Breaking: Varsho in, Moreno, Gurriel out

[s e n s i]

Omg this took me 42 seconds.

Here’s sportnet using statistical prospect analysis to form an argument that moreno is a generational prospect on par with joe major and buster posey.
.

Good luck learning how to google and learning how to connect thoughts and ideas from one sentence to the next.


https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/history-elite-young-catchers-tells-us-jays-prospect-gabriel-moreno/

42 seconds.

Or you can just try to think and connect the dots.

Catchers are rarely the top prospect in baseball.

Catchers ranked the top prospect with elite hit tools are exceptionally rare.

A child could think it through by literally just saying those words out loud

which argument are you supporting by sharing these articles. from your original post. which of your statements are you trying to corroborate here?

also, when was moreno ever the top ranked prospect in baseball?

I think agkagk was referring to this from July 2022-
Baseball America names Bisons' Moreno game's top prospect

https://www.milb.com/news/moreno-named-baseball-s-top-prospect

oh fair enough, i'll cede that point, even if the eligibility criteria to be on this list differs from source to source. thanks for sharing.

maybe you can help answer these, as well, mehar.

where and when was he the best catching prospect in the majors in the last 15 years?

how exactly is a league-average bat with elite defense in the outfield a "league-average talent"?

the jays acquired varsho coming off a 4.8 fWAR season, why would the jays FO project him to be league average?

[agkagk]

Omg this took me 42 seconds.

Here’s sportnet using statistical prospect analysis to form an argument that moreno is a generational prospect on par with joe major and buster posey.
.

Good luck learning how to google and learning how to connect thoughts and ideas from one sentence to the next.


https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/history-elite-young-catchers-tells-us-jays-prospect-gabriel-moreno/

42 seconds.

Or you can just try to think and connect the dots.

Catchers are rarely the top prospect in baseball.

Catchers ranked the top prospect with elite hit tools are exceptionally rare.

A child could think it through by literally just saying those words out loud

which argument are you supporting by sharing these articles. from your original post. which of your statements are you trying to corroborate here?

also, when was moreno ever the top ranked prospect in baseball?

I think agkagk was referring to this from July 2022-
Baseball America names Bisons' Moreno game's top prospect

https://www.milb.com/news/moreno-named-baseball-s-top-prospect

Ya gabriel moreno was the number one ranked prospect by baseball america

Statistically speaking alone it makes him one of the 3 - 5 greatest back catching prospects of the past 30 - 40+ years.

Say it out loud:

Back catcher + elite hit tool + baseball americas ranking =‘s unicorn prospect.

a person just has to connect the thoughts…..


The upside was worth more then we traded him for, by a lot.

Even if moreno is replacement level, his prospect value was worth a perrenial all star.

[agkagk]

which argument are you supporting by sharing these articles. from your original post. which of your statements are you trying to corroborate here?

also, when was moreno ever the top ranked prospect in baseball?

I think agkagk was referring to this from July 2022-
Baseball America names Bisons' Moreno game's top prospect

https://www.milb.com/news/moreno-named-baseball-s-top-prospect

oh fair enough, i'll cede that point, even if the eligibility criteria to be on this list differs from source to source. thanks for sharing.

maybe you can help answer these, as well, mehar.

where and when was he the best catching prospect in the majors in the last 15 years?

how exactly is a league-average bat with elite defense in the outfield a "league-average talent"?

the jays acquired varsho coming off a 4.8 fWAR season, why would the jays FO project him to be league average?

Because baseball isnt played on a spreadsheet

and wins against replacement isnt a substitute for common sense.


Kevin kiermier and the whit merrifields of the world are avg mlb regulars at best regardless of their war.

Varsho is only an elite defender in LEFT FIELD

And he cant hit.

His war is useless in your stupid context.

Youre demonstrating an aversion to common sense my argumentative angry friend


Candy maldonado with foot speed for a prospect as valuable as matt weiters, buster posey, charles johnson, joe Mauer, pudge and some guy named davis were.

If you try to hide behind varshos war which is inflated by his LEFT FIELD defence, then your just ignorant.

[s e n s i]

I think agkagk was referring to this from July 2022-
Baseball America names Bisons' Moreno game's top prospect

https://www.milb.com/news/moreno-named-baseball-s-top-prospect

oh fair enough, i'll cede that point, even if the eligibility criteria to be on this list differs from source to source. thanks for sharing.

maybe you can help answer these, as well, mehar.

where and when was he the best catching prospect in the majors in the last 15 years?

how exactly is a league-average bat with elite defense in the outfield a "league-average talent"?

the jays acquired varsho coming off a 4.8 fWAR season, why would the jays FO project him to be league average?

Because baseball isnt played on a spreadsheet

and wins against replacement isnt a substitute for common sense.


Kevin kiermier and the whit merrifields of the world are avg mlb regulars at best regardless of their war.

Youre demonstrating an aversion to common sense my argumentative angry friend

i'm asking you to show me the common sense behind your original post.

how is moreno the best catching prospect in the last 15 years?

why and how would the jays project varsho to be a league-average player when acquiring him?

[agkagk]

oh fair enough, i'll cede that point, even if the eligibility criteria to be on this list differs from source to source. thanks for sharing.

maybe you can help answer these, as well, mehar.

where and when was he the best catching prospect in the majors in the last 15 years?

how exactly is a league-average bat with elite defense in the outfield a "league-average talent"?

the jays acquired varsho coming off a 4.8 fWAR season, why would the jays FO project him to be league average?

Because baseball isnt played on a spreadsheet

and wins against replacement isnt a substitute for common sense.


Kevin kiermier and the whit merrifields of the world are avg mlb regulars at best regardless of their war.

Youre demonstrating an aversion to common sense my argumentative angry friend

i'm asking you to show me the common sense behind your original post.

how is moreno the best catching prospect in the last 15 years?

why and how would the jays project varsho to be a league-average player when acquiring him?

Youre arguing with yourself on the internet dude.

Moreno is arguably the top prospect at his position in 15+ years.

This is the only talking point i made and that you chose to argue and attack.

You didnt even know his baseball america ranking. And still dont show any understanding of its historical significance.


I took the time to explain the gaps.

Youre just being ignorant at this point

[s e n s i]

Because baseball isnt played on a spreadsheet

and wins against replacement isnt a substitute for common sense.


Kevin kiermier and the whit merrifields of the world are avg mlb regulars at best regardless of their war.

Youre demonstrating an aversion to common sense my argumentative angry friend

i'm asking you to show me the common sense behind your original post.

how is moreno the best catching prospect in the last 15 years?

why and how would the jays project varsho to be a league-average player when acquiring him?

Youre arguing with yourself on the internet dude.

Moreno is arguably the top prospect at hos position in 15 years.

This is the only talking point i made and that you chose to argue and attack.

You didnt even know his baseball america ranking. And still dont show any understanding of its significance.


I took the time to explain the gaps.

Youre just being ignorant at this point

oh first he was "the best catching prospect in the entire majors the past 15 years" and now it's "arguable" that he was. i also took issue with the latter part of that comment whereby we traded him for a player "they (the jays, i presume?) project to be league average", which hasn't been sufficiently supported with any kind of actual, non-speculative evidence to this point.

[agkagk]

i'm asking you to show me the common sense behind your original post.

how is moreno the best catching prospect in the last 15 years?

why and how would the jays project varsho to be a league-average player when acquiring him?

Youre arguing with yourself on the internet dude.

Moreno is arguably the top prospect at hos position in 15 years.

This is the only talking point i made and that you chose to argue and attack.

You didnt even know his baseball america ranking. And still dont show any understanding of its significance.


I took the time to explain the gaps.

Youre just being ignorant at this point

oh first he was "the best catching prospect in the entire majors the past 15 years" and now it's "arguable" that he was. i also took issue with the latter part of that comment whereby we traded him for a player "they (the jays, i presume?) project to be league average", which hasn't been sufficiently supported with any kind of actual, non-speculative evidence.

Somebody hug this child plz.

[agkagk]

by my definition, matt chapman is a "solid" defender, if not slightly better.

daulton varsho is an absolutely elite defender, is probably the best defensive outfielder in the league, and will likely end up being the best defensive outfielder in franchise history after moving to CF especially. to say he is merely "solid" is really understating just how good he is out there.

Let's not get carried away with the praise. Let's see how he does in CF next year over a full regular season, before proclaiming him the best in the league. Kiermaier was great defensively also in 2023. I wish Varsho was 3-4 inches taller like a 6 foot 1-2 Kiermaier, and his wingspan was much longer. Varsho's short height of 5 foot 9.5 inches and short arms, did prevent him from catching balls that went out of the park or landed for base hits, which a taller and player would have gotten to. Regardless, nobody is questioning his Outfield Defense. If Varsho is a below average hitter in 2024 like he was in 2023, whatever defense he provides is mitigated if he continues to be a Black Hole offensively. He is still counted on to come to the plate 4/5 times a game, and hopefully he is not one of the worst hitting starting outfielders like he was in 2023.

Im just hoping for him to provide more than a stumpy man’s impression of colby rasmus

[agkagk]

lovullo's confidence in moreno is so low right now that he asked him to sac bunt with 2 on and no one out, yet he still has him hitting 3rd. either that or moreno is dumber than we thought, but lovullo has proven to be as sharp as a bowling ball this series so maybe not. utterly confounding stuff in the world series.

Having a player in your 3 hole who you ask to bunt twice is so funny man lmao just hat him 8th if you're gonna do that.

Hey if its good enough for japanese national team….

Lol

[agkagk]

Varsho hit .302/.372/.527 for his career in the minor leagues, and then had a 102 wRC+ in the big leagues from 2020-22. The only time he's ever resembled a below average hitter was in 2023 when I'm guessing someone in the org got in his ear about using all fields and hitting more singles, or whatever stupid philosophy the entire team decided to adopt that lead to 75% of the offense underachieving. If he put up a 102 wRC+ in 2024 while playing CF all season, then he's likely a 4-5 WAR player assuming his defense doesn't fall off. If you assume he's going to be an 80 wRC+ player moving forward, then he'd still be a 2-3 WAR CF just based on his D and base running, though obviously that would not be an ideal scenario. Regardless, it's way too early to write him off as a below average hitter.

Plus 1

He looks like a decent hitter for 3/4ths of his swing and hes a plus athlete.

I still have some faith in my “josh donaldson of left fielders” analogy.

But still, not the guy you trade baseball americas’s #1 prospect (albeit temporary) for.

[s e n s i]

If you try to hide behind varshos war which is inflated by his LEFT FIELD defence, then your just ignorant.

just noticed this edit on your post, though you probably should have just left it as it was.

varsho's WAR (on either fangraphs or bbref) is deflated by being in left field. imagine what it will be with a full season in CF. and I'm ignorant, apparently.

[s e n s i]

Varsho hit .302/.372/.527 for his career in the minor leagues, and then had a 102 wRC+ in the big leagues from 2020-22. The only time he's ever resembled a below average hitter was in 2023 when I'm guessing someone in the org got in his ear about using all fields and hitting more singles, or whatever stupid philosophy the entire team decided to adopt that lead to 75% of the offense underachieving. If he put up a 102 wRC+ in 2024 while playing CF all season, then he's likely a 4-5 WAR player assuming his defense doesn't fall off. If you assume he's going to be an 80 wRC+ player moving forward, then he'd still be a 2-3 WAR CF just based on his D and base running, though obviously that would not be an ideal scenario. Regardless, it's way too early to write him off as a below average hitter.

Plus 1

He looks like a decent hitter for 3/4ths of his swing and hes a plus athlete.

I still have some faith in my “josh donaldson of left fielders” analogy.

But still, not the guy you trade baseball americas’s #1 prospect (albeit temporary) for.

i'd imagine there are dozens of #1 overall prospects that have and will never have as productive a career as josh donaldson.

[Randle McMurphy]

Read on Twitter

Kirk back to being a great hitter and Varsho back to being above average offensively in 2024 according to yet another projection system. If they hit like that, both will be easily among the most valuable at their positions next season.

What a trade.

[Mehar]

Read on Twitter

Kirk back to being a great hitter and Varsho back to being above average offensively in 2024 according to yet another projection system. If they hit like that, both will be easily among the most valuable at their positions next season.

What a trade.

These projections mean absolutely nothing. Let's see how next year plays out, because after Year 1- the trade was very underwhelming based on how awful Varsho was offensively. I recall you and others who loved the Varsho trade, making similar projections how Varsho would do in 2023. None of them materialized, as Varsho was a below average hitter in virtually every offensive metric that matters (BA, OPS, SLG, On Base, Strikeouts, etc). One guy called him a guy who could be a "Mini Mike Trout" which was laughable.

[Mehar]

by my definition, matt chapman is a "solid" defender, if not slightly better.

daulton varsho is an absolutely elite defender, is probably the best defensive outfielder in the league, and will likely end up being the best defensive outfielder in franchise history after moving to CF especially. to say he is merely "solid" is really understating just how good he is out there.

The so called "solid defender" Chapman wins the Gold Glove. Gabriel Moreno wins a Gold Glove, as a 23 year old Rookie after leading MLB in Defensive WAR in 2023. Varsho, who is called an elite defender, and the best defensive outfielder in the league, does not win a Gold Glove.

[s e n s i]

by my definition, matt chapman is a "solid" defender, if not slightly better.

daulton varsho is an absolutely elite defender, is probably the best defensive outfielder in the league, and will likely end up being the best defensive outfielder in franchise history after moving to CF especially. to say he is merely "solid" is really understating just how good he is out there.

The so called "solid defender" Chapman wins the Gold Glove. Gabriel Moreno wins a Gold Glove, as a 23 year old Rookie after leading MLB in Defensive WAR in 2023. Varsho, who is called an elite defender, and the best defensive outfielder in the league, does not win a Gold Glove.

ouuuuuuuuuuu wow amazing. good for them. that's awesome dude.

[s e n s i]

your annual reminder that derek jeter has 5 gold gloves, vladimir guerrero has a gold glove, and so does rafael palmeiro for a season where he DH'd in 80% of the games. absolutely **** pointless, trivial award that i legitimately thought no one took seriously until now.

[Randle McMurphy]

your annual reminder that derek jeter has 5 gold gloves, vladimir guerrero has a gold glove, and so does rafael palmeiro for a season where he DH'd in 80% of the games. absolutely **** pointless, trivial award that i legitimately thought no one took seriously until now.

Read on Twitter

[agkagk]

You guys are never going to guess who won the nl gold glove for back catcher…….


In the interest of rubbing salt in our wounds.

6th youngest winner ever……

Varsho and kirk both came in second…. Salty!

[Randle McMurphy]

Read on Twitter