Blue Jays 23/24 Offseason Thread

[DelAbbot]

I was playing OOTP24 and noticed we had Chad Green deadweight for 10M each of 2024 and 2025? I couldn't believe it at first then I checked BR and it's true. What a clusterf Atkins - f the f off

This team is doomed to sub-mediocrity. I'll be rooting for its demise until Atkins and Shapiro are fired

[WuTang_OG]

the best thing jays did this off-season was fire aramark foods and bring in the yankees catering for food

rogers centre was serving dog food for years

[agkagk]

Rosario - hes stinks! But he signed for 1.5 million and today gio urshela signed for 1.5


Dear god what did we sign falefa for?

……Yuck!

[Ranger One]

So we've seen Vlady and Manoah show up to camp in the best shape of their lives. What about Kirk? Are we not holding him to the same standards just because he's a catcher? He had a horrific year and the weight clearly affected his swing and his timing. And the less said about his base running the better. I really hope he took a page from Vladdy and Alek and worked his ass off this offseason.

[Madvillainy2004]

So we've seen Vlady and Manoah show up to camp in the best shape of their lives. What about Kirk? Are we not holding him to the same standards just because he's a catcher? He had a horrific year and the weight clearly affected his swing and his timing. And the less said about his base running the better. I really hope he took a page from Vladdy and Alek and worked his ass off this offseason.

Kirk did have a pretty big step down from his 3.6 fWAR 2022 but he led the team in defensive fWAR and was one of the better defensive catchers in the league. I think his bat will come back I just don't know if his weight impacted his swing at all like he's had this build since he's been a pro. Mightve just been a down year, but Kirk unlike Vlad and Manoah actually contributed pretty positively overall. I think Vlad and Manoah have a lot more to prove than Kirk anyways.

[Ranger One]

So we've seen Vlady and Manoah show up to camp in the best shape of their lives. What about Kirk? Are we not holding him to the same standards just because he's a catcher? He had a horrific year and the weight clearly affected his swing and his timing. And the less said about his base running the better. I really hope he took a page from Vladdy and Alek and worked his ass off this offseason.

Kirk did have a pretty big step down from his 3.6 fWAR 2022 but he led the team in defensive fWAR and was one of the better defensive catchers in the league. I think his bat will come back I just don't know if his weight impacted his swing at all like he's had this build since he's been a pro. Mightve just been a down year, but Kirk unlike Vlad and Manoah actually contributed pretty positively overall. I think Vlad and Manoah have a lot more to prove than Kirk anyways.

Sounds like a whole lot of excuse making to me. My point was that there's not exactly a downside to a professional athlete trying to better themselves by getting into shape. Unless he had an MVP type season, there's literally no reason for him to not be in shape.

[Madvillainy2004]

So we've seen Vlady and Manoah show up to camp in the best shape of their lives. What about Kirk? Are we not holding him to the same standards just because he's a catcher? He had a horrific year and the weight clearly affected his swing and his timing. And the less said about his base running the better. I really hope he took a page from Vladdy and Alek and worked his ass off this offseason.

Kirk did have a pretty big step down from his 3.6 fWAR 2022 but he led the team in defensive fWAR and was one of the better defensive catchers in the league. I think his bat will come back I just don't know if his weight impacted his swing at all like he's had this build since he's been a pro. Mightve just been a down year, but Kirk unlike Vlad and Manoah actually contributed pretty positively overall. I think Vlad and Manoah have a lot more to prove than Kirk anyways.

Sounds like a whole lot of excuse making to me. My point was that there's not exactly a downside to a professional athlete trying to better themselves by getting into shape. Unless he had an MVP type season, there's literally no reason for him to not be in shape.

I'm not trying to make excuses but this is just how Kirk's always been. I don't think we're gonna see some crazy athlete. If Kirk improves his hitting a bit he'll firmly be in the top 8 or so catchers. For reference he had 0.1 less fWAR than "insane athlete/carried team to WS" Moreno. And is like a year older lol

I believe last year was probably Kirk's floor, but Vlad and Manoah especially, have way more to prove than him. He's also quieter so he's not exaclty posting on social media all the time. I'm not even sure manaoh is a major leaguer rn and Vlad is coming off a dreadful season with some of the worst defense in the sport.

[bluerap23]

Kirk did have a pretty big step down from his 3.6 fWAR 2022 but he led the team in defensive fWAR and was one of the better defensive catchers in the league. I think his bat will come back I just don't know if his weight impacted his swing at all like he's had this build since he's been a pro. Mightve just been a down year, but Kirk unlike Vlad and Manoah actually contributed pretty positively overall. I think Vlad and Manoah have a lot more to prove than Kirk anyways.

Sounds like a whole lot of excuse making to me. My point was that there's not exactly a downside to a professional athlete trying to better themselves by getting into shape. Unless he had an MVP type season, there's literally no reason for him to not be in shape.

I'm not trying to make excuses but this is just how Kirk's always been. I don't think we're gonna see some crazy athlete. If Kirk improves his hitting a bit he'll firmly be in the top 8 or so catchers. For reference he had 0.1 less fWAR than "insane athlete/carried team to WS" Moreno. And is like a year older lol

I believe last year was probably Kirk's floor, but Vlad and Manoah especially, have way more to prove than him. He's also quieter so he's not exaclty posting on social media all the time. I'm not even sure manaoh is a major leaguer rn and Vlad is coming off a dreadful season with some of the worst defense in the sport.

2021 was Kirk's skinny year when he came to camp having dropped a ton of weight. That year he struggled with injuries and only played 60 games. He was actually in worse shape in 2022 when he was an all-star. Last year he looked really fat though. Hoping he is in better shape this year.

[rapstarter]

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[Hottie McShotty]

nowhere near the $200 mil he was looking for. At that price, you gotta ask why the Jays weren't in on him.

[bartron_44]

The Jays seem happy to leave 2B and 3B open for competition. IKFs ability to play anywhere but C and 1B make him an extremely valuable bench piece. If they wanted, they could get away with a 3 man bench of IKF, Biggio and whoever isn’t catching that day between Jansen and Kirk.

Ideally, Escobar has returned to his all-star form and wins the 3B role out of spring training, and the top 9 hitters would look like:

C-Jansen/Kirk
DH-Turner
1B-Vlad
2B-Schneider
SS-Bo
3B-Escobar
LF-Varsho
CF-KK
RF-Springer

Espinal is placed on waivers to make room on the 40 man; and the kids start the year in the minors.

This would allow them to keep an extra bullpen arm. However, I would still like to see them add another OF like Michael Taylor. He would make an excellent 4th OF on this team. He’s a former GG CF that still posted an OPS of .914 against LHP last year in Minn with 9HR and 17 total extra base hits in 112 PAs.

Another option nobody has really talked about is Blake Snell. I know Kikuchi was great last year, and they are hoping for a bounce back from Manoah, but wouldn’t signing Snell be a MAJOR upgrade? Not to mention keep him from putting on pinstripes …

If they are really all in on run prevention like it seems, signing the best available SP on the market would seem like a great fit. Worst thing that could happen is that everyone looks great and you have Kikuchi in the bullpen throwing upper 90s with a wipeout breaking ball.

They would have 4+ guys that could play each OF position, and at least one backup everywhere on the infield.

[duppyy]

Varsho went 3-3 with 3 RBI, good start to spring training for him.

[DelAbbot]

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[DelAbbot]

Varsho went 3-3 with 3 RBI, good start to spring training for him.

spring training numbers are usually opposite of regular season

it's a bad omen

[DelAbbot]

So we've seen Vlady and Manoah show up to camp in the best shape of their lives. What about Kirk? Are we not holding him to the same standards just because he's a catcher? He had a horrific year and the weight clearly affected his swing and his timing. And the less said about his base running the better. I really hope he took a page from Vladdy and Alek and worked his ass off this offseason.

Kirk did have a pretty big step down from his 3.6 fWAR 2022 but he led the team in defensive fWAR and was one of the better defensive catchers in the league. I think his bat will come back I just don't know if his weight impacted his swing at all like he's had this build since he's been a pro. Mightve just been a down year, but Kirk unlike Vlad and Manoah actually contributed pretty positively overall. I think Vlad and Manoah have a lot more to prove than Kirk anyways.

Sounds like a whole lot of excuse making to me. My point was that there's not exactly a downside to a professional athlete trying to better themselves by getting into shape. Unless he had an MVP type season, there's literally no reason for him to not be in shape.

Who remembers Vladdy talking about his grandma's cooking changed his body 3 years ago

[pilkoids]

Been out of the loop with the whole Chapman thing... what are his options right now?

[Cyrus]

nowhere near the $200 mil he was looking for. At that price, you gotta ask why the Jays weren't in on him.

It's basically a 1 year 30 mill deal, or 2 year 60 mill, unless he's injuried or plays horrible, he's opting out.

Either way though, i don't mind giving him a balloon 1 year deal.

[wamco]

Ideally Atkins can flex his in house contingency plans for 3b on boras and get a team friendly/fair deal for Chapman without opt outs.

It looks like 2b is the preferred home for Orelvis so ideally he is up by midseason and that moves guys over to 3b primarily as well.

It could come down to something like Atkins has 13m to spend this season (stated need to cut to add).

So do you take option a:
Let Chapman walk. Roll the dice that someone will run with the 3b job. Assume a mid season add of Orelvis is a good enough offensive upgrade until the deadline. Sign a lefty masher OF cheap now and use the remainder of the 13m at the deadline. Keep espinal, Garcia, Richards

Or option b:
Get Chapman at 23m and trade Garcia, Richards, espinal

[dagger]

nowhere near the $200 mil he was looking for. At that price, you gotta ask why the Jays weren't in on him.

It's basically a 1 year 30 mill deal, or 2 year 60 mill, unless he's injuried or plays horrible, he's opting out.

Either way though, i don't mind giving him a balloon 1 year deal.

Given that he's 31 in April, and coming off a season where his bat failed us after April, I'd say a two-year deal with a reasonable team/option buyout of the second would be reasonable, but with prospects looming, there is no way the Jays should be tied to him through his declining years.

[dagger]

Ideally Atkins can flex his in house contingency plans for 3b on boras and get a team friendly/fair deal for Chapman without opt outs.

It looks like 2b is the preferred home for Orelvis so ideally he is up by midseason and that moves guys over to 3b primarily as well.

It could come down to something like Atkins has 13m to spend this season (stated need to cut to add).

So do you take option a:
Let Chapman walk. Roll the dice that someone will run with the 3b job. Assume a mid season add of Orelvis is a good enough offensive upgrade until the deadline. Sign a lefty masher OF cheap now and use the remainder of the 13m at the deadline. Keep espinal, Garcia, Richards

Or option b:
Get Chapman at 23m and trade Garcia, Richards, espinal

Two prospects I'm watching who could, by virtue of their negligible rookie salary, play into this. Alan Roden, as fourth outfielder/1B or even regular left-fielder with Kiermaeir becoming the fourth outfielder in a rotation with Springer in particular who would see more DH when Turner is playing some 3B. And Connor Cooke, as a one inning guy in the pen.