Your offer for Ohtani

[SharoneWright]

2 months of regular season and playoffs 2023. A rental?? Or maybe he stay???

I normally HATE emptying the farm for a rental at the deadline. This time, I'm all in. Maybe it's the legend of Shohei, or maybe I'm less excited about our top prospects....

MY OFFER:

1. Ricky Tiedemann OR Brandon Barriera

2. Orelvis Martinez OR Addison Barger

3. Daulton Varsho (the trade piece formerly known as Gabriel Moreno....)

4. Alek Manoah


2023 Playoff Rotation (options):

Ohtani
Gausman
Bassitt
Berrios
Kikuchi
Ryu

2023 Playoff Batting Order:

Springer
Bichette
Ohtani
Guerrero
Chapman
Belt/Kirk/(deadline DH)
Merrifield
Jansen
Kiermaier

LAA are naturally expecting a franchise-altering haul. Not all teams are bidders though...
Would you include Alek? I think that offer gets it done. Do you? An overpay?
(We win the World Series... he's coming back, no?)

[Parataxis]

For what it's going to cost for Ohtani, unless he agrees to an extension as part of the trade, I think I need to pass this time around.

We're in a weird situation right now where he isn't the missing piece that puts us a WS favourites, but also our team will still be largely together next year, so we can aim to get him then.

But wow, it's going to hurt if we face him in the playoffs.

[SharoneWright]

For what it's going to cost for Ohtani, unless he agrees to an extension as part of the trade, I think I need to pass this time around.

We're in a weird situation right now where he isn't the missing piece that puts us a WS favourites, but also our team will still be largely together next year, so we can aim to get him then.

But wow, it's going to hurt if we face him in the playoffs.

Hmmmm... he upgrades both Varsho in the outfield and Manoah in the rotation. We retain Vlad, Bo, George -- our position player core. It's almost a pure add at the MLB level, considering what Varsho is doing and the fact that Alek might not start in the playoffs. WS becomes a reality imo.

The chance he chooses us in the offseason is low.... BUT if you want to dream big, you throw in your best young cheap controllable assets now and aim for a World Series. He tastes the winning, he sees Toronto is big enough for his life/business aspirations,,,,, and we are the favourites to re-sign him. We have a set rotation for 3+ years with Gausman, Berrios, Bassitt, Ohtani,, even Kiku under multi year deals.

I think this gamble is the only way that future happens.

[Schad]

I don't have one. I don't think we can realistically approach the sort of offer that, say, the Dodgers could put together. They have a pile of really good prospects that are in the majors/on the cusp, and we...don't have that at all.

[Parataxis]

For what it's going to cost for Ohtani, unless he agrees to an extension as part of the trade, I think I need to pass this time around.

We're in a weird situation right now where he isn't the missing piece that puts us a WS favourites, but also our team will still be largely together next year, so we can aim to get him then.

But wow, it's going to hurt if we face him in the playoffs.

Hmmmm... he upgrades both Varsho in the outfield and Manoah in the rotation. We retain Vlad, Bo, George -- our position player core. It's almost a pure add at the MLB level, considering what Varsho is doing and the fact that Alek might not start in the playoffs. WS becomes a reality imo.

The chances he chooses us in the offseason is low.... BUT if you want to dream big, you throw in your young cheap controllable assets now and aim for a World Series. He tastes the winning, he sees Toronto is big enough for his life/business aspirations,,,,, and we are the favourites to re-sign him. We have a set rotation for 3+ years with Gausman, Berrios, Bassitt, Ohtani,, even Kiku under multi year deals.

I think this gamble is the only way that future happens.

He's an upgrade of Varsho at the plate - not in the outfield.

But yeah, if all it costs us is Varsho and Manoah? Okay, let's talk.

But it won't. And I don't think that we're in the place right now to mortgage our future to go up from 5% to 10%. I'd rather keep our powder dry, and try to sign him in the offseason. If he's willing to sign with us after renting him, then he'd be willing to sign with us without renting him (and visa-versa). I don't think he needs to spend two months in Toronto to know that we're a big city.

[Mehar]

I am not going to further weaken the farm system for a 2 month rental, even for Ohtani. The farm system is mediocre already, and that is the last thing this organization needs to do right now, is trade some of their remaining top prospects for a two month rental. I will just wait in the off-season and if Rogers was serious in getting Ohtani- it would take 10 years and over 500 million. If Rogers is willing to make that commitment, then I would just make that offer at that time, and keep my prospects I have now.

[SharoneWright]

Ok well I appreciate the feedback....

1 person says we don't have the necessary quality trade assets.

1 person unwilling to part with those trade assets.

[Mehar]

Ok well I appreciate the feedback....

1 person says we don't have the necessary quality trade assets.

1 person unwilling to part with those trade assets.

In addition, the Angels will laugh at your offer that includes Manoah and Varsho. Varsho is one of the worst hitting Starting Outfielders in all of MLB, and Manoah has been one of the worst Starting Pitchers.

[SharoneWright]

Ok well I appreciate the feedback....

1 person says we don't have the necessary quality trade assets.

1 person unwilling to part with those trade assets.

In addition, the Angels will laugh at your offer that includes Manoah and Varsho. Varsho is one of the worst hitting Starting Outfielders in all of MLB, and Manoah has been one of the worst Starting Pitchers.

Kiley McDaniel just said 5 minutes ago that an offer of Teidemann and Martinez gets your foot in the door...he also says if you end up adding Robberse and Juenger, that would be pretty steep..

So I guess you value Robberse + Juenger more than Manoah + Varsho

Anyway, not claiming my trade is perect or gets it done (I actually thought it was probably too much),, but it's 4 guys all young and all cheap with 2 already at the MLB and 2 knocking at the door). I guess no one can account for what the Dodgers or Orioles might or might not do..

(And re-read my OP to notice my regret that I have to offer Varsho instead of Moreno...)

[-MetA4-]

I personally think it's pretty silly to trade two young, cheap, controllable MLB players who each have 4+ WAR seasons under their belt (one who was literally a Cy Young finalist last season) for ~2-3 months of a player that isn't likely to sign an extension here regardless. On top of Tiedemann/Martinez?

I think that fans are largely far too reactionary. Last year the argument was that we needed to trade Berrios for a bag of baseballs and Kikuchi was the dumbest FA signing of all time. A year later and I guess we're going to compete for the WS with them in the rotation after we add Ohtani?

I don't make that trade because I think it has extreme implosion potential; more so than your normal "trade a few top prospects" package. Would not surprise me at all if Manoah/Varsho are putting up 8 WAR for the Angels next season whereas you get ~2 WAR out of Ohtani, the team doesn't do much in the playoffs, and he signs elsewhere. This team also isn't playing at any sort of level for me to believe that we're Ohtani away from doing anything.

[Asianiac_24]

We shouldn’t. Not in this AL East, at the current standing we are in.

[Raps in 4]

2 months of regular season and playoffs 2023. A rental?? Or maybe he stay???

I normally HATE emptying the farm for a rental at the deadline. This time, I'm all in. Maybe it's the legend of Shohei, or maybe I'm less excited about our top prospects....

MY OFFER:

1. Ricky Tiedemann OR Brandon Barriera

2. Orelvis Martinez OR Addison Barger

3. Daulton Varsho (the trade piece formerly known as Gabriel Moreno....)

4. Alek Manoah


2023 Playoff Rotation (options):

Ohtani
Gausman
Bassitt
Berrios
Kikuchi
Ryu

2023 Playoff Batting Order:

Springer
Bichette
Ohtani
Guerrero
Chapman
Belt/Kirk/(deadline DH)
Merrifield
Jansen
Kiermaier

LAA are naturally expecting a franchise-altering haul. Not all teams are bidders though...
Would you include Alek? I think that offer gets it done. Do you? An overpay?
(We win the World Series... he's coming back, no?)

In theory, I'd do that if he commits to signing here.

But I don't think we should be looking to sign him. I feel he's going to burn out in a few years. I also don't think we should be trading any more prospects, for the reason that I don't think Ohtani will have a very long career.

[Randle McMurphy]

I'm not trading for Shohei as a rental on this particular team. We're 6.5 out of the division and very well may not be a WC team after Judge returns.

[Potential]

Trading for Ohtani is literally trading for 2 players in 1. We get an elite SP and an everyday elite batter. Don't see it happening tho and don't think we should

[Cyrus]

Let's say angels accept the deal:

Would you do:

Kirk
Alex Monah
Vasho
One top prospect

For

Ontario

Basically our worst preforming player but years of control and this is purely rental. Do you do it?

I know angels won't ever do it, but you ready to give 15 or so years of control?

[SharoneWright]

Let's say angels accept the deal:

Would you do:

Kirk
Alex Monah
Vasho
One top prospect ---> Tiedemann

For

Ontario

Basically our worst preforming player but years of control and this is purely rental. Do you do it?

I know angels won't ever do it, but you ready to give 15 or so years of control?

I would do and I am.

because......1. They probably say no to your deal (like you said [even though you just subbed Kirk for Martinez]).

because......2. I want to make sure we get this deal done.

because......3. I think it gives us a real chance to win the World Series.

Which, to me, makes it worth it.

because......i) We win the World Series!

and...........ii) We would become heavy favourites to re-sign him to a 7+ year future for Toronto.

(Ryu's 20MIL comes off the books next year. So does Chapman's 12M. So does whatever Manoah and Varsho would make. You promote Barger (or Martinez) to 3B. We roll with a cheap 3B, 2B, 4th OF,,, Vlad is relatively underpaid, Bichette is relatively underpaid and cost-controlled, Kikuchi comes off after 1 more year, but Springer is yikes pretty soon.... Certainly we would have a very handsomely paid starting 5)

It's a gamble, yes. But it's not unreasonable to have doubts over Manoah, Martinez, Kirk, Varsho, etc... Selling low? Or maybe just in time?

[Cyrus]

Let's say angels accept the deal:

Would you do:

Kirk
Alex Monah
Vasho
One top prospect ---> Tiedemann

For

Ohtani

Basically our worst preforming player but years of control and this is purely rental. Do you do it?

I know angels won't ever do it, but you ready to give 15 or so years of control?

I would do and I am.

because......1. They probably say no to your deal (like you said [even though you just subbed Kirk for Martinez]).

because......2. I want to make sure we get this deal done.

because......3. I think it gives us a real chance to win the World Series.

Which, to me, makes it worth it.

because......i) We win the World Series!

and...........ii) We would become heavy favourites to re-sign him to a 7+ year future for Toronto.

(Ryu's 20MIL comes off the books next year. So does Chapman's 12M. So does whatever Manoah and Varsho would make. You promote Barger (or Martinez) to 3B. We roll with a cheap 3B, 2B, 4th OF,,, Vlad is relatively underpaid, Bichette is relatively underpaid and cost-controlled, Kikuchi comes off after 1 more year, but Springer is yikes pretty soon.... Certainly we would have a very handsomely paid starting 5)

It's a gamble, yes. But it's not unreasonable to have doubts over Manoah, Martinez, Kirk, Varsho, etc... Selling low? Or maybe just in time?

No in my scenario, this is purely a rental, you know he's leaving, or will require a 700 mill contract. Basically what I'm getting at is would you give up all that control even though they arehaving terrible year for 2 months of ohtani

[bluerap23]

I think it is unlikely, and personally, I'd prefer to enter the bidding in the off-season.

But according to Passan we are in it:

Despite currently holding the final wild-card spot, Toronto hasn't done enough to convince ownership to open up the coffers, leaving the Blue Jays precisely where they've been all season: the muddled middle. That said, when asked where Ohtani could wind up if he's moved, three of the most popular answers from executives are Baltimore, Tampa Bay and Toronto (the Blue Jays are a longer shot due to a thinner farm system).

https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/insider/story/_/id/38058400/mlb-trade-deadline-2023-jeff-passan-rumors-buzz

[Fairview4Life]

Lol, I will believe in Baltimore trading for Ohtani when the team is sold.

[ItsDanger]

You're realistically looking at just a rental, he's going to get signed in the offseason by Yankees, Dodgers, etc. The cost/benefit seems questionable in this division. I don't have a solution but being in the East is a backbreaker for playoff aspirations.