Cleveland Guardians (59-52) vs. Toronto Blue Jays (60-50) | August 12-14

[linery88]

We agree to disagree. My definition of a good hitter is different than yours. I put less of an emphasis on wRC+ than you do for a variety of reasons, due to the certain drawbacks I consider of using that metric. Regardless if he played 162 games, Merrifield still had 184 Hits last year. Batted .277 last year. Marcus Semien batted .265 last year, and everyone raved how much of a good hitter he was. Merrifield is not the all-star he once was, but I would play him more than Biggio and Tapia. Merrifield is having a down year, but until Springer comes back, he should be given the chance to be in the lineup regularly from my perspective.

Here`s how i feel about it.Merrfield came in,and had a great start,and it was noticeable.Then it was ruined by Schneider.
Should have left him where he was...batting 9th or whatever it was,and leave him there.Certain guys are comfortable,and do a good enough job where they are at.Merrifield was doing an ok job.His previous numbers dont matter much to me.I,m not going to debate how good of a hitter he is now or before.He is the best guy they could get at the deadline,and it was working.All that matters to me is what he was doing when he first came here,and I,m sick of Schneiders lineup moves now,with todays lineup adding even more fuel to the blaze.Its no good to have players wondering where they are going to be batting from day to day,excluding Vladdy.
Schneider is out of control.
No point in me bringing him up anymore,unless he starts the right lineup.

I do not disagree with your post. You are right to say it serves little purpose to debate right now how much of a good hitter Merrifield was in previous years, and focus now on the Present. I like you do not understand the constant lineup juggling of Schneider also.

Sometimes if It is not Broke, you should not fix it. 9th was a good spot for Merrifield. Hopefully, this organization looks outside to the rest of the League, and conducts a true Managerial Search in the off-season. The question will be (depending on how the rest of the season goes), if Ross Atkins or Shapiro should be the guys doing that managerial search?

Who else do you think should possibly do the search besides Atkins/Shapiro ?
I just assumed it would be them who do the search no matter how things turned out this season.

[Mehar]

Here`s how i feel about it.Merrfield came in,and had a great start,and it was noticeable.Then it was ruined by Schneider.
Should have left him where he was...batting 9th or whatever it was,and leave him there.Certain guys are comfortable,and do a good enough job where they are at.Merrifield was doing an ok job.His previous numbers dont matter much to me.I,m not going to debate how good of a hitter he is now or before.He is the best guy they could get at the deadline,and it was working.All that matters to me is what he was doing when he first came here,and I,m sick of Schneiders lineup moves now,with todays lineup adding even more fuel to the blaze.Its no good to have players wondering where they are going to be batting from day to day,excluding Vladdy.
Schneider is out of control.
No point in me bringing him up anymore,unless he starts the right lineup.

I do not disagree with your post. You are right to say it serves little purpose to debate right now how much of a good hitter Merrifield was in previous years, and focus now on the Present. I like you do not understand the constant lineup juggling of Schneider also.

Sometimes if It is not Broke, you should not fix it. 9th was a good spot for Merrifield. Hopefully, this organization looks outside to the rest of the League, and conducts a true Managerial Search in the off-season. The question will be (depending on how the rest of the season goes), if Ross Atkins or Shapiro should be the guys doing that managerial search?

Who else do you think should possibly do the search besides Atkins/Shapiro ?
I just assumed it would be them who do the search no matter how things turned out this season.

If this team fails to make the 3rd WC, I would hope Rogers would fire both Shapiro and Atkins, and clean house from top to bottom. These guys have had 7 years in Toronto. The Rotation and Bullpen have been a question mark for 7 years. Several of their free agent signings have backfired. Ryu did not work out after the first year, and was signed for 4 years when no team was offering 4 years. The Jays were the only team to guarantee Kikuchi 3 years, and he has been a disaster, after Seattle declined their option on him. Berrios was handed a 131 million extension, when Atkins should have waited to see how the year played out. Berrios would have gotten 2 year offers in free agency after his shaky year, if he was not foolishly given 7 years prematurely since Atkins said signing him was a major priority last off-season.

We have a part-time CF in Springer who got a 150 million contract, and has elbow, quad and oblique injuries always nagging him as he is in and out of the lineup. Sometimes he has to play DH because of how fragile his body is. Tanner Roark was released, and the Jays ate his 20 million as he was a Bust. This team has a 174 million payroll. Significantly higher than Tampa, Cleveland, Seattle, Minnesota, and Baltimore, and yet we arguably have worst pitching depth than all of them. Rogers has made the commitment financially. Shapiro and Atkins have not gotten the job done, plain and simple. Both these guys hired Montoyo also. He is long gone. The Buck now Stops with Shapiro and Atkins after 7 years, if this team is out of the post-season.

[Hottie McShotty]

I do not disagree with your post. You are right to say it serves little purpose to debate right now how much of a good hitter Merrifield was in previous years, and focus now on the Present. I like you do not understand the constant lineup juggling of Schneider also.

Sometimes if It is not Broke, you should not fix it. 9th was a good spot for Merrifield. Hopefully, this organization looks outside to the rest of the League, and conducts a true Managerial Search in the off-season. The question will be (depending on how the rest of the season goes), if Ross Atkins or Shapiro should be the guys doing that managerial search?

Who else do you think should possibly do the search besides Atkins/Shapiro ?
I just assumed it would be them who do the search no matter how things turned out this season.

If this team fails to make the 3rd WC, I would hope Rogers would fire both Shapiro and Atkins, and clean house from top to bottom. These guys have had 7 years in Toronto. The Rotation and Bullpen have been a question mark for 7 years. Several of their free agent signings have backfired. Ryu did not work out after the first year, and was signed for 4 years when no team was offering 4 years. The Jays were the only team to guarantee Kikuchi 3 years, and he has been a disaster, after Seattle declined their option on him. Berrios was handed a 131 million extension, when Atkins should have waited to see how the year played out. Berrios would have gotten 2 year offers in free agency after his shaky year, if he was not foolishly given 7 years prematurely since Atkins said signing him was a major priority last off-season.

We have a part-time CF in Springer who got a 150 million contract, and has elbow, quad and oblique injuries always nagging him as he is in and out of the lineup. Sometimes he has to play DH because of how fragile his body is. Tanner Roark was released, and the Jays ate his 20 million as he was a Bust. This team has a 174 million payroll. Significantly higher than Tampa, Cleveland, Seattle, Minnesota, and Baltimore, and yet we arguably have worst pitching depth than all of them. Rogers has made the commitment financially. Shapiro and Atkins have not gotten the job done, plain and simple. Both these guys hired Montoyo also. He is long gone. The Buck now Stops with Shapiro and Atkins after 7 years, if this team is out of the post-season.

Indeed. You can't deny the facts. It's there for all of you to see. Plain and simple, this management team has failed. The pitching has been a major problem. A 3.97 ERA is just not going to cut it folks! We need major changes in the off-season. 7 seasons in Toronto. What have they accomplished? Nada! They clinched a playoff birth in 2020 a short season due to Covid-19 and they were swept by Tampa.

[s e n s i]

if you don't want to give shapiro/atkins credit for the short-season 2020 playoff birth, then you also have to consider that they likely would have made the playoffs last year (probably easily) having not played in toronto until august, which is quite the disadvantage. can't have it both ways there.

i'd probably wait until they actually miss the playoffs before thinking about calling for their heads, though.

[Mehar]

if you don't want to give shapiro/atkins credit for the short-season 2020 playoff birth, then you also have to consider that they likely would have made the playoffs last year (probably easily) having not played in toronto until august. can't have it both ways there.

i'd probably wait until they actually miss the playoffs before thinking about calling for their heads, though.

The reason why the Jays did not make the playoffs last year was the Garbage Bullpen Shapiro and Atkins assembled that cost the team many wins in the first few months of 2021. They brought in beauties like Brad Hand, Patrick Murphy, Rafael Dolis, Tyler Chatwood, and Kirby Yates- only to DFA these scrubs in the year. If this team had a competent bullpen for the first few months of 2021, there would be no missed Playoffs. Shapiro and Atkins failed to effectively address the Bullpen again last Off-season. They needed more than just to sign Garcia.

Instead of spending money on the Bullpen, they flushed 36 million down the toilet (16 million for this year) to a guy in Kikuchi, who had an ERA of 5.98 in his last 13 Starts. Seattle did not even want him back for one year, but the Jays were the only MLB team to guarantee him 3 years. Let's see how the rest of the year plays out. If the Jays miss the playoffs, Rogers needs to bite the bullet with the remaining years of their deals, and fire both Shapiro and Atkins. Shapiro and Atkins will be much cheaper to pay out, than the millions Rogers ownership has still left to pay to our 150 million part-time CF Springer who is always banged up with injuries; along with Ryu, Kikuchi, and now Berrios who was given a 131 million extension prematurely before the year. There was no harm in waiting to see how the year played out, before committing to a 7 year deal with Berrios until he is 35/36. Not mentioning the 20 million that was paid out to Tanner Roark who was another Bust signing.

[Hottie McShotty]

That Berrios contract will come back to haunt this franchise. Springer is made out of glass. He can never stay healthy. Vernon Wells all over again. Both bad signings by Atkins.

[s e n s i]

if you don't want to give shapiro/atkins credit for the short-season 2020 playoff birth, then you also have to consider that they likely would have made the playoffs last year (probably easily) having not played in toronto until august. can't have it both ways there.

i'd probably wait until they actually miss the playoffs before thinking about calling for their heads, though.

The reason why the Jays did not make the playoffs last year was the Garbage Bullpen Shapiro and Atkins assembled that cost the team many wins in the first few months of 2021. They brought in beauties like Brad Hand, Patrick Murphy, Rafael Dolis, Tyler Chatwood, and Kirby Yates- only to DFA these scrubs in the year. If this team had a competent bullpen for the first few months of 2021, there would be no missed Playoffs. Shapiro and Atkins failed to effectively address the Bullpen again last Off-season. They needed more than just to sign Garcia.

Instead of spending money on the Bullpen, they flushed 36 million down the toilet (16 million for this year) to a guy in Kikuchi, who had an ERA of 5.98 in his last 13 Starts. Seattle did not even want him back for one year, but the Jays were the only MLB team to guarantee him 3 years. Let's see how the rest of the year plays out. If the Jays miss the playoffs, Rogers needs to bite the bullet with the remaining years of their deals, and fire both Shapiro and Atkins. Shapiro and Atkins will be much cheaper to pay out, than the millions Rogers ownership has still left to pay to our 150 million part-time CF Springer who is always banged up with injuries; along with Ryu, Kikuchi, and now Berrios who was given a 131 million extension prematurely before the year. There was no harm in waiting to see how the year played out, before committing to a 7 year deal with Berrios until he is 35/36. Not mentioning the 20 million that was paid out to Tanner Roark who was another Bust signing.

and yet despite all this, they make the playoffs easily if they play all of their 81 home games in toronto. not sure how debatable that is; they went 22-22 in dunedin and buffalo. if you don't think they would have at least gone 23-21 had those games been played at rogers centre instead, then i'm not sure what to tell you. they make a play-in game with that record. they make a wild card game with anything better than that. the rays won the division with 100 wins so that's actually too high to expect of any team/front office.

i'm not making excuses. everything you've mentioned is a fair critique of the front office. but unfortunately the front office can't control federal and provincial pandemic restrictions and requirements, so it's kind of hard to fault them for putting together a 91 win team that is probably a 92, 93, 94 win team playing in toronto for their full slate of home games.

again, i'd probably wait until they miss the playoffs entirely (very possible) or make the playoffs and get to the DS (also very possible) before putting the front office on trial. the jury is still out on them until we see what happens over the next two months.

[Randle McMurphy]

The 2021 Jays were one of the best teams in the league and we were not likely to ever repeat that level of performance this year. I put the blame for that team not making the playoffs mostly on Trudeau and then somewhat on Montoyo.

[Schad]

That Berrios contract will come back to haunt this franchise. Springer is made out of glass. He can never stay healthy. Vernon Wells all over again. Both bad signings by Atkins.

it turns out that mega-contracts really aren't a panacea. Who knew?

[Madvillainy2004]

That Berrios contract will come back to haunt this franchise. Springer is made out of glass. He can never stay healthy. Vernon Wells all over again. Both bad signings by Atkins.

it turns out that mega-contracts really aren't a panacea. Who knew?

I honestly don't know the solution other than Baseball is tough to build a consistent winner. The off years for guys doesn't happen to much in other sports.

[Schad]

I honestly don't know the solution other than Baseball is tough to build a consistent winner. The off years for guys doesn't happen to much in other sports.

It's noteworthy that one of the teams that has best succeeded has no money whatsoever, and trades off 2-3 of their best players every offseason. Baseball's financial system and the productive age curve of players just don't really mesh well.