playing in the WS, and even more so to suggest that by putting their best starter in the bullpen, is how they plan on getting there. Seems counter-intuitive, are they really in win now mode? Seems like they have one foot in and one foot out, because they obviously don't want to be reckless with Sanchez' arm understandably so. Personally I don't understand if there is such a thing as protecting an arm, some teams do all the right things and their young arms still get hurt.

Maybe they're just between a rock and a hard place, with managing Sanchez. I think Liriano will be much improved with the Blue Jays for some reason, like sub 4 ERA. Maybe even 3.50 ERA, don't ask me why.

Since they've been saying that Sanchez would be heading to the bullpen since April, if that does happen I don't see the flip-flopping. Shapiro says it's happening, Gibby had been saying it all season until today when he backtracked to 'nothing has been decided yet' but he's not part of the front office management.

If it doesn't happen then obviously they changed their minds but I'm not sure how making a different decision gets filed under 'bad management'. I'm sure that it's not an easy decision to make either way. Lots of things consider.

[Santoki]

Tim and Sid made a good point today, that the agent for Sanchez might be pulling some strings behind the scene. It's pulling the Boras/Strasburg power play without throwing Sanchez under the bus in front of his teammates. At the very least, you have to figure that he's involved in the conversation while he attempts to keep Sanchez healthy angling for a huge pay day in a few years.

That's exactly what I've been saying for days. Sanchez has every incentive to protect his arm and he may feel like moving to the bullpen will help do that. Except no one really seems to care what he thinks at all but clearly he can't admit to it.

[RotR]

Tim and Sid made a good point today, that the agent for Sanchez might be pulling some strings behind the scene. It's pulling the Boras/Strasburg power play without throwing Sanchez under the bus in front of his teammates. At the very least, you have to figure that he's involved in the conversation while he attempts to keep Sanchez healthy angling for a huge pay day in a few years.

Can't believe it took this long for this point to be made.

[Kurtz]

That's exactly what I've been saying for days. Sanchez has every incentive to protect his arm and he may feel like moving to the bullpen will help do that. Except no one really seems to care what he thinks at all but clearly he can't admit to it.

If Sanchez really wanted to move to the pen without catching any flack, he'd say something like: "I'm ready to do whatever's best for the team." His agent would likely write that line for him.

Instead he just said this: "I feel strong. I haven't even broken a sweat," he told Sportsnet's Ben Nicholson-Smith Monday. "I don't feel fatigued. I haven't felt fatigued all year."


That doesn't sound like a guy who's worried that he might be wearing out, it sounds like a guy who absolutely desires to continue doing what he's doing.

[Santoki]

That's exactly what I've been saying for days. Sanchez has every incentive to protect his arm and he may feel like moving to the bullpen will help do that. Except no one really seems to care what he thinks at all but clearly he can't admit to it.

If Sanchez really wanted to move to the pen without catching any flack, he'd say something like: "I'm ready to do whatever's best for the team." His agent would likely write that line for him.

Instead he just said this: "I feel strong. I haven't even broken a sweat," he told Sportsnet's Ben Nicholson-Smith Monday. "I don't feel fatigued. I haven't felt fatigued all year."


That doesn't sound like a guy who's worried that he might be wearing out, it sounds like a guy who absolutely desires to continue doing what he's doing.

It could just as easily be something a guy who wants to save face with his teammates would say. It's stronger than "I'll do whatever is best for the team". It still doesn't rule out the possibility that privately he wants to protect his arm. You have to remember he's going to have a lot of people in his ear and conventional baseball wisdom says that he shouldn't start for much longer. Whether that's right or wrong has never been really relevant to that wisdom. But a lot of people subscribe to it.

My point when I made this a couple of days back is that we're not getting any real insight into what Sanchez thinks and no one had really bothered to ask him (besides BNS I guess). I suppose they figured they would get a non answer and we will never get the truth anyways but damn it's at least a POV that should have been explored more.

[RotR]

Tim and Sid made a good point today, that the agent for Sanchez might be pulling some strings behind the scene. It's pulling the Boras/Strasburg power play without throwing Sanchez under the bus in front of his teammates. At the very least, you have to figure that he's involved in the conversation while he attempts to keep Sanchez healthy angling for a huge pay day in a few years.

That's exactly what I've been saying for days. Sanchez has every incentive to protect his arm and he may feel like moving to the bullpen will help do that. Except no one really seems to care what he thinks at all but clearly he can't admit to it.

Exactly. We will never know. Neither will the reporters creating the sound bytes. Aaron and his agent are Definitely involved in this decision. Regarding Russell Martin's comments the other day, even he could know but won't throw Sanchize under the bus. Even Aaron knows fickle fans will think less of him if he comes out and says his arm is tired.

Everyone's like Rah, OOgh, Do IT Aaron!. He's come a long way, remember that. There is all kinds of private discussions, minutia of the high-performance science we're not privy too.

Y'all think Shatkins don't want to let him finish as a starter if it made sense against the perhaps inconclusive but still much more comprehensive and up to date data on sports science than we have? These teams are part of the deterioration of health care we have as they pluck the best doctors and researchers in the world to help make these decisions. Some teams have portable ultrasounds and other technology to monitor any minor detail possible.

If you wait for a drop-off in velocity, spin rate, durability, it's likely too late. Pitcher's get hurt because they pitch. There is no conclusive data that US as the public can point to. But I can guarantee you they have data with higher % chances of making the proper decision than we do.

Shapiro was also correct that there are numbers that show, especially considering the Jays woes getting to Osuna, that high leverage relievers can be more valuable than starters.

All that said, I'd love to see him be able to go, as it is unique with his weight gain and easy mechanics. The Jays have been one of the best teams the last few years preventing pitcher injuries. And they want to win. They're not going to make this decision on a Verducci effect or gut feel. They're going to make it on the most current science and a duty to a human being not to ruin his arm. He's already been allowed to push his limits.

Enjoy the Sanchize. Enjoy the Jays. Enjoy baseball. Try to realize there are the best professionals in the world being paid a lot of money to make this decision, right or wrong. They aren't reading online articles to form their opinion.

Let's hope they get it right.

Go Blue Jays! Cheers!

[RotR]

That's exactly what I've been saying for days. Sanchez has every incentive to protect his arm and he may feel like moving to the bullpen will help do that. Except no one really seems to care what he thinks at all but clearly he can't admit to it.

If Sanchez really wanted to move to the pen without catching any flack, he'd say something like: "I'm ready to do whatever's best for the team." His agent would likely write that line for him.

Instead he just said this: "I feel strong. I haven't even broken a sweat," he told Sportsnet's Ben Nicholson-Smith Monday. "I don't feel fatigued. I haven't felt fatigued all year."


That doesn't sound like a guy who's worried that he might be wearing out, it sounds like a guy who absolutely desires to continue doing what he's doing.

Again, you need to read nuance into an athlete's cliché answers. He can't exactly say he can't do it. But Aaron and his agent could be having exactly the opposite conversations behind the scenes with the team providing cover. This is standard sports secrecy and smokescreens.

We'll never know what they know and it's a big media kerfuffle about nothing to fuel talk radio. And no offence, but those that say **** it, we have a chance, get over your need for immediate self-fulfillment and embrace the beauty of fandom.

I hope the Jays and Aaron find a way to do what's best for him with his blessing.

[polo007]

Read on Twitter

HOUSTON – Before everyone gets carried away with the comments John Gibbons made about Aaron Sanchez’s future role – wait, it’s too late? – consider for a moment what he actually said.

“Truthfully, we’re still debating what’s going to happen,” the Toronto Blue Jays manager told writers in his office Wednesday, and when asked what part of the plan they were still debating, he replied: “The total plan. Nothing is locked in stone yet.”

So he’s not definitely going to the bullpen?

“I have no info for you right at this moment.”

When a writer joked about being confused, Gibbons quipped, "Well you should. I am, too."

Now, if your interpretation of that is that the Blue Jays are embarking on a radical rethink of their plan to transition Sanchez to the bullpen, well, you’re looking for what you want to see there.

The fact is, that’s not happening. General manager Ross Atkins was pretty clear about that Monday after the acquisition of Francisco Liriano – who joined the Blue Jays on Wednesday – and president and CEO Mark Shapiro was unequivocal Tuesday when speaking with Bob McCown on Sportsnet 590 the FAN. "At some point he’s not going to start anymore this year," said Shapiro. "He will not run 230 innings and pitch through October. That’s not going to happen. That can’t happen. No one in their right mind, including him, would suggest that can happen."

The guess here is that Sanchez starts Saturday in the Kansas City Royals – Liriano gets the ball in Friday’s series opener – and after that the process of transitioning him to the bullpen begins. Perhaps there’s some room for a bit of back and forth on this between the 24-year-old and the club, but the likelihood is that the Blue Jays will play the role of responsible parents making the sensible choice for their dedicated and determined child.

As much as the science isn’t definitive, Sanchez would have 10 starts remaining after Saturday. Through his first 21 outings, he’s averaged 6.2 innings per outing, which has taken him to a career-high of 139.1, six more than his previous best established in 2014.

Even if he averaged just five innings per outing from here on out, he’d finish the regular season just under 200. There could be up to six more starts in the post-season, should the Blue Jays go deep into October, and an innings spike in the area of 100 is without doubt risky.

The Blue Jays won’t let him chance it – even if Sanchez is in the midst of a Cy-Young-Award-calibre season, and surely torn about the drama all around him.

[ldnk]

Injuries to young professional baseball pitchers cannot be prevented solely by restricting number of innings pitched.
Karakolis et al. J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 2016.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
The Major League Baseball schedule is longer and more intensive than minor and amateur leagues. As a result, major league pitchers endure a considerably higher cumulative workload throughout the season. Ligament, tendon, muscle, and bone tissues in young pitchers need time to adapt to the workload a major league pitcher must endure. To mitigate the risk of overuse injury, and allow time for tissue adaptation to occur, most teams limit the number of innings a young pitcher may throw. This study examined the relationship between innings pitched and future injury in young professional baseball pitchers.
METHODS:
All pitchers under 25 years of age that pitched at least one third of an inning in Major League Baseball during the 2002-2007 seasons were included in this study. Total innings pitched were accumulated for each season across three levels of professional baseball (Major League Baseball, and two levels of Minor Leagues). Regression analyses were preformed comparing innings pitched during a single season and difference in innings pitched over consecutive seasons to future injury, as measured by time spent on the disabled list.
RESULTS:
No significant correlation was found between innings pitched and future injury or consecutive season innings pitched difference and future injury. No significant differences were found when pitchers were split into groups based upon consecutive season innings pitched difference cutoffs.

Should We Limit Innings Pitched After Ulnar Collateral Ligament Reconstruction in Major League Baseball Pitchers?
Erikson et al. Am J Sports Med. 2016.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction (UCLR) has become a common procedure among Major League Baseball (MLB) pitchers. It is unclear if a limit on innings pitched after UCLR should be instituted to prevent revision UCLR.
HYPOTHESIS:
Number of innings pitched and number of pitches thrown after UCLR will not affect whether a pitcher requires a revision UCLR.
STUDY DESIGN:
Descriptive laboratory study.
METHODS:
All MLB pitchers between 1974 and 2015 who pitched at least 1 full season after UCLR were included in this study. Pitch counts and innings pitched for the first full season after UCLR as well as total pitch count and total innings pitched were recorded. Pitch counts and innings pitched were compared among players who required revision UCLR and those who did not.
RESULTS:
Overall, 154 pitchers were included. Of these, 135 pitchers did not require revision UCLR while 19 underwent revision UCLR. No significant difference existed between pitchers who underwent revision UCLR and those who did not when comparing number of innings pitched in the season after UCLR (79.4 ± 46.7 vs 90.1 ± 58.6; P = .9016), number of pitches thrown in the season after UCLR (1233.2 ± 710.4 vs 1449.2 ± 904.1; P = .7337), number of innings pitched in the pitcher's career after UCLR (357.4 ± 312.0 vs 399.3 ± 446.4; P = .6945), and number of pitches thrown in the pitcher's career after UCLR (5632.7 ± 4583.9 vs 5674.7 ± 5755.4; P = .4789), respectively. Furthermore, no difference existed in revision rate between pitchers who pitched more or less than 180 innings in the first full season after UCLR (P = .6678).
CONCLUSION:
The number of innings pitched and number of pitches thrown in the first full season as well as over a player's career after UCLR are not associated with an increased risk of a pitcher requiring revision UCLR.

[YogiStewart]

Can the same thing not be said in today's example of Aaron Nola? Velocity barely dropped, and did see a huge jump in innings last year

is that an outlier? there stats?
this stuff needs to be known before setting these apparently-arbitrary inning limits that, really, don't touch on pitch velocity or pitch count

I'm just playing devil's advocate because I have no idea what the best plan is, but lean more on the "let him continue to start" train. Their pitch counts weren't that far off, with Nola I believe coming in lower than Sanchez's. The amount of sliders/curveballs that are thrown should be taken into account as well. If that's the case, then Sanchez throws more like a reliever, with 74% of his pitches being fastballs, while only 16% of his pitches are the curveball. Compare that to Nola, who throws the slider almost 34% of the time, or even Lance McCullers who throws the curveball a whopping 49.5%!

the other day, there was an interesting interview on the FAN590. i didn't hear the person's actual title, but he was talking about how in the dark most MLB clubs are regarding player risk assessment. he made a comparison to MLS - of all leagues - where a player was getting an ultrasound on the sidelines WHILE TECHNICALLY STILL IN PLAY. said that, theoretically, baseball can be assessing players' tendon and muscle strain/wear during the game. 6th inning, you do an ultrasound on Sanchez, look for signs of fatigue and, if they're not there, put him out for another inning. they're there? sit him down.

pro sports is still dumb enough (in all leagues) to use guts and eyeballs and tradition to dictate player management. we all remember the Raptors not using "ghost players" because Casey pretty much said that it didn't make sense to him to use that for coaching and player assessment. baseball, for all of its love of stats, is still very clueless on pitcher management. even something like catchers - you have a guy that's usually built like a stocky tank, and he's squatting for 9 innings. how often do catchers get days off? not as much as they likely require to ensure career longevity. last year, the Jays kept on trotting out a hamstring-injured Martin instead of giving him 1-2 weeks' rest (and this is when they were a 0.500 team). not the best asset management strategy

[YogiStewart]

the funniest thing?
poor Gibby's managing for a job next year. new GM who clearly brings in his own men.
all the sudden, they're replacing a Cy Young candidate with one of the poorest starters in the league.
if the Jays don't make the playoffs, Gibbons will definitely be axed. in fact, if he loses in the 1st round, i can see him being fired.
man....

[The_Hater]

the funniest thing?
poor Gibby's managing for a job next year. new GM who clearly brings in his own men.
all the sudden, they're replacing a Cy Young candidate with one of the poorest starters in the league.
if the Jays don't make the playoffs, Gibbons will definitely be axed. in fact, if he loses in the 1st round, i can see him being fired.
man....

I'm willing to bet that Gibby is back next season irregardless of making the playoffs or not.

[Nolan]

God do I love GIbby.

[Kurtz]

I hope the Jays and Aaron find a way to do what's best for him with his blessing.

You're missing the most important point. Putting Sanchez in the pen is just as likely to hurt as help his health.

[Rhettmatic]

Read on Twitter

[Skin Blues]

Injuries to young professional baseball pitchers cannot be prevented solely by restricting number of innings pitched.
Karakolis et al. J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 2016.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
The Major League Baseball schedule is longer and more intensive than minor and amateur leagues. As a result, major league pitchers endure a considerably higher cumulative workload throughout the season. Ligament, tendon, muscle, and bone tissues in young pitchers need time to adapt to the workload a major league pitcher must endure. To mitigate the risk of overuse injury, and allow time for tissue adaptation to occur, most teams limit the number of innings a young pitcher may throw. This study examined the relationship between innings pitched and future injury in young professional baseball pitchers.
METHODS:
All pitchers under 25 years of age that pitched at least one third of an inning in Major League Baseball during the 2002-2007 seasons were included in this study. Total innings pitched were accumulated for each season across three levels of professional baseball (Major League Baseball, and two levels of Minor Leagues). Regression analyses were preformed comparing innings pitched during a single season and difference in innings pitched over consecutive seasons to future injury, as measured by time spent on the disabled list.
RESULTS:
No significant correlation was found between innings pitched and future injury or consecutive season innings pitched difference and future injury. No significant differences were found when pitchers were split into groups based upon consecutive season innings pitched difference cutoffs.

Should We Limit Innings Pitched After Ulnar Collateral Ligament Reconstruction in Major League Baseball Pitchers?
Erikson et al. Am J Sports Med. 2016.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction (UCLR) has become a common procedure among Major League Baseball (MLB) pitchers. It is unclear if a limit on innings pitched after UCLR should be instituted to prevent revision UCLR.
HYPOTHESIS:
Number of innings pitched and number of pitches thrown after UCLR will not affect whether a pitcher requires a revision UCLR.
STUDY DESIGN:
Descriptive laboratory study.
METHODS:
All MLB pitchers between 1974 and 2015 who pitched at least 1 full season after UCLR were included in this study. Pitch counts and innings pitched for the first full season after UCLR as well as total pitch count and total innings pitched were recorded. Pitch counts and innings pitched were compared among players who required revision UCLR and those who did not.
RESULTS:
Overall, 154 pitchers were included. Of these, 135 pitchers did not require revision UCLR while 19 underwent revision UCLR. No significant difference existed between pitchers who underwent revision UCLR and those who did not when comparing number of innings pitched in the season after UCLR (79.4 ± 46.7 vs 90.1 ± 58.6; P = .9016), number of pitches thrown in the season after UCLR (1233.2 ± 710.4 vs 1449.2 ± 904.1; P = .7337), number of innings pitched in the pitcher's career after UCLR (357.4 ± 312.0 vs 399.3 ± 446.4; P = .6945), and number of pitches thrown in the pitcher's career after UCLR (5632.7 ± 4583.9 vs 5674.7 ± 5755.4; P = .4789), respectively. Furthermore, no difference existed in revision rate between pitchers who pitched more or less than 180 innings in the first full season after UCLR (P = .6678).
CONCLUSION:
The number of innings pitched and number of pitches thrown in the first full season as well as over a player's career after UCLR are not associated with an increased risk of a pitcher requiring revision UCLR.

This generally agrees with my position, but you need to be VERY careful with studies like this. It's extremely easy to fudge the numbers to fit whatever narrative you want. And it's very questionable to include all pitchers who threw at least 0.1 IP in a study. Lots and lots of questions, here, without having lots of eyes looking at the entire study in depth.

[ldnk]

Injuries to young professional baseball pitchers cannot be prevented solely by restricting number of innings pitched.
Karakolis et al. J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 2016.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
The Major League Baseball schedule is longer and more intensive than minor and amateur leagues. As a result, major league pitchers endure a considerably higher cumulative workload throughout the season. Ligament, tendon, muscle, and bone tissues in young pitchers need time to adapt to the workload a major league pitcher must endure. To mitigate the risk of overuse injury, and allow time for tissue adaptation to occur, most teams limit the number of innings a young pitcher may throw. This study examined the relationship between innings pitched and future injury in young professional baseball pitchers.
METHODS:
All pitchers under 25 years of age that pitched at least one third of an inning in Major League Baseball during the 2002-2007 seasons were included in this study. Total innings pitched were accumulated for each season across three levels of professional baseball (Major League Baseball, and two levels of Minor Leagues). Regression analyses were preformed comparing innings pitched during a single season and difference in innings pitched over consecutive seasons to future injury, as measured by time spent on the disabled list.
RESULTS:
No significant correlation was found between innings pitched and future injury or consecutive season innings pitched difference and future injury. No significant differences were found when pitchers were split into groups based upon consecutive season innings pitched difference cutoffs.

Should We Limit Innings Pitched After Ulnar Collateral Ligament Reconstruction in Major League Baseball Pitchers?
Erikson et al. Am J Sports Med. 2016.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction (UCLR) has become a common procedure among Major League Baseball (MLB) pitchers. It is unclear if a limit on innings pitched after UCLR should be instituted to prevent revision UCLR.
HYPOTHESIS:
Number of innings pitched and number of pitches thrown after UCLR will not affect whether a pitcher requires a revision UCLR.
STUDY DESIGN:
Descriptive laboratory study.
METHODS:
All MLB pitchers between 1974 and 2015 who pitched at least 1 full season after UCLR were included in this study. Pitch counts and innings pitched for the first full season after UCLR as well as total pitch count and total innings pitched were recorded. Pitch counts and innings pitched were compared among players who required revision UCLR and those who did not.
RESULTS:
Overall, 154 pitchers were included. Of these, 135 pitchers did not require revision UCLR while 19 underwent revision UCLR. No significant difference existed between pitchers who underwent revision UCLR and those who did not when comparing number of innings pitched in the season after UCLR (79.4 ± 46.7 vs 90.1 ± 58.6; P = .9016), number of pitches thrown in the season after UCLR (1233.2 ± 710.4 vs 1449.2 ± 904.1; P = .7337), number of innings pitched in the pitcher's career after UCLR (357.4 ± 312.0 vs 399.3 ± 446.4; P = .6945), and number of pitches thrown in the pitcher's career after UCLR (5632.7 ± 4583.9 vs 5674.7 ± 5755.4; P = .4789), respectively. Furthermore, no difference existed in revision rate between pitchers who pitched more or less than 180 innings in the first full season after UCLR (P = .6678).
CONCLUSION:
The number of innings pitched and number of pitches thrown in the first full season as well as over a player's career after UCLR are not associated with an increased risk of a pitcher requiring revision UCLR.

This generally agrees with my position, but you need to be VERY careful with studies like this. It's extremely easy to fudge the numbers to fit whatever narrative you want. And it's very questionable to include all pitchers who threw at least 0.1 IP in a study. Lots and lots of questions, here, without having lots of eyes looking at the entire study in depth.

They completed a subgroup analysis looking at pitchers who had higher inning counts. The results are the same. There is no correlation between innings pitched and subsequent injury.

[Skin Blues]

Injuries to young professional baseball pitchers cannot be prevented solely by restricting number of innings pitched.
Karakolis et al. J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 2016.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
The Major League Baseball schedule is longer and more intensive than minor and amateur leagues. As a result, major league pitchers endure a considerably higher cumulative workload throughout the season. Ligament, tendon, muscle, and bone tissues in young pitchers need time to adapt to the workload a major league pitcher must endure. To mitigate the risk of overuse injury, and allow time for tissue adaptation to occur, most teams limit the number of innings a young pitcher may throw. This study examined the relationship between innings pitched and future injury in young professional baseball pitchers.
METHODS:
All pitchers under 25 years of age that pitched at least one third of an inning in Major League Baseball during the 2002-2007 seasons were included in this study. Total innings pitched were accumulated for each season across three levels of professional baseball (Major League Baseball, and two levels of Minor Leagues). Regression analyses were preformed comparing innings pitched during a single season and difference in innings pitched over consecutive seasons to future injury, as measured by time spent on the disabled list.
RESULTS:
No significant correlation was found between innings pitched and future injury or consecutive season innings pitched difference and future injury. No significant differences were found when pitchers were split into groups based upon consecutive season innings pitched difference cutoffs.

Should We Limit Innings Pitched After Ulnar Collateral Ligament Reconstruction in Major League Baseball Pitchers?
Erikson et al. Am J Sports Med. 2016.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction (UCLR) has become a common procedure among Major League Baseball (MLB) pitchers. It is unclear if a limit on innings pitched after UCLR should be instituted to prevent revision UCLR.
HYPOTHESIS:
Number of innings pitched and number of pitches thrown after UCLR will not affect whether a pitcher requires a revision UCLR.
STUDY DESIGN:
Descriptive laboratory study.
METHODS:
All MLB pitchers between 1974 and 2015 who pitched at least 1 full season after UCLR were included in this study. Pitch counts and innings pitched for the first full season after UCLR as well as total pitch count and total innings pitched were recorded. Pitch counts and innings pitched were compared among players who required revision UCLR and those who did not.
RESULTS:
Overall, 154 pitchers were included. Of these, 135 pitchers did not require revision UCLR while 19 underwent revision UCLR. No significant difference existed between pitchers who underwent revision UCLR and those who did not when comparing number of innings pitched in the season after UCLR (79.4 ± 46.7 vs 90.1 ± 58.6; P = .9016), number of pitches thrown in the season after UCLR (1233.2 ± 710.4 vs 1449.2 ± 904.1; P = .7337), number of innings pitched in the pitcher's career after UCLR (357.4 ± 312.0 vs 399.3 ± 446.4; P = .6945), and number of pitches thrown in the pitcher's career after UCLR (5632.7 ± 4583.9 vs 5674.7 ± 5755.4; P = .4789), respectively. Furthermore, no difference existed in revision rate between pitchers who pitched more or less than 180 innings in the first full season after UCLR (P = .6678).
CONCLUSION:
The number of innings pitched and number of pitches thrown in the first full season as well as over a player's career after UCLR are not associated with an increased risk of a pitcher requiring revision UCLR.

This generally agrees with my position, but you need to be VERY careful with studies like this. It's extremely easy to fudge the numbers to fit whatever narrative you want. And it's very questionable to include all pitchers who threw at least 0.1 IP in a study. Lots and lots of questions, here, without having lots of eyes looking at the entire study in depth.

They completed a subgroup analysis looking at pitchers who had higher inning counts. The results are the same. There is no correlation between innings pitched and subsequent injury.

I'm sure they did lots of tests, it doesn't mean they're valid, or that they're even measuring the right things and accounting for variables. It's possible it's a good study, but without having data to look at I would remain very skeptical. Do you have a link to the full study?

[StopitLeo]

This generally agrees with my position, but you need to be VERY careful with studies like this. It's extremely easy to fudge the numbers to fit whatever narrative you want. And it's very questionable to include all pitchers who threw at least 0.1 IP in a study. Lots and lots of questions, here, without having lots of eyes looking at the entire study in depth.

We need to remember that ligaments connect two bones so we are actually looking at the forces that the UCL experiences when the arm is accelerating (to basically keep your ulna attached to your humerus). This will be highly dependent on mechanics and velocity so comparing total number of innings pitched isn't particularly meaningful in my opinion. Dickey has no UCL and he throws drastically more pitches than Chapman. There is zero chance Dickey injures his UCL before Chapman so it clearly isn't just a volume of pitches issue.

[bluerap23]

That's exactly what I've been saying for days. Sanchez has every incentive to protect his arm and he may feel like moving to the bullpen will help do that. Except no one really seems to care what he thinks at all but clearly he can't admit to it.

If Sanchez really wanted to move to the pen without catching any flack, he'd say something like: "I'm ready to do whatever's best for the team." His agent would likely write that line for him.

Instead he just said this: "I feel strong. I haven't even broken a sweat," he told Sportsnet's Ben Nicholson-Smith Monday. "I don't feel fatigued. I haven't felt fatigued all year."


That doesn't sound like a guy who's worried that he might be wearing out, it sounds like a guy who absolutely desires to continue doing what he's doing.

Sounds like a beast. Love the competitive spirit.
Interesting stat. Roger clemens pitched 98 innings in 1985. In 1986 he pitched 254