JR

[JRmakes_it_rain]

So in the playoffs JR is gonna be the answer???

http://youtube.com/watch?v=D26-h9cQlpE

JR playing smart and within himself, shooting 3's like he can, and giving effort on D.......would make a big difference, coupled with K-Mart being back, and hopefully healthy. We need a bigger, and more athletic backcourt then AC and Chucky, to actually make it past the first round. Oh and as long as AI doesn't dribble the shot clock down to 3 and jack up crazy fade aways like last year.....we might actually make it somewhere, these are all big if's. Oh yeah and if George Karl realizes his one true talent is hot dog eating contests, and retires before the playoffs. Now if the stars align, and about 25 other things happen, we've got a chance.

[Powder Blue]

JR is still immature and makes stupid mistakes. He has been trying too hard lately to be a play maker....driving to the lane out of control with no plan and throwing the ball away for example. But I think thats a result of Karl pushing him to be more than a gunner.

Karl, for better or worse (well, worse, theres no question about that) prefers to play guys that play smarter and in more control.....like atkins. Atkins takes smart shots, he just misses most of them. Atkins doesnt toss the ball away (but doesnt create either). And he tries on defense, hes just horrid at it. Karl would prefer that over JR's dumb decision making and lack of effort.

yunggunz nailed it. Oh and I see a lot of people blaming GK for JR's disappearance but isn't JR at fault too? Kenyon was in a much bigger dog house than JR was two years ago but he made it out just fine because he gives 110% (and has a huge contract). JR Smith is just another Rodney White (you'll know who i'm talking about if you've been a nugs fan for awhile)

[sportsmikegm23]

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yunggunz nailed it. Oh and I see a lot of people blaming GK for JR's disappearance but isn't JR at fault too? Kenyon was in a much bigger dog house than JR was two years ago but he made it out just fine because he gives 110% (and has a huge contract). JR Smith is just another Rodney White (you'll know who i'm talking about if you've been a nugs fan for awhile)

I disagree that JR is just another Rodney White... I think JR could be a solid to very solid player with time of greatness, but that is part of his problem...he's doesn't use his head, he doesn't put in extra work, he doesn't study...

I think Karl need to try to get something out of JR and work with him, encourage him, but for some reason he and JR just don't see eye to eye and since he is not making big dollars, he will sit on the bench.

It's a terrible waste because I think he could have 15 to 20 minutes a night and be a productive bench player... but GK won't let that happen now and JR won't do what is necessary to try to make that work. While I am not a huge GK fan... this situation isn't totally Karl's fault. Although, I am going to tear my hair out if I see brick Atkins clang another 3 pointer off the front of the iron...he is still not healthy...and he's not doing anyone any good out there right now..

[Varsity878]

I think most people realize both parties are at fault. However what JR needs to realize is he isn't the one who is controlling the situation. The front office isn't going to pressure Karl to play him as long as the Nuggets are winning and Karl isn't going to suddenly wake up one day and give him 20+ mins. So the onus is on JR to try to put in the extra work and work his way out of Karl's doghouse.

With that said, I doubt JR's agent Arn Tellem allows his client's value continue to plummet without saying a word. I actually think its only a matter of time before you get some type of "JR loves the Nuggets however, it may be in the interest of both parties to go separate directions" statement. And with him being relatively cheap, it won't be hard for the Nuggets to move JR. So hopefully if he is moved, the Nuggets can get some fair compensation for him possibly a protected first rounder.

[T-33]

I sure hope he's not another Rodney White, look what George did first thing he got to the Nuggets, then he moved to Voshon, tried with Kmart and now looking like JR might be the next target George tries to rid off. I wouldnt be surprised one bit if Hunter and JR soon follow with trade requests...Our FO is making moves to make us deeper but George isnt playing them...Hopefully this minor problem could lead to some changes.

In George's defense Rodney was pretty much gonna be gone soon anyway, cuz he was really just one dimensional with a streaky shot, however i thought he was a really good dunker for his size and a favorite of mine.

Voshon was overweight and really didnt look like he was going to change that.

Kmart lashed out on George so he had to be disciplined...I guess

JR doesnt put in the effort before/after practice.

I guess we can also put DJ on Karl's run out list, that might have been more of an FO decision though.

George has way too much conflicts with his players to be a coach, if its not his way it doesnt matter how talented you are it seems, he'll still bench you.

[elbowthrower]

I have questions for everyone crying about how bad a guy George Karl is for not playing JR:

Do you have any evidence that he's been working hard and deserving of more minutes? Have you been watching practices?

[UNLVNugsFan]

Both GK and JR are to blame in this situation. GK is to blame for not giving the guy a proper chance, and JR is to blame for wasting the small chances he has gotten (as well as acting like a complete douchebag off the court). The reality of the situation however is that as long as we are winning at a decent %, Karl's focus really should be on our 1-9 guys (Melo/AI/Camby/KMart/Carter/Nene/Najera/Atkins/Kleiza), and not at the end of the bench.

JR is one hell of a talent, but I really do not think at this point in time that he will get ample opportunities to prove himself, or even if he deserves those opportunities.

I would definetely entertain a trade.

[Varsity878]

I have questions for everyone crying about how bad a guy George Karl is for not playing JR:

Do you have any evidence that he's been working hard and deserving of more minutes? Have you been watching practices?

Here lies the issue in my opinion...

When JR actually plays well and does the things that Karl asks him to do, the leash Karl keeps him under doesn't get any longer. So its no positive reinforcement. However as soon as JR messes up, he is sent directly to the bench and has to wait until Karl is ready to give him another shot to prove himself. Thats why I think people criticize Karl's handling of the situation. If you are going to punish JR for doing something he shouldn't, at the very least reward him when he does the things he is asked to do. Thats not to absolve JR from his responsibility in this. But in my opinion, JR can become a solid contributor for the Nuggets if he was given the opportunity. But when you have to constantly watch over your shoulder everytime you play in fear of getting pulled, I think its hard for any player to mature and evolve. Particularly one who is only 22 years old.

[Nutty Nats Fan]

The reality of the situation however is that as long as we are winning at a decent %, Karl's focus really should be on our 1-9 guys (Melo/AI/Camby/KMart/Carter/Nene/Najera/Atkins/Kleiza), and not at the end of the bench.

You should not include Chucky in that list. At the moment he just hurts the team. Yak or JR should be getting Chucky's minutes, but Karl is an idiot.

JR was playing well in November. He will make mistakes, he is a young player. All young players make mistakes. Heck, even AI makes stupid mistakes still. Yet the big douche bag is killing JR here by coming down harder on him than anyone else. How is a young player supposed to grow, when he can clearly see the coach being a total a-hole?

[denvers_finest]

You should not include Chucky in that list. At the moment he just hurts the team. Yak or JR should be getting Chucky's minutes, but Karl is an idiot.

Atkins hasn't played great as of yet, but he has a history of being a very good outside shooter, his shot is gonna start falling as soon as he gets his legs back.

The same logic people try to use for JR should hold true for Atkins, how is he gonna get back to game speed if he never gets any minutes. Just like JR, Atkins would be a starter on alot of teams in this league.

JR was playing well in November. He will make mistakes, he is a young player. All young players make mistakes. Heck, even AI makes stupid mistakes still. Yet the big douche bag is killing JR here by coming down harder on him than anyone else. How is a young player supposed to grow, when he can clearly see the coach being a total a-hole?

Way too much blame is being put on Karl for this whole situation. JR could really help his cause by showing up on time to practice, and giving 100% effort when hes there. I don't know how much of a problem that has been this year, but as i recall, that was a major reason he lost his minutes last season.

Also, we are a very deep team. JR would be the 10th guy off the bench. Most teams don't play their 10th, 11th, and 12th guys ever. I don't get why Karl is getting chastized for leaving these guys on the bench where they belong.

I like JR, I think he has a ton of talent, and I hope that he puts it all together, but its really getting old making excuses for him. He may be young, but he isn't new to this league. He got traded from NO b/c Scott got fed up with him. Skiles didn't even want to bother with him, and Karl gave him more than one chance, and pissed them all away.

JR needs to get his act together and EARN his minutes. Karl's job is to win games, not help a young kid get his practice time in during the game.

[Nutty Nats Fan]

The same logic people try to use for JR should hold true for Atkins, how is he gonna get back to game speed if he never gets any minutes.

Atkins doesn't look healthy out there. One play off the top of my head, he was guarding his man at the end of a quarter, was playing off him, looked to me like he was worried he couldn't cover his man if he drived (groin sore?), so his man hit the shot right over him. Unless that's what he brings on D.. then at least JR was trying on D.

JR could really help his cause by showing up on time to practice, and giving 100% effort when hes there. I don't know how much of a problem that has been this year, but as i recall, that was a major reason he lost his minutes last season.

If he was coming late and doing what he did last year, I would agree with you. But someone front the FO said he was coming to practice, showing up 10 minutes early. He wasn't putting in all the extra practice GK wants, but is that a reason to completely bench someone, while keeping someone else out there who can't play right now? No.

JR looked like he was trying on D, was trying to pass more, was hitting his shots, but since he didn't put in extra work, Karl benches him? Really doesn't make sense. And no, not saying to start him, but at least keep giving him consistent minutes, maybe reduced at most.

And maybe at this point in his career JR may still be too mistake prone to have in at the end of games, but that doesn't mean you can't bring him in to help spark the offense when it is playing like crap and can't score. That can help win games. Getting more game experience, could also help him reduce the mistakes he makes, but right now he knows when he is in a game, he has to do everything perfectly and play great or GK will glue him to the bench again. Bit too much pressure don't you think? Playing tense never helps.

[elbowthrower]

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Here lies the issue in my opinion...

When JR actually plays well and does the things that Karl asks him to do, the leash Karl keeps him under doesn't get any longer. So its no positive reinforcement. However as soon as JR messes up, he is sent directly to the bench and has to wait until Karl is ready to give him another shot to prove himself. Thats why I think people criticize Karl's handling of the situation. If you are going to punish JR for doing something he shouldn't, at the very least reward him when he does the things he is asked to do. Thats not to absolve JR from his responsibility in this. But in my opinion, JR can become a solid contributor for the Nuggets if he was given the opportunity. But when you have to constantly watch over your shoulder everytime you play in fear of getting pulled, I think its hard for any player to mature and evolve. Particularly one who is only 22 years old.

That was a nice attempt but you don't answer my question and at the same time illustrate exactly what I was getting at.

Nobody here knows what goes on in practice or off camera that is leading Karl to sit JR. It's all a bunch of conjecture fueled by the emotional desire to rail on someone when the Nugs aren't playing well. And the target is usually Karl for not playing some kid who people think is going to be the savior of the team.

It's really amazing what Karl gets blamed for on this board. He's not perfect (no coach is) but if the team is playing awful defense, he gets blamed. So he adjusts and the team is now #2 in defense, and gets blamed for having a middle-of-the-pack offense. JR goes 1 for 5 and can't get under a screen? Karl's fault for benching him and wrecking his confidence. Bobby Jones can't hit the side of a barn? Karl should play him anyway for defense even though we already have the #2 defense.

It never stops.

[JRmakes_it_rain]

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That was a nice attempt but you don't answer my question and at the same time illustrate exactly what I was getting at.

Nobody here knows what goes on in practice or off camera that is leading Karl to sit JR. It's all a bunch of conjecture fueled by the emotional desire to rail on someone when the Nugs aren't playing well. And the target is usually Karl for not playing some kid who people think is going to be the savior of the team.

It's really amazing what Karl gets blamed for on this board. He's not perfect (no coach is) but if the team is playing awful defense, he gets blamed. So he adjusts and the team is now #2 in defense, and gets blamed for having a middle-of-the-pack offense. JR goes 1 for 5 and can't get under a screen? Karl's fault for benching him and wrecking his confidence. Bobby Jones can't hit the side of a barn? Karl should play him anyway for defense even though we already have the #2 defense.

It never stops.

well we don't know what JR does at practice....good or bad. thats why its fat boys job to let us know why he's not playing somebody. And as far as bobby jones not hitting the broad side of a barn....he isn't in there to shoot, he's there for hustle and d, so you've proved nothing with that comment. and the JR 1 for 5? not sure what game you're talking about, but he makes the same mistakes that half the team makes on those screens. JR was more productive tonight in his 4 minutes of garbage time, then kuba or carter have been. we do pay these guys salaries, or atleast a part of em, and season ticket holders, and fans alike have a right to know whats going on with this situation. fat boy picks a player, and rides them until he has a reason not to play them, he's got a history of doing it, hell he even tried to ride ray allen.

[elbowthrower]

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well we don't know what JR does at practice....good or bad. thats why its fat boys job to let us know why he's not playing somebody. And as far as bobby jones not hitting the broad side of a barn....he isn't in there to shoot, he's there for hustle and d, so you've proved nothing with that comment. and the JR 1 for 5? not sure what game you're talking about, but he makes the same mistakes that half the team makes on those screens. JR was more productive tonight in his 4 minutes of garbage time, then kuba or carter have been. we do pay these guys salaries, or atleast a part of em, and season ticket holders, and fans alike have a right to know whats going on with this situation. fat boy picks a player, and rides them until he has a reason not to play them, he's got a history of doing it, hell he even tried to ride ray allen.

Please don't tell me you're one of the crowd who gets mad when Karl "bashes" JR in the media?

But again, you never know what has been going on in practice with Yak either. Or Carter- and Carter is putting up good numbers, doing what he is supposed to be doing in games.

[JRmakes_it_rain]

carter shoots 1 for something and dishes out assists.....great, put me out there with melo and AI, and watch my assists go up. See steve blake for further explanation. And don't tell me that your one of those guys that thinks its classy for coach fat boy to call anybody out in the paper, for doing things that other guys on the team have done? I really hope you're not one of those guys.

[Varsity878]

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That was a nice attempt but you don't answer my question and at the same time illustrate exactly what I was getting at.

Nobody here knows what goes on in practice or off camera that is leading Karl to sit JR. It's all a bunch of conjecture fueled by the emotional desire to rail on someone when the Nugs aren't playing well. And the target is usually Karl for not playing some kid who people think is going to be the savior of the team.

It's really amazing what Karl gets blamed for on this board. He's not perfect (no coach is) but if the team is playing awful defense, he gets blamed. So he adjusts and the team is now #2 in defense, and gets blamed for having a middle-of-the-pack offense. JR goes 1 for 5 and can't get under a screen? Karl's fault for benching him and wrecking his confidence. Bobby Jones can't hit the side of a barn? Karl should play him anyway for defense even though we already have the #2 defense.

It never stops.

So let me get this straight...

Karl gets credit for motivating the players to play better defense. But Karl can't be responsible for wrecking a player's confidence. Even though its no evidence that Karl is responsible for either one. Because by your logic, no really knows what Karl does, says or coaches in practice. However you were able to attribute our better team defense and give Karl credit for it. But we can't do the same and suggest Karl's benching of Smith could play in a factor in his confidence and inconsistent play. Interesting. He gets credit for the positives he brings but, he isn't responsible for some of the teams problems.

And Im not a George Karl basher. Honestly, this is the first time I've spoken out against Karl about a player or a coaching decision. However in my opinion its biased to ignore the fact he has a history of treating players the same way he is treating JR. Thats not to absolve JR from his role because in the end, I believe if JR played the way he was asked he would receive more time. But as a coach I believe the sword has to cut both ways. Its a give and take. And from a FANS PERSPECTIVE (since we don't see what goes on in practice and off camera), its looking like a situation thats a stalemate. As a fan I see a player who has made some mistakes and should be penalized for those. And I also see a player who isn't getting an opportunity to correct those mistakes. Honestly I don't think anyone wants to watch Smith get in the game and continue to make the same mistakes over and over again just because he is talented. But I do believe most people feel he can contribute to this team if he given a chance to show it. In my opinion, I don't think seeing a player come from a full time starter to a DNP-CD games at a time is all about the player not working hard. It suggests its more to that story. It suggests its personal. And unless you are an insider or know more to it, your argument is speculation just as much as mine.

[ChrisTheFuturePaul]

Byron Scott (JR's old coach) put it best: NBA stands for "No Babies Allowed" ... Thanks for getting us Tyson Chandler, JR, enjoy warming the bench.

He simply an athletic street baller who wont fit into a team system.

[elbowthrower]

carter shoots 1 for something and dishes out assists.....great, put me out there with melo and AI, and watch my assists go up. See steve blake for further explanation. And don't tell me that your one of those guys that thinks its classy for coach fat boy to call anybody out in the paper, for doing things that other guys on the team have done? I really hope you're not one of those guys.

Hey you're the one who just said that Karl should tell the fans why he's not playing JR.

So what do you want? Karl to go to the media or not? And remember that as soon as he mentions a player to the media he'll get accused of calling him out.

[elbowthrower]

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So let me get this straight...

Karl gets credit for motivating the players to play better defense. But Karl can't be responsible for wrecking a player's confidence. Even though its no evidence that Karl is responsible for either one. Because by your logic, no really knows what Karl does, says or coaches in practice. However you were able to attribute our better team defense and give Karl credit for it. But we can't do the same and suggest Karl's benching of Smith could play in a factor in his confidence and inconsistent play. Interesting. He gets credit for the positives he brings but, he isn't responsible for some of the teams problems.

...snip...

And unless you are an insider or know more to it, your argument is speculation just as much as mine.

Actually I read in a few places- including here- that defense was the focus of this year's training camp.

Besides, teams don't just magically decide to start playing better defense.

You're right though that benching JR could hurt his confidence. Know what? I don't care. If he's playing like a bonehead then he should be benched because I want the team to win games. This is the pros. You don't keep players in the game because you are afraid of hurting their feelings.

I guess I'm just a little more willing to trust the coach's decisions in these matters since, like I said, none of us is there on a daily basis watching every thing that happens.

It's also very typical of fans to blame the coach any time anything goes slightly awry, especially in basketball. Check out every game thread on RealGM where the board's team lost the game. The only exceptions might be S.A., the Lakers, and Boston.

[The Rebel]

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Actually I read in a few places- including here- that defense was the focus of this year's training camp.

Besides, teams don't just magically decide to start playing better defense.

You're right though that benching JR could hurt his confidence. Know what? I don't care. If he's playing like a bonehead then he should be benched because I want the team to win games. This is the pros. You don't keep players in the game because you are afraid of hurting their feelings.

I guess I'm just a little more willing to trust the coach's decisions in these matters since, like I said, none of us is there on a daily basis watching every thing that happens.

It's also very typical of fans to blame the coach any time anything goes slightly awry, especially in basketball. Check out every game thread on RealGM where the board's team lost the game. The only exceptions might be S.A., the Lakers, and Boston.

I would trust the coach a heck of a lot more if he had developed any young players outside of Melo who got more help from GRG while Karl was not given a choice on developing him.