Breaking: Varsho in, Moreno, Gurriel out

[DelAbbot]

Shakins traded away the best catcher out of the 3 we had for a OF that doesn't play everyday against LHP.

Double whammy

triple whammy

Read on Twitter

[Randle McMurphy]

If they wanted the mediocre Lourdes back, they could have easily signed him in the offseason. They didn’t.

[Madvillainy2004]

If they wanted the mediocre Lourdes back, they could have easily signed him in the offseason. They didn’t.

Did everyone miss Lourdes having like 5 total homeruns in 2022? Lol he also chucked a ball into the dugout from left field tn too.

[Randle McMurphy]

If they wanted the mediocre Lourdes back, they could have easily signed him in the offseason. They didn’t.

Did everyone miss Lourdes having like 5 total homeruns in 2022? Lol

He only had a 106 wRC+ last year too. No clue where the idea came that he’s any good but it’s been an interesting part of this one.

[Fairview4Life]

Shakins traded away the best catcher out of the 3 we had for a OF that doesn't play everyday against LHP.

Double whammy

triple whammy

Read on Twitter

Varsho played against the Rays.

Gurriel played against the Rockies.

Baseball is a long season.

[Randle McMurphy]

Shakins traded away the best catcher out of the 3 we had for a OF that doesn't play everyday against LHP.

Double whammy

triple whammy

Read on Twitter

Varsho played against the Rays.

Gurriel played against the Rockies.

Baseball is a long season.

Hey, remember when Lourdes got off to his torrid 1st half start in 2023, everyone cried that the Jays blew it by letting him go and that he was better than Brandon Belt (he wasn't), and then he inevitably fizzled out into the mediocre one-dimensional player he actually is and always has been? Because I do.

[bluerap23]

triple whammy

Read on Twitter

Varsho played against the Rays.

Gurriel played against the Rockies.

Baseball is a long season.

Hey, remember when Lourdes got off to his torrid 1st half start in 2023, everyone cried that the Jays blew it by letting him go and that he was better than Brandon Belt (he wasn't), and then he inevitably fizzled out into the mediocre one-dimensional player he actually is and always has been? Because I do.

I remember people making the point that Varsho in left is about the same as Lourdes in left and we threw in an all-mlb catcher

[Ranger One]

So we brought in Daulton "best defensive center fielder in baseball history" Varsho and have chosen to play him in... checks notes... Left field for the past two years? This is not a serious team. We continue to double and triple down on defense and run prevention by resigning KK and giving 7.5mil to IKF, while the myriad of holes in our offense continue to remain unaddressed. It's wild to me how Atkins still has a job after that limp offseason where his punchline for the season was based on Cliches, empty words, hopes, dreams and fairy dust.

[DelAbbot]

If they wanted the mediocre Lourdes back, they could have easily signed him in the offseason. They didn’t.

They are not making the correct decisions.

[Harry Palmer]

Top of your head, who are the leftfielders who are/were considered to be great players whose contribution was almost entirely defensive? Are there any? Closest I can come up with is Gordon, but there were several good to very good offensive years in there.

Still, closest I could think of, but I haven’t paid close attention to non-Jay mlb in a very long time so I might be missing a bunch.

[Fairview4Life]

If they wanted the mediocre Lourdes back, they could have easily signed him in the offseason. They didn’t.

They are not making the correct decisions.

We watched Lourdes in left already. He was decidedly mediocre at the plate and awful in the field. He runs like a duck. It was like watching Jose Canseco without the home runs.

[DelAbbot]

If they wanted the mediocre Lourdes back, they could have easily signed him in the offseason. They didn’t.

They are not making the correct decisions.

We watched Lourdes in left already. He was decidedly mediocre at the plate and awful in the field. He runs like a duck. It was like watching Jose Canseco without the home runs.

He has that above average contact ability with pop, which is exactly what we currently need. His mediocre defense in LF is not that negatively impactful (due to strong arm). His baserunning brainfarts can be ignored over 162 game sample.

[DelAbbot]

Top of your head, who are the leftfielders who are/were considered to be great players whose contribution was almost entirely defensive? Are there any? Closest I can come up with is Gordon, but there were several good to very good offensive years in there.

Still, closest I could think of, but I haven’t paid close attention to non-Jay mlb in a very long time so I might be missing a bunch.

Exactly, you need offensive production out of LF given we have a match-stick hitter in CF.

Gordon as a prospect was considered the next Barry Bonds in college due to his elite eye and developing power. He developed into an all around offense + great defense LF. We have a CF with massive holes in his swing playing in LF.

Also funny you mentioned the Royals - they are the only team who could benefit from a defensive-focused LF due to Kauffman stadium outfield being extra spacious. Cain + Dyson + Gordon works in that park

[Fairview4Life]

They are not making the correct decisions.

We watched Lourdes in left already. He was decidedly mediocre at the plate and awful in the field. He runs like a duck. It was like watching Jose Canseco without the home runs.

He has that above average contact ability with pop, which is exactly what we currently need. His mediocre defense in LF is not that negatively impactful (due to strong arm). His baserunning brainfarts can be ignored over 162 game sample.

He does not have pop. He had an ISO of 108 and 5 home runs in his last year here. Varsho showed more "pop" last season. His defense in left was awful and not made up for by his supposedly strong arm. We all watched this happen! It was less than 2 years ago.

[Madvillainy2004]

We watched Lourdes in left already. He was decidedly mediocre at the plate and awful in the field. He runs like a duck. It was like watching Jose Canseco without the home runs.

He has that above average contact ability with pop, which is exactly what we currently need. His mediocre defense in LF is not that negatively impactful (due to strong arm). His baserunning brainfarts can be ignored over 162 game sample.

He does not have pop. He had an ISO of 108 and 5 home runs in his last year here. Varsho showed more "pop" last season. His defense in left was awful and not made up for by his supposedly strong arm. We all watched this happen! It was less than 2 years ago.

Are people reminiscing about that 2022 Jays team that blew a 8-1 lead in the WC game on their home field?

Varsho should br CF and its dumb that he's not but people are romanticizing that Teo/Gurriell outfield lol

[Mehar]

They are not making the correct decisions.

We watched Lourdes in left already. He was decidedly mediocre at the plate and awful in the field. He runs like a duck. It was like watching Jose Canseco without the home runs.

He has that above average contact ability with pop, which is exactly what we currently need. His mediocre defense in LF is not that negatively impactful (due to strong arm). His baserunning brainfarts can be ignored over 162 game sample.

Gurriel hit .291 in 2022. That is an above average contact hitter. If you call that mediocre at the plate, I wonder what you call Varsho hitting .220 with an atrocious OPS of .674 last year?

Gurriel last year in an interview said his lack of home run power in 2022, was partly due to an ongoing wrist issue he was battling all season. He got wrist surgery after the 2022 season, and his power bounced back last year. He is not the greatest defensive outfielder, but he is not terrible like Tapia.

I find the Varsho trade lovers just paint Gurriel as a terrible defender, to distract from the horrific offensive output that Varsho provided last year. The Arizona manager said he was impressed with Gurriel's arm and outfield defense all year, and called him underrated defensively. Unfortunately Gurriel was hurt in the Wild Card disaster against Seattle, since he would have most likely made the plays that Tapia could not in that terrible 8-1 loss against Seattle.

[Parataxis]

I, for one, love that we're going to keep on relitigating this trade every week for at least the next decade.

There's always so much new information to discuss!

[Fairview4Life]

We watched Lourdes in left already. He was decidedly mediocre at the plate and awful in the field. He runs like a duck. It was like watching Jose Canseco without the home runs.

He has that above average contact ability with pop, which is exactly what we currently need. His mediocre defense in LF is not that negatively impactful (due to strong arm). His baserunning brainfarts can be ignored over 162 game sample.

Gurriel hit .291 in 2022. That is an above average contact hitter. If you call that mediocre at the plate, I wonder what you call Varsho hitting .220 with an atrocious OPS of .674 last year?

Gurriel last year in an interview said his lack of home run power in 2022, was partly due to an ongoing wrist issue he was battling all season. He got wrist surgery after the 2022 season, and his power bounced back last year. He is not the greatest defensive outfielder, but he is not terrible like Tapia.

I find the Varsho trade lovers just paint Gurriel as a terrible defender, to distract from the horrific offensive output that Varsho provided last year. The Arizona manager said he was impressed with Gurriel's arm and outfield defense all year, and called him underrated defensively. Unfortunately Gurriel was hurt in the Wild Card disaster against Seattle, since he would have most likely made the plays that Tapia could not in that terrible 8-1 loss against Seattle.

Varsho hit terribly for us last year. Gurriel is terrible defensively, no matter what his manager said lol. Both things can be true.

[Harry Palmer]

I believe in the chain philosophy of lineups. Greg Maddux says pitching against a lineup with holes and stars is much easier than pitching to a lineup without much star power but no holes. He says the holes allow you to conserve and control the game in normal situations, and allow you to be strategic in clutch situations. For example he says Barry Bonds was the easiest hitter to pitch to because if the game was close you just don’t give him anything to hit, and sometimes get lucky calls or he chases, but either way he’s fine with walking him, and that your control of the rest of the lineup also makes high pressure situations much more infrequent.

Having a hole in left, probably the least important defensive position usually manned hitters (or kids) just compounds the other holes which are a bit more normal. It’s sort of weird that we have one of our weakest defensive players at the most important defensive position and one of our weakest hitters at the position that might feature the most hit-only players outside of DH. Used to be 1B was pretty close or more, but data has slightly changed how first base play is perceived, and the kind of bad defenders who were usually slotted into first, ie your big and especially slow sluggers, now normally just DH, especially since those slots suddenly doubled.

For clarification, not saying left field produces the best hitters because often the best hitters are also good to great athletes who can handle more important positions. But it’s the one where teams can hide their DH-like players the most if they can’t just DH them. These oddities might even affect comparative data, but I’ve not looked into the formula enough to know if that supposition bears out.

[Mehar]

He has that above average contact ability with pop, which is exactly what we currently need. His mediocre defense in LF is not that negatively impactful (due to strong arm). His baserunning brainfarts can be ignored over 162 game sample.

Gurriel hit .291 in 2022. That is an above average contact hitter. If you call that mediocre at the plate, I wonder what you call Varsho hitting .220 with an atrocious OPS of .674 last year?

Gurriel last year in an interview said his lack of home run power in 2022, was partly due to an ongoing wrist issue he was battling all season. He got wrist surgery after the 2022 season, and his power bounced back last year. He is not the greatest defensive outfielder, but he is not terrible like Tapia.

I find the Varsho trade lovers just paint Gurriel as a terrible defender, to distract from the horrific offensive output that Varsho provided last year. The Arizona manager said he was impressed with Gurriel's arm and outfield defense all year, and called him underrated defensively. Unfortunately Gurriel was hurt in the Wild Card disaster against Seattle, since he would have most likely made the plays that Tapia could not in that terrible 8-1 loss against Seattle.

Varsho hit terribly for us last year. Gurriel is terrible defensively, no matter what his manager said lol. Both things can be true.

It is not what simply the Arizona manager has said, when he called Gurriel a solid and underrated defender. If you do a deep dive into Gurriel's defensive numbers in 2023, he is not terrible. He has a great arm and is an average to good defender. He is obviously not exceptional like Varsho. However, listening to the Varsho trade lovers, they make it seem like Gurriel is on the level of Tapia when it comes to defense, which is not the case.

I would take an average to good defender who is an above average hitter, over an excellent defender (but who ranked as one of the worst hitting starting regulars in all of MLB like Varsho). That being said, it was on the front office to find a complementary Left Fielder (who can hit for average and have some Pop) to play alongside Varsho in 2024 whose true value is in CF. That did not happen unfortunately.