2023 Offseason

[DaFan334]

Well, things definitely got a bit more interesting with new homes for Dame, Nirk, Ayton and Holiday (probably not Portland).

The Bucks and Nugs are probably easy favorites to start the year with the Suns right behind them. The Bucks got better on offense, but definitely lost one of the better defenders in the league. It will be interesting to see how Giannas and Dame mesh. I also think losing Allen actually does hurt their bench a bit.

Nurk to the Suns definitely increases the Nurk vs Jok rivalry and Nurk clearly knows it with this post:

[tweet]https://x.com/bosnianbeast27/status/1707126994050392113?s=20[/tweet]

I don't think it helps the Suns vs Jokic, but there might be some more intensity than what Ayton brought to the matchup last year. Either way, Joker has dominated both in their more recent matchups. Allen and Little do help the Suns lack of depth a bit. This rivalry might reach new heights this year.

[TunaFish]

Well, things definitely got a bit more interesting with new homes for Dame, Nirk, Ayton and Holiday (probably not Portland).

The Bucks and Nugs are probably easy favorites to start the year with the Suns right behind them. The Bucks got better on offense, but definitely lost one of the better defenders in the league. It will be interesting to see how Giannas and Dame mesh. I also think losing Allen actually does hurt their bench a bit.

Nurk to the Suns definitely increases the Nurk vs Jok rivalry and Nurk clearly knows it with this post:

Read on Twitter

I don't think it helps the Suns vs Jokic, but there might be some more intensity than what Ayton brought to the matchup last year. Either way, Joker has dominated both in their more recent matchups. Allen and Little do help the Suns lack of depth a bit. This rivalry might reach new heights this year.

Portland took a dump. At least Dame moved to the Eastern Conference.

[THE J0KER]

Normally I praise when our conference arch-enemy is weaker but this trade is one of the worst things that happened to the Nuggets in 2023 because two out of our top-3 2024 title contenders are being improved, especially Bucks. If Jrue ends in Boston (or LA) disaster will be complete.

By the way, the Heat signed a two-way contract with RJ Hampton. Maybe we should have done it? He knows our organization and we used the hype around him well to steal Aaron Gordon in that trade.

[NuggetsWY]

I may be way off on this, but I think Milwaukee is the only team that benefited from this trade. Although I'll add a caveat on Phoenix.

Milwaukee: I am very happy for Malik Beasley. It appears he'll be starting next to Lillard in the backcourt and I think he's proved he is worthy of starting on a contender. With a frontcourt of Middleton, Antetokounmpo, & Brook Lopez; they have an impressive starting lineup.

Having a bench with Crowder & Portis & Robin Lopez & Thanasis Antetokounmpo as their bigs is rather strong, to say the least. Connaughton is the only SF/SG on the bench that impresses me and I'm not sure who else will come off the bench at guard or SF.

Portland receiving Bucks pick plus swap rights doesn't impress me as good for Portland. Their picks should be low, so Portland is just getting one late 1st round pick and will be unlikely to benefit for the swaps.

Rumor says Holiday will be released; if that happens, they traded Lillard for a late-1st and middle-22nd round pick that Phoenix had in the G-League.

It seems that it was basically Lillard for Ayton. But that doesn't make it a bust, just a swap. Ayton is a legitimate NBA center who averaged 18 ppg on 60% last year. He's a 76% FT shooter and doesn't even attempt 3pt shots -- meaning he knows what he's there for. He averages about 10 rpg with almost 2 apg last year. AND think about this, he's only 25, so he's just now reaching his prime.

Phoenix received:
Keon Johnson - a young, relatively inexperienced PG.
Nassir Little - a decent role player at SF/SG who has averaged 50 games played with 18 mpg - with decent shooting.
Grayson Allen - a decent starter who shoots 43-40-90.
Jusuf Nurkic - a legitimate NBA center in the old school fashion.

This trade seems to be about Ayton for Nurkic & Allen and on paper that looks like Phoenix came out ahead.
But here's my caveat: Nurkic's games played since leaving Denver:

2017-2018 - 79
2018-2019 - 72
2019-2020 - 8
2020-2021 - 37
2021-2022 - 56
2022-2023 - 52

If he's not playing come playoff time, this trade hurt Phoenix IMO.

[TunaFish]

I am going to have to disagree with the idea that Holiday is just a throw-in or will be released. Portland wanted him to trade. That and the picks were key pieces.

[NuggetsWY]

I am going to have to disagree with the idea that Holiday is just a throw-in or will be released. Portland wanted him to trade. That and the picks were key pieces.

No doubt they want to trade him; but is there a contender that can absorb his salary?
Is there a non-contender that wants to absorb his salary?

$35 million per year is a lot for anybody and virtually every team is over or close to the CAP.

[Wigginstime]

I am going to have to disagree with the idea that Holiday is just a throw-in or will be released. Portland wanted him to trade. That and the picks were key pieces.

No doubt they want to trade him; but is there a contender that can absorb his salary?
Is there a non-contender that wants to absorb his salary?

$35 million per year is a lot for anybody and virtually every team is over or close to the CAP.

I think there are a lot of contenders who are willing to absorb his salary. For example, I could see

the Lakers offering come combination of Russell, Vincent, & RUI + 2029 1st to improve their guard defense
Philly trying to acquire him well flipping Harden to a 3rd team
Dallas trying to improve their defense if the Kyrie/Luka experiment fails
Miami still desperately needs another guard

[CharityStripe34]

Well, things definitely got a bit more interesting with new homes for Dame, Nirk, Ayton and Holiday (probably not Portland).

The Bucks and Nugs are probably easy favorites to start the year with the Suns right behind them. The Bucks got better on offense, but definitely lost one of the better defenders in the league. It will be interesting to see how Giannas and Dame mesh. I also think losing Allen actually does hurt their bench a bit.

The Bucks will be looking to see if their young wings will emerge, and my guess is that they're going to be in the buyout market for some decent 3&D wings to help out with perimeter defense. Allen was a solid bench piece for the regular season, but his play during the post-season cratered massively, as he was one of the reasons why they lost against Boston last year. It didn't help he was in an outsized role with Middleton's absence, but he was abused regularly on defense (even if he does put in effort).

I'm thinking this may be a rejuvenated Middleton season, given how much gravity Gianni and Dame will attract. And our GM probably hired Stotts this summer with the Dame trade proposal in mind, which should help the transition and chemistry. Time will tell.

A Bucks/Nuggets Finals series would be epic television. Let's hope health prevails.

[skywalker33]

While I can see a lot of talent changes, seems the Nuggets are counting on continuity and chemistry....I like that philosophy for a Championship caliber team.

[TunaFish]

I am going to have to disagree with the idea that Holiday is just a throw-in or will be released. Portland wanted him to trade. That and the picks were key pieces.

No doubt they want to trade him; but is there a contender that can absorb his salary?
Is there a non-contender that wants to absorb his salary?

$35 million per year is a lot for anybody and virtually every team is over or close to the CAP.

The Celtics.

[TunaFish]

One observation about this offseason that should not be missed is that the Nuggets are 4.5 million under the punitive 2nd tax apron.

Contrast that with Golden State, Clippers and Suns that are significantly over their 2nd apron.

[Manolito]

One observation about this offseason that should not be missed is that the Nuggets are 4.5 million under the punitive 2nd tax apron.

Contrast that with Golden State, Clippers and Suns that are significantly over their 2nd apron.

That brings nothing this season. Those teams simply have no access to 5M TP-MLE, but they can still use TPEs and first round picks for trades.

IN 24/25 season penalties are much stronger, but for this season there is effect except losing TP-MLE

[TunaFish]

One observation about this offseason that should not be missed is that the Nuggets are 4.5 million under the punitive 2nd tax apron.

Contrast that with Golden State, Clippers and Suns that are significantly over their 2nd apron.

That brings nothing this season. Those teams simply have no access to 5M TP-MLE, but they can still use TPEs and first round picks for trades.

IN 24/25 season penalties are much stronger, but for this season there is effect except losing TP-MLE

Not nothing: it starts the clock on moving 1st round picks to the end of the round if you are above the apron 3 out of 5 years. Also, The NBA's most expensive teams rely on minimum contracts to fill out the back of their rosters, but as most minimum contracts last for only one year, those teams only have Non-Birds on that player in free agency the following offseason. That means that if they want to keep them without using a cap exception, they can only offer a 20% raise on their prior, minimum salary. Players those teams want to keep often outperform those figures, especially since veterans typically use minimum deals on good teams as opportunities to showcase themselves for future deals.

The workaround for these teams used to be the taxpayer mid-level exception. It allowed them to retain their minimum-salary successes by giving them a reasonable raise. However, without the taxpayer mid-level exception at their disposal, these teams are probably going to lose their best minimum-salary players after only a single year.

[skywalker33]

Saw the Nuggs picked up Braun's 2024 option, not unexpected but good move

[TunaFish]

Saw the Nuggs picked up Braun's 2024 option, not unexpected but good move

Same for Peyton Watson, option also picked up. Not bad drafting by the Nuggets if they make it this far.

[skywalker33]

Gotta say Justin Holiday is looking like an end-of-the-bench mistake IMO

[Richard Miller]

Too early to say... Bruce Brown early last season seemed nothing special

[skywalker33]

Too early to say... Bruce Brown early last season seemed nothing special

MAybe both he and the Pacers will realize WHO made his 2022 season special. Will he become a FA again next year ??

[skywalker33]

Zeke Nnaji signs a 3+1 extension for $32M, got some provin' to do, but this is the season. Definitely seems like a bit of a LOYALTY signing though.

[THE J0KER]

Zeke Nnaji signs a 3+1 extension for $32M, got some provin' to do, but this is the season. Definitely seems like a bit of a LOYALTY signing though.

I'm shocked by this deal. Murray will re-sign in 2025 so we will lose the same summer Aaron Gordon because of this strange Zeke deal. I can't see what kind of loyalty or obligations the team has to the player who played 39 minutes overall in playoffs in the past 3 seasons whereas the Nuggets played 35 postseason games. Bruce Brown comes to Denver with 14-5-3 numbers from the previous playoff and instead of giving him a 33M 2+1 kind of contract we underpaid him with a 13M 1+1 deal and lost immediately after the very first season.