Fire John Schneider / Or the Analytics Staff and Above Now... just fire somebody for this!

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Toronto media’s job isn’t to create controversy. In fact a lot of them are paid by the people who own the Blue Jays and are much more incentivized to say everything is going great.

If anything it's set up from top, to change the narrative and direction that he's on his way out. We've seen this time and time again with the Raptors in the past, how it was quick 180 from coach of the year nick nurse to selfish Nick nurse, to VC being selfish, to oh maybe VC is the greatest raptors of all time, lets forgive him... it's funny how it's all group think, it's all being suggested/fed.

The question is Atkins gone this year or next year.

might be. haven't thought of that angle. Atkins signed till 2026. i'd say he has 1 more year to do something to fix the lineup.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Toronto media’s job isn’t to create controversy. In fact a lot of them are paid by the people who own the Blue Jays and are much more incentivized to say everything is going great.

fair enough. maybe creating controversy is not the correct statement but more like create the conversation/ angle of what someone or a group wants to accomplish.

funny though i believe if Atkins said if it was a group/organization decision i.e. in line with what everyone else was saying, some of you guys would be saying Atkins didn't take the blame or will find something wrong with what he said. and the media would still roast him lol.

[Fairview4Life]

Toronto media’s job isn’t to create controversy. In fact a lot of them are paid by the people who own the Blue Jays and are much more incentivized to say everything is going great.

fair enough. maybe creating controversy is not the correct statement but more like create the conversation/ angle of what someone or a group wants to accomplish.

funny though i believe if Atkins said if it was a group/organization decision i.e. in line with what everyone else was saying, some of you guys would be saying Atkins didn't take the blame or will find something wrong with what he said. and the media would still roast him lol.

Personally I would be far more impressed if he had said it was an org decision and defended it, and even more impressed if he said it was an org decision and a mistake because they should take into account how well a pitcher is playing in that particular game.

[Randle McMurphy]

Toronto media’s job isn’t to create controversy. In fact a lot of them are paid by the people who own the Blue Jays and are much more incentivized to say everything is going great.

fair enough. maybe creating controversy is not the correct statement but more like create the conversation/ angle of what someone or a group wants to accomplish.

funny though i believe if Atkins said if it was a group/organization decision i.e. in line with what everyone else was saying, some of you guys would be saying Atkins didn't take the blame or will find something wrong with what he said. and the media would still roast him lol.

Personally I would be far more impressed if he had said it was an org decision and defended it, and even more impressed if he said it was an org decision and a mistake because they should take into account how well a pitcher is playing in that particular game.

The former constitutes the full truth which he doesn't want revealed (that Schneider is effectively a puppet to fulfill what management wants) and the latter isn't something he actually believes as far as I can tell.

[Randle McMurphy]

In his book released earlier this year, Gibby: Tales of A Baseball Lifer, Gibbons described the challenges.

“It was truly so different for me than it had been working with (former GMs J.P. Ricciardi and Alex Anthopoulos),” Gibbons wrote. “Decisions were made, and not only was I not consulted, but they directly changed how I operated.”

In other words, the old-school managerial style had no place. Gibbons further explained that the coercion from the front office demanded a certain passive personality to fit.

“Because some guys are very flexible and they want a job so bad, they’ll do anything to appease everybody to save themselves,” Gibbons wrote. “Not me. I figure bosses should know the real person they’re getting, not some phoney politician.”

https://torontosun.com/sports/baseball/toronto-blue-jays/mismanaging-managers-has-been-jays-way

[Fairview4Life]

Still not sure if I dare rate Gibby over Cito out loud in public, but in my heart it’s tough to say he wasn’t the best Jays manager of the past 30 years.

[Randle McMurphy]

Still not sure if I dare rate Gibby over Cito out loud in public but in my heart, it’s tough to say he wasn’t the best Jays manager of the past 30 years.

Would agree. Cito was fine (although I only remember him from the end of his first tenure and the second tenure), but Gibbons was better.

[Randle McMurphy]

Read on Twitter

[C Court]

Read on Twitter

[polo007]

Read on Twitter

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[polo007]

For more than a decade Jonah Sigel has faithfully represented Toronto sports fans with his Toronto Sports Media blog, Twitter account @yyzsportsmedia and now his podcast. He works full-time as a technology executive.

Jonah Sigel | LinkedIn



You can find Jonah Sigel's archived LinkedIn profile at the following link:

https://archive.ph/3y8nE

Inside the Toronto Sports Media Scene - Jonah Sigel in conversation with TBP Podcast EP 025

Inside the Toronto Sports Media Scene – Jonah Sigel in conversation with TBP Podcast EP 025

By Mark Silver

March 17, 2021

Being a Toronto sports fan hasn’t been easy for many generations of Torontonians. Of course, the Raptors NBA title was kind of a reset for the city, and there were a couple of crazy Blue Jays runs a few years back, but those were more so the Toronto sports awakening for millennials. For Gen X, in the stretch from 1967 to 1991, hope was just a dangerous word.

The most seminal moments were those back-to-back Blue Jays titles and the anger of the 1993 Leafs’ playoff run. Enter Jonah Sigel, a Gen-Xer who decided to carry the weight of his generation and city on his back. For more than a decade Jonah has faithfully represented Toronto sports fans with his Toronto Sports Media blog, Twitter account @yyzsportsmedia and now his podcast. While he’s not in the media business for his day job as a technology executive, he’s made it his passion to promote transparency in the goings’ on, both with the Toronto sports teams and media outlets, as we discussed in-depth on this episode.

[Raps in 4]

For more than a decade Jonah Sigel has faithfully represented Toronto sports fans with his Toronto Sports Media blog, Twitter account @yyzsportsmedia and now his podcast. He works full-time as a technology executive.

Jonah Sigel | LinkedIn



You can find Jonah Sigel's archived LinkedIn profile at the following link:

https://archive.ph/3y8nE

Inside the Toronto Sports Media Scene - Jonah Sigel in conversation with TBP Podcast EP 025

Inside the Toronto Sports Media Scene – Jonah Sigel in conversation with TBP Podcast EP 025

By Mark Silver

March 17, 2021

Being a Toronto sports fan hasn’t been easy for many generations of Torontonians. Of course, the Raptors NBA title was kind of a reset for the city, and there were a couple of crazy Blue Jays runs a few years back, but those were more so the Toronto sports awakening for millennials. For Gen X, in the stretch from 1967 to 1991, hope was just a dangerous word.

The most seminal moments were those back-to-back Blue Jays titles and the anger of the 1993 Leafs’ playoff run. Enter Jonah Sigel, a Gen-Xer who decided to carry the weight of his generation and city on his back. For more than a decade Jonah has faithfully represented Toronto sports fans with his Toronto Sports Media blog, Twitter account @yyzsportsmedia and now his podcast. While he’s not in the media business for his day job as a technology executive, he’s made it his passion to promote transparency in the goings’ on, both with the Toronto sports teams and media outlets, as we discussed in-depth on this episode.

I want to believe.

[polo007]

Mismanaging their managers has become the Toronto Blue Jays' way | Toronto Sun

So what happened in Minneapolis?

Did a phone ring in the dugout, prompting what appeared to be a rattled Schneider to make the move?

Was the front-office pressure so overt that he felt he had no choice in the matter, despite Berrios dealing with a clear mental and physical edge on Twins hitters?

In the aftermath, Atkins added to the absurdity by denying it was his call and that he had “100% confidence it was not front-office pressure” that spurred Schneider into the erratic action.
Article content

“I was surprised he was coming out,” the embattled GM incredulously added.

Few are buying it, however, as the team’s intent to tightly rein its managers continued. As one source familiar with the Jays front office to dugout dynamic noted to the Toronto Sun: “No one in their right mind believes that (Schneider) made that decision on his own.”

In reality, the disconnect between the front office and the manager’s chair has had varying degrees of volatility for the past seven seasons.

The first manager of the Shapiro-Atkins reign was fan and player favourite John Gibbons, a match doomed to failure from the day it began. The problem for the front office was that the old-school Gibby teams were playoff stalwarts in 2015 and 2016, so it would take two more seasons and a teardown before they could run him out of town.

In his book released earlier this year, Gibby: Tales of A Baseball Lifer, Gibbons described the challenges.

“It was truly so different for me than it had been working with (former GMs J.P. Ricciardi and Alex Anthopoulos),” Gibbons wrote. “Decisions were made, and not only was I not consulted, but they directly changed how I operated.”

In other words, the old-school managerial style had no place. Gibbons further explained that the coercion from the front office demanded a certain passive personality to fit.

“Because some guys are very flexible and they want a job so bad, they’ll do anything to appease everybody to save themselves,” Gibbons wrote. “Not me. I figure bosses should know the real person they’re getting, not some phoney politician.”

[Raps in 4]

Mismanaging their managers has become the Toronto Blue Jays' way | Toronto Sun

So what happened in Minneapolis?

Did a phone ring in the dugout, prompting what appeared to be a rattled Schneider to make the move?

Was the front-office pressure so overt that he felt he had no choice in the matter, despite Berrios dealing with a clear mental and physical edge on Twins hitters?

In the aftermath, Atkins added to the absurdity by denying it was his call and that he had “100% confidence it was not front-office pressure” that spurred Schneider into the erratic action.
Article content

“I was surprised he was coming out,” the embattled GM incredulously added.

Few are buying it, however, as the team’s intent to tightly rein its managers continued. As one source familiar with the Jays front office to dugout dynamic noted to the Toronto Sun: “No one in their right mind believes that (Schneider) made that decision on his own.”

In reality, the disconnect between the front office and the manager’s chair has had varying degrees of volatility for the past seven seasons.

The first manager of the Shapiro-Atkins reign was fan and player favourite John Gibbons, a match doomed to failure from the day it began. The problem for the front office was that the old-school Gibby teams were playoff stalwarts in 2015 and 2016, so it would take two more seasons and a teardown before they could run him out of town.

In his book released earlier this year, Gibby: Tales of A Baseball Lifer, Gibbons described the challenges.

“It was truly so different for me than it had been working with (former GMs J.P. Ricciardi and Alex Anthopoulos),” Gibbons wrote. “Decisions were made, and not only was I not consulted, but they directly changed how I operated.”

In other words, the old-school managerial style had no place. Gibbons further explained that the coercion from the front office demanded a certain passive personality to fit.

“Because some guys are very flexible and they want a job so bad, they’ll do anything to appease everybody to save themselves,” Gibbons wrote. “Not me. I figure bosses should know the real person they’re getting, not some phoney politician.”

Our manager says it was the FO's decision.

The players say this was the FO's decision.

Insiders say this was the FO's decision.

Our former manager says this was the FO's decision.

We've seen this same type of decision made by both Montoyo and Schneider now.

But Atkins says he had no part in it. This guy should be a comedian.

[Cyrus]

The Sad part of it all, no one is taking accountability to it. Our manager said it was organizational thing, so he's washed himself of accountability since either he truly didn't believe in what he was doing. Our GM isn't talking any accountability, basically said it was all coaches decisions, and he doesn't sit in those meetings.

I mean tha'ts probably true, GM's don't have time to sit in the meetings of gameplan discussions,but you can bet on his reports does.

Also the timing of press conf was odd, on a Saturday on a long weekend, probably wanted to bury the discussion amongst the casuals on the weekend.

But what is also odd is Mark Shapiro press conf is this upcoming Thursday. A week after the jays elimination, if that's the case why didn't they hold Ross meeting on thursday as well, prior to Mark, or at the very least Wednesday. the timing or something is odd about it.

[Duffman100]

For more than a decade Jonah Sigel has faithfully represented Toronto sports fans with his Toronto Sports Media blog, Twitter account @yyzsportsmedia and now his podcast. He works full-time as a technology executive.

Jonah Sigel | LinkedIn



You can find Jonah Sigel's archived LinkedIn profile at the following link:

https://archive.ph/3y8nE

Inside the Toronto Sports Media Scene - Jonah Sigel in conversation with TBP Podcast EP 025

Inside the Toronto Sports Media Scene – Jonah Sigel in conversation with TBP Podcast EP 025

By Mark Silver

March 17, 2021

Being a Toronto sports fan hasn’t been easy for many generations of Torontonians. Of course, the Raptors NBA title was kind of a reset for the city, and there were a couple of crazy Blue Jays runs a few years back, but those were more so the Toronto sports awakening for millennials. For Gen X, in the stretch from 1967 to 1991, hope was just a dangerous word.

The most seminal moments were those back-to-back Blue Jays titles and the anger of the 1993 Leafs’ playoff run. Enter Jonah Sigel, a Gen-Xer who decided to carry the weight of his generation and city on his back. For more than a decade Jonah has faithfully represented Toronto sports fans with his Toronto Sports Media blog, Twitter account @yyzsportsmedia and now his podcast. While he’s not in the media business for his day job as a technology executive, he’s made it his passion to promote transparency in the goings’ on, both with the Toronto sports teams and media outlets, as we discussed in-depth on this episode.

I want to believe.

He drove SN execs crazy because he had inside scoops inside Rogers and would announce things before they did.

[polo007]

Read on Twitter

All Eyes on Mark Shapiro - Blair and Barker

Jeff Blair and Kevin Barker react to Ross Atkins’ media availability from this past weekend and wonder if there is a scenario where Atkins and John Schneider can continue to work together. The guys outline how there were whispers of dissatisfaction throughout the season talking to some of the players, and wonder what President Mark Shapiro will say and do on Thursday when he is scheduled to speak with the media. MLB Network’s Jon Morosi shares a national perspective on the Blue Jays predicament, before looking at the remaining postseason series, notably Houston-Minnesota and Texas-Baltimore which continue tonight (31:12).

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

[hyper316]

Read on Twitter

All Eyes on Mark Shapiro - Blair and Barker

Jeff Blair and Kevin Barker react to Ross Atkins’ media availability from this past weekend and wonder if there is a scenario where Atkins and John Schneider can continue to work together. The guys outline how there were whispers of dissatisfaction throughout the season talking to some of the players, and wonder what President Mark Shapiro will say and do on Thursday when he is scheduled to speak with the media. MLB Network’s Jon Morosi shares a national perspective on the Blue Jays predicament, before looking at the remaining postseason series, notably Houston-Minnesota and Texas-Baltimore which continue tonight (31:12).

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Get rid of Atkins and Schneider. Pick a new GM, and let new GM choose the manager

Showalter is available

[Randle McMurphy]

Read on Twitter

All Eyes on Mark Shapiro - Blair and Barker

Jeff Blair and Kevin Barker react to Ross Atkins’ media availability from this past weekend and wonder if there is a scenario where Atkins and John Schneider can continue to work together. The guys outline how there were whispers of dissatisfaction throughout the season talking to some of the players, and wonder what President Mark Shapiro will say and do on Thursday when he is scheduled to speak with the media. MLB Network’s Jon Morosi shares a national perspective on the Blue Jays predicament, before looking at the remaining postseason series, notably Houston-Minnesota and Texas-Baltimore which continue tonight (31:12).

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Get rid of Atkins and Schneider. Pick a new GM, and let new GM choose the manager

Showalter is available

The guy who basically singlehandedly blew the 2016 WC game to the Jays?

[C Court]

Blair and Barker with another interesting podcast for sure.

The big picture concern that I got from their comments was the apparent lack of communication between the GM and the manager and the players. Apparently lots of whispers from the players who were dissatisfied with Atkins and the on field managers - which was implied went beyond Schneider. Blair has been covering MLB since 1989 and he said he has never seen a team with this much behind the scenes player whispering and players/management not being on the same page - something that went on all season.

Barker said it best - it’s a mess. When free agents are looking at offers, will they want to go to Toronto where the GM, manager and players don’t seem to be working in unison?

Shapiro’s presser on Thursday will be interesting.

Read on Twitter