Jays acquire Jordan Hicks

[Cyrus]

I dunno Hicks walks a bunch of guys, what is walks per 9?

And we gave up albiet our farm isn't greatest, one of our top 10 pick and former 2nd rounder for 2 months of Hicks?

[dagger]

I dunno Hicks walks a bunch of guys, what is walks per 9?

And we gave up albiet our farm isn't greatest, one of our top 10 pick and former 2nd rounder for 2 months of Hicks?

Kloffenstein wasn't projecting as anything special, he had stabilized a bit vs last season, but at this point he wasn't;t going to be in our plans in 2024 - all of our starters except Ryu are under countract, and if the Jays can keep Tiedemann healthy for a change, he will enter the 2024 picture at some point. Barriera is behind him, we added a college pitcher with our third rounder this year, and so this isn't a huge concern. Robberse is a bigger loss, but the same criteria apply - he wasn't going to impact 2024 and maybe not even 2025. In the meantime, the Jays get to show Hicks their mid-term potential and that has to give them some sort of added cred in offering him a new deal. Chad Green also continues to progress, so we might well have an excellent playoff-calibre bullpen.

[vaff87]

I dunno Hicks walks a bunch of guys, what is walks per 9?

And we gave up albiet our farm isn't greatest, one of our top 10 pick and former 2nd rounder for 2 months of Hicks?

He does walk a lot of guys, but almost of these guys that throw in the 100s do. A lot of dominant relievers have high walk rates.

[polo007]

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[Cyrus]

I dunno Hicks walks a bunch of guys, what is walks per 9?

And we gave up albiet our farm isn't greatest, one of our top 10 pick and former 2nd rounder for 2 months of Hicks?

Kloffenstein wasn't projecting as anything special, he had stabilized a bit vs last season, but at this point he wasn't;t going to be in our plans in 2024 - all of our starters except Ryu are under countract, and if the Jays can keep Tiedemann healthy for a change, he will enter the 2024 picture at some point. Barriera is behind him, we added a college pitcher with our third rounder this year, and so this isn't a huge concern. Robberse is a bigger loss, but the same criteria apply - he wasn't going to impact 2024 and maybe not even 2025. In the meantime, the Jays get to show Hicks their mid-term potential and that has to give them some sort of added cred in offering him a new deal. Chad Green also continues to progress, so we might well have an excellent playoff-calibre bullpen.

I think both guys were going to be in the rule 5 draft unless added to the 40 man roster, so that definitely played a role. Which i asked in the minor league thread who are our rule 5 guys coming. I think these are the guys we'll use as chips or atleast consolidate

[Schad]

I'm not the biggest fan of Hicks, who hasn't gotten the greatest results despite his stuff. At the same time, the Cardinals -- who used to be regarded as one of, if not the best pitching development teams in baseball -- have really struggled in recent years to get the most out of their high-octane arms, and Hicks has utterly ludicrous stuff. It's not merely that he throws 102, he throws 102 and gives up very little power, which is a great combination.

[JTT]

I dunno Hicks walks a bunch of guys, what is walks per 9?

And we gave up albiet our farm isn't greatest, one of our top 10 pick and former 2nd rounder for 2 months of Hicks?

Kloffenstein wasn't projecting as anything special, he had stabilized a bit vs last season, but at this point he wasn't;t going to be in our plans in 2024 - all of our starters except Ryu are under countract, and if the Jays can keep Tiedemann healthy for a change, he will enter the 2024 picture at some point. Barriera is behind him, we added a college pitcher with our third rounder this year, and so this isn't a huge concern. Robberse is a bigger loss, but the same criteria apply - he wasn't going to impact 2024 and maybe not even 2025. In the meantime, the Jays get to show Hicks their mid-term potential and that has to give them some sort of added cred in offering him a new deal. Chad Green also continues to progress, so we might well have an excellent playoff-calibre bullpen.

I think both guys were going to be in the rule 5 draft unless added to the 40 man roster, so that definitely played a role. Which i asked in the minor league thread who are our rule 5 guys coming. I think these are the guys we'll use as chips or atleast consolidate

Good catch. Pretty sure you’re right

[Randle McMurphy]

I'm not the biggest fan of Hicks, who hasn't gotten the greatest results despite his stuff. At the same time, the Cardinals -- who used to be regarded as one of, if not the best pitching development teams in baseball -- have really struggled in recent years to get the most out of their high-octane arms, and Hicks has utterly ludicrous stuff. It's not merely that he throws 102, he throws 102 and gives up very little power, which is a great combination.

He has no clue where his pitches are going but there’s value in having a guy like this to blow teams away when you really need a strikeout late in a game. He is both incredibly hard to make contact off and square up. Would be better if we had a manager that knew how to use him properly though.

[Michael Bradley]

I like adding Hicks to the bullpen. In the playoffs and/or to be a playoff caliber team, you need to have velocity and K's in the back end of the bullpen. The Jays have been lacking that, but that could change pretty quickly with adding Hicks and hopefully a healthy Chad Green soon. Schneider loves to take starters out of the game early, and if he were to do that in a playoff environment again, then at least now it's deep enough to potentially work in his favor.

[Lateral Quicks]

Adding Hicks and Green to the bullpen could be a huge boost down the stretch.

The price seems pretty steep for a rental, but flags fly forever and all that...

[vaff87]

I'm not the biggest fan of Hicks, who hasn't gotten the greatest results despite his stuff. At the same time, the Cardinals -- who used to be regarded as one of, if not the best pitching development teams in baseball -- have really struggled in recent years to get the most out of their high-octane arms, and Hicks has utterly ludicrous stuff. It's not merely that he throws 102, he throws 102 and gives up very little power, which is a great combination.

He has no clue where his pitches are going but there’s value in having a guy like this to blow teams away when you really need a strikeout late in a game. He is both incredibly hard to make contact off and square up. Would be better if we had a manager that knew how to use him properly though.

It must be frightening to face a guy that can reach 104-105, has radical movement, and very little ability to throw it where he wants to.

[Schad]

He has no clue where his pitches are going but there’s value in having a guy like this to blow teams away when you really need a strikeout late in a game. He is both incredibly hard to make contact off and square up. Would be better if we had a manager that knew how to use him properly though.

Prior to this year he wasn't really a strikeout guy...it's a large part of the reason I didn't like him. He's getting them now though, and has been lights out for the past three months with both the highest K rate of his career and the lowest walk rate (3.14 BB/9 over his past 26 appearances). Definitely a useful addition and potentially re-signable at a rational rate.

Our 'pen was good and now looks to be quite formidable when Romano returns. Romano, Hicks, Swanson, Mayza, Cabrera, Pearson, Richards and Jackson/Yimi (with Green in the wings) is an awful lot of firepower.

[polo007]

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[Hottie McShotty]

Does this mean that Nate Pearson is no longer needed? It seems possible that he could be traded as part of a package deal for a hitter.

[Cyrus]

Does this mean that Nate Pearson is no longer needed? It seems possible that he could be traded as part of a package deal for a hitter.

Possibly but I doubt it, we need a guy with options who can come up if a reliever gets hurt.

And with Romano, green and other leverage pitchers who can be injury prone, it's good to have a guy who can throw heat that can be called up.

Also dont see a rental piece that positional whose worth Nate the great or hate

[TOStateofMind]

So what I gather he could look like the nastiest pitcher ever or the most frustrating cause he cant throw a strike lol. Either way the stuff is ridiculous so should be quite the watch.

[polo007]

Law: Cardinals capitalize on trades with Rangers, Blue Jays in rare turn as sellers - The Athletic

There was talk about the Cardinals working out a long-term extension with Hicks, which would have been incredibly misguided for a reliever who’s already had Tommy John surgery and has consistently had walk rates far worse than the league average, including this year where he’s walked 12.7 percent of batters faced (NL average for relievers: 9.6 percent). Yes, Hicks sits 100-plus mph on his sinker and his sweeper/slider/dojigger gets a ton of whiffs, and that gives him some value because he gets groundballs and misses bats. He also walks too many guys and when he gives up contact it’s generally very hard contact, which is why he’s only been worth a win above replacement in 215 career innings. The Jays did just place closer Jordan Romano on the IL with a back injury, and their right-handed relief corps has been solid but unspectacular. Hicks gives them a different look and someone beyond Trevor Richards who comes into a game with a high probability that he’ll strike out the next batter.

Right-hander Sem Robberse is the better of the two prospects coming to the Cardinals in this trade, although he’s had a disappointing 2023 where his stuff hasn’t progressed at all from last year and is sliding even as the season has gone along. He was signed at 16 out of the Netherlands as a highly projectable pitcher with a great delivery and command for his age, but who was working in the mid-80s. He’s still mostly just 90-92 mph, topping out at 94 mph, with a 55 slider and curveball as well as a solid-average changeup, which should make him a back-end starter … but hitters get on his fastball, hitting nine of the 14 homers he’s allowed this year off the heater, and that propensity for hard contact keeps him from projecting as a starter right now. He won’t turn 22 until October so he’s young enough to find another 2-3 mph somewhere. That might make him a mid-rotation starter, whereas now he might just be an emergency call-up.

Right-hander Adam Kloffenstein repeated Double A this year and had improved results, although his stuff is still average at best and he’s going to have a harder time against even slightly more disciplined hitters. His best pitch, and his most-used one, is his slider, which was below-average last year but is solid-average now with a little better break and more velocity. He’s 90-94 mph now, up a little from 90-92 last year, although the pitch still doesn’t miss any bats and he has below-average command. His changeup is a distant third among his pitches and as a result, he’s had enough of a platoon split to question whether he could start even if his fastball and slider were better. I think he’s got a reliever ceiling, although that could work if moving to shorter outings boosts the velocity and effectiveness of the slider, but the most likely outcome is that he’s an up-and-down guy. For Hicks, who’s been wild when he hasn’t been hurt, this seems like a fair return as well.

[Schad]

when he gives up contact it’s generally very hard contact

This is just straight-up incorrect. Hicks is in the 91st percentile for average exit velocity and 98th percentile for expected slugging (his career xSLG is 118 points better than the league average), and his career HR/9 is 0.5. His problem is that he walks way too many batters and, before this season, didn't strike enough guys out, and because he was pitching with runners on most of the time that meant runs.

[Cyrus]

You think maybe we made this deal, because Jordan Romano injury might be more pressing/serious than what's being reported. Couldn't pitch allstar game, and first few games after it, then did, but has been shaky for a bit, before going on the IL. Maybe they got ahead of it and have a closing option instead of looking internal closing by committee duties?

[dagger]

You think maybe we made this deal, because Jordan Romano injury might be more pressing/serious than what's being reported. Couldn't pitch allstar game, and first few games after it, then did, but has been shaky for a bit, before going on the IL. Maybe they got ahead of it and have a closing option instead of looking internal closing by committee duties?

That's possible, it 's also possible that it's nothing serious but he needs the time off. Either way, it's an insurance policy for this season, and depending on how both parties feel, it might pave the way for another contract.