JN wrote:JN wrote:Let's hope Berrios is on today.
Of course even if that is the case, you know JS will likely rush it to the pen as soon as possible to show he is doing something in a must win game/
I said this after Berrios had faced a few batters in the bottom of the first, somewhat jokingly (pg 3 of this thread). Little did I know.
I admit I was much more angry, and still am more angry about the Berrios pull than the Jays losing. I was not surprised by the Jays offence sputtering - I had seen enough to expect that - at this point the continued disappointment reduces anger in that regard.
But the Berrios pull seemed so idiotic, so momentum shifting, so offensive to my personal senses of analytics combined with judgment. I know Randle has pointed out the 2020 Shoemaker situation, but Shoemaker is not Berrios... perhaps I should not have been stunned... I didn't follow 2020 team like I did post 2021 onwards.
Shoemaker is/was not as good as Berrios (well at least not this year's version), but was pitching nearly as good a game as Berrios when he was pulled against the Rays in 2020.
viewtopic.php?f=123&t=2002158&start=40
You can see the general reaction to the move here in the thread above (it was not positive). My immediate reaction as well (I had less disgust for this front office in those days):
Randle McMurphy wrote:The Jays made a decision there with Shoemaker/Ray that I don't think any team in baseball history would have made.
It's an interesting experiment to make decisions completely by general probability without regard to game context at all. Backfired on them there completely but interesting nonetheless.
Randle McMurphy wrote:Also, for anybody blaming Montoyo for that, don't be ridiculous. Management told him to do that no matter what before the game.
Randle McMurphy wrote:So Rays pulled Snell because the computers said he shouldn't pitch three times through the order despite the fact he was rolling. Not as extreme as what the Jays did, but the same thing in principle.
This stuff never would have happened even 5 years ago.
The Rays of course followed that up by pulling Snell in the World Series when he was completely shutting down the Dodgers, leading to a loss. The Jays then did the same thing yesterday because the numbers told them on average Berrios is worse the second time through the order and Kikuchi gives them the platoon advantage on numerous LHBs.
Baseball is only going further in this direction and the puppet managers these teams employ won't do anything to stop it.
