I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired.

[DBC10]

In the 2019 season, Luke Kennard played in only 28 games before the knee pain he said started in the off season forced the Pistons to shut him down. Tendinitis in both knees and the possibility he would continue to be limited were big factors in moving Kennard. Most thought it was a prudent move at the time given his health.

The Clippers took a risk giving him that contract, but he ended up pretty healthy for the next couple seasons. That risk made sense for a contender, not for the rebuilding Pistons.

This season, Kennard has only been available for 31 games, with knee issues being the main problem.

Yep. He has knee tendinitis which was reported at the time when he was with us. There's no universe I want a guy that has that injury bug on him considering how chronic that condition is

We traded him off at the right time, regardless of timing. We needed to get off of his unavailability and the risk was worth it even if he somehow blossomed elsewhere for a bit

[Sort]

There are many reasons Weaver should have already been fired, but getting out of a player with bad knees is not one of them. Luke Kennard with knees would be a fine NBA player and it shows up at times.

I admit I will be shocked if Weaver isn't fired. His past four years have been a textbook study of how not to be a GM. Pistons are arguably the worst team in the history of the NBA this year. How poorly of a job does one have to do?

I'm over the regular season and looking forward to the playoffs when the games matter, the Pistons are a forgotten memory, and competition goes way up.

[A_dub06]

Weaver absolutely needs to be fired, it’s long overdue.

What scares me though is that because Gores is an idiot and overrode Weaver for the coaching hire and signed him to a long expensive deal, any incoming GM knows that Monty is staying regardless of whether they want him or not which could reduce the pool of potential GM’s. We need someone that thinks outside the box, is good at not only negotiating deals with other teams but also can navigate the cap and get players on good team deals instead of just throwing them money the way Weaver has with so many (best example being Bagley)

[flow]

Let's take a look at two other notable tear-down rebuilds.


Philadelphia 76ers

The 2012-13 season ends with a 34-48 record and no playoffs. Doug Collins is fired. Sam Hinkie is hired. ' The process' begins.

Year 1 (2013-14 season): 19-63 record
Year 2 (2014-15 season): 18-64 record
Year 3 (2015-16 season): 10-72 record
Year 4 (2016-17 season): 28-54 record
Year 5 (2017-18 season): 52-30 record


OKC Thunder

The 2019-20 season ends with a 44-28 record (covid-shortened) and first round playoff exit. Billy Donovan is fired and the tear-down begins....

Year 1 (2020-21 season): 22-50 record
Year 2 (2021-22 season): 24-58 record
Year 3 (2022-23 season): 40-42 record
Year 4 (2023-24 season): 50 wins so far



Detroit Pistons

The 2018-19 season ends with a 41-41 record and first round playoff sweep. The tear-down somewhat starts the following season, 2019-20, which ends with a 20-41 covid-shortened record. Troy Weaver is then hired and the tear-down continues in earnest...

Year 1 (2020-21 season): 20-52 record
Year 2 (2021-22 season): 23-59 record
Year 3 (2022-23 season): 17-65 record
Year 4 (2023-24 season): 12 wins so far

.

[Cowology]

Let's take a look at two other notable tear-down rebuilds.


Philadelphia 76ers

The 2012-13 season ends with a 34-48 record and no playoffs. Doug Collins is fired. Sam Hinkie is hired. ' The process' begins.

Year 1 (2013-14 season): 19-63 record
Year 2 (2014-15 season): 18-64 record
Year 3 (2015-16 season): 10-72 record
Year 4 (2016-17 season): 28-54 record
Year 5 (2017-18 season): 52-30 record


OKC Thunder

The 2019-20 season ends with a 44-28 record (covid-shortened) and first round playoff exit. Billy Donovan is fired and the tear-down begins....

Year 1 (2020-21 season): 22-50 record
Year 2 (2021-22 season): 24-58 record
Year 3 (2022-23 season): 40-42 record
Year 4 (2023-24 season): 50 wins so far



Detroit Pistons

The 2018-19 season ends with a 41-41 record and first round playoff sweep. The tear-down somewhat starts the following season, 2019-20, which ends with a 20-41 covid-shortened record. Troy Weaver is then hired and the tear-down continues in earnest...

Year 1 (2020-21 season): 20-52 record
Year 2 (2021-22 season): 23-59 record
Year 3 (2022-23 season): 17-65 record
Year 4 (2023-24 season): 12 wins so far

.

So much to deconstruct there. The PG13 trade yielded a massive haul. Lottery "luck" has been a lil bonkers and not every lottery produces an MVP caliber player. But yeah, being here in year 4 doesn't feel good. It's time to either take a big step forward, or heads need to roll.

[theBigLip]

Let's take a look at two other notable tear-down rebuilds.


Philadelphia 76ers

The 2012-13 season ends with a 34-48 record and no playoffs. Doug Collins is fired. Sam Hinkie is hired. ' The process' begins.

Year 1 (2013-14 season): 19-63 record
Year 2 (2014-15 season): 18-64 record
Year 3 (2015-16 season): 10-72 record
Year 4 (2016-17 season): 28-54 record
Year 5 (2017-18 season): 52-30 record


OKC Thunder

The 2019-20 season ends with a 44-28 record (covid-shortened) and first round playoff exit. Billy Donovan is fired and the tear-down begins....

Year 1 (2020-21 season): 22-50 record
Year 2 (2021-22 season): 24-58 record
Year 3 (2022-23 season): 40-42 record
Year 4 (2023-24 season): 50 wins so far



Detroit Pistons

The 2018-19 season ends with a 41-41 record and first round playoff sweep. The tear-down somewhat starts the following season, 2019-20, which ends with a 20-41 covid-shortened record. Troy Weaver is then hired and the tear-down continues in earnest...

Year 1 (2020-21 season): 20-52 record
Year 2 (2021-22 season): 23-59 record
Year 3 (2022-23 season): 17-65 record
Year 4 (2023-24 season): 12 wins so far

.

So much to deconstruct there. The PG13 trade yielded a massive haul. Lottery "luck" has been a lil bonkers and not every lottery produces an MVP caliber player. But yeah, being here in year 4 doesn't feel good. It's time to either take a big step forward, or heads need to roll.

Good post Flow. And agree w you Cow on the PG13 impact - that basically gave OKC a year head start compared to our rebuild. And lottery luck? Ugh. We could have Wemby, Chet, Paolo, etc. But we got to play the cards we were dealt.

Weaver seemed aggressive but smart at the trade deadline - out w Bagley, Livers, Hayes, and our oft-injured vets (BB, Burks, Morris, Harris) and got Fontecchio and Grimes. I expect him to be even more aggressive this summer w the war chest of cap space. And even though I’ve defended Weaver for the most part, it’s only that he got us to this point - young core on rookie deals, more cap space than anyone else in the league, the (supposedly) best coach that was available. Now is the time to make the jump. And if not, totally agree that heads should roll.

[jars]

I just went to look over Troy Weaver's transaction record as the GM of the pistons because I feel like he has made some good draft picks (Bey at 19, Stewart at 16, Duren at 14 are all value and Cade, Ivey and Ausar were all the consensus picks by the experts) and thought maybe I was being too harsh, but it has totally changed my mind and he needed to go on the 21st of July 2020.

In his first year he:
- made mostly a bunch of salary dumping moves for other teams that netted us minimal/insignificant future assets.
- made the Kennard for Saddiq Bey draft pick trade
- made the Christian Wood for Isaiah Stewart draft pick trade
- gave away DRose for next to nothing
- waived and stretched the Blake contract.
- signed Jerami Grant.
- drafted Killian Hayes
Everything else was Meh.

In his second year he:
- drafted Cade which was the safe pick
- signed Kelly Olynyk
- traded Lyles, Josh Jackson and 2nds for Bagley (which seemed like a reasonable gamble on an oft-injured 2nd overall pick)
Everything else was Meh.

In his third year he:
- drafted Ivey which was the safe pick (and who I wanted).
- traded Jerami Grant for a first and two seconds.
- traded the first from the Grant trade for the Jalen Duren draft pick and the Kemba salary dump.
- signed Marvin Bagley to a stupid contract.
- traded filler contracts and some pick swaps for Alec Burks and Nerlen Noels
- Traded Saben Lee and Kelly Olynyk for Bojan Bogdanovic.
- Bogdanovic signs a good 2 year extension.
- Traded Knox and Bey for James Wiseman (see trade for Bagley)
- Everything else was Meh.

In his fourth year he:
- made Monty Williams the highest paid coach in the league even though he didn't really want to be here.
- drafted Ausar Thompson which was the safe pick.
- traded up to draft Sasser. Seems like it was a reasonable risk.
- traded a second and our max slot capspace for Joe Harris (who was waived within 7 months)
- traded a second for Monte Morris
- traded Bagley and Livers for Muscala and Gallinari (both waived with 2 months)
- waived Killian Hayes because we couldn't find a trade for him.
- traded Monte Morris for Troy Brown Jr. and Shake Milton (Milton waived within 2 months).
- traded Knox for Fontecchio
- traded Bogdanovic and Burks for Fournier, Flynn, Grimes and Arcidiacono (waived Arcidiacono).
Everything else was Meh.


To me, he has made a couple of goodish free agent signings, some good picks in the late lottery/end of the first round. Nearly everything else has been pointless or straight up bad. I was feeling positive 45 minutes ago...

[buzzkilloton]

The Grant signing was a gift because Troy was close to Grant in OKC. I'm actually not sold that trading him was the correct play. First similar to BB we would of gotten more trading him sooner in his Pistons tenure. More importantly he wanted to be here and he is a 20ppg scorer who shoots 40% from 3pter and can defend at a competent level. This is the exact player we could use on the roster now and we would gladly pay over a guy like T.Harris in FA.

Duren is a solid young center. Still paint bound bigs that cant rim protect at a high level arent a premium asset. Their is the possibility he adds more to his game due to the youth and its a slam dunk trade. Its for sure a incomplete right now because depending on how Durens development goes will depend on how this trade looks.

[buzzkilloton]

I just went to look over Troy Weaver's transaction record as the GM of the pistons because I feel like he has made some good draft picks (Bey at 19, Stewart at 16

To me, he has made a couple of goodish free agent signings, some good picks in the late lottery/end of the first round. Nearly everything else has been pointless or straight up bad. I was feeling positive 45 minutes ago...

The Bey and Stewart picks were misses because we could of had players like Maxey who many in that years draft thread wanted or Desmond Band. Stew is a solid player so I'll call him a hit but hes no Maxey. That 2020 covid draft that Troy decided to go hard on and get two extra picks really was a setback overall. So much talent that went by us if we could of just got one of a Haliburton,Maxey, or Bane this entire thing looks different today.

Troy has some hits but any GM that spends years on the job will have some hits. When you look at Troys entire body of work its pretty clear hes a not above replacement level GM. Having him in the FO keeps us from having a GM who could be great at that job. NBA GM is a coveted job that is hard to get that makes big money and has lots of prestige.

Their was a time we had threads comparing our young core with the Rockets,Thunder,and Magic. Many fans thought we were close to those teams in talent back then. Some of those teams started off with more or had better luck but regardless their is no excuse for all 3 of them to be that much further past us today. We have 12 wins and look years away while the Magic have 42, Rockets 37, and Thunder 50 wins.

[jars]

Their was a time we had threads comparing our young core with the Rockets,Thunder,and Magic. Many fans thought we were close to those teams in talent back then. Some of those teams started off with more or had better luck but regardless their is no excuse for all 3 of them to be that much further past us today. We have 12 wins and look years away while the Magic have 42, Rockets 37, and Thunder 50 wins.

I still think our young talent is comparable to the Rockets, maybe to some of the Magic, but the strengths of our talent don't gel well together... which is literally a major part of talent acquistion. BPA is all good, but only if some of them blossom.

Process 76ers are the best example of this, hitting on Embiid and (as an Australian, I hate saying this) young Ben Simmons. But Sam Hinkie had done so well through all their trades that they always had a few bites at the apple. Troy Weaver has done a bit of a Sam Hinkie job, but without any particularly good trades that have netted future assets.

[jars]

The Grant signing was a gift because Troy was close to Grant in OKC. I'm actually not sold that trading him was the correct play. First similar to BB we would of gotten more trading him sooner in his Pistons tenure. More importantly he wanted to be here and he is a 20ppg scorer who shoots 40% from 3pter and can defend at a competent level. This is the exact player we could use on the roster now and we would gladly pay over a guy like T.Harris in FA.

Duren is a solid young center. Still paint bound bigs that cant rim protect at a high level arent a premium asset. Their is the possibility he adds more to his game due to the youth and its a slam dunk trade. Its for sure a incomplete right now because depending on how Durens development goes will depend on how this trade looks.

Totally agree that Grant should have gone 6-12 months earlier for a better package. However, the chance on Duren seemed reasonable with the stage we were at and I like how he looks on the court. Defense always takes longer to come on for young guys. I have faith that he could become an at rim defender. The problem is I'm not sure he will ever be much of a 3pt threat which drastically reduces what he is worth in the current NBA. The hope then is that he become a Rudy Gobert level defender and that gives him a very narrow lane of success.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

I just went to look over Troy Weaver's transaction record as the GM of the pistons because I feel like he has made some good draft picks (Bey at 19, Stewart at 16, Duren at 14 are all value and Cade, Ivey and Ausar were all the consensus picks by the experts) and thought maybe I was being too harsh, but it has totally changed my mind and he needed to go on the 21st of July 2020.

In his first year he:
- made mostly a bunch of salary dumping moves for other teams that netted us minimal/insignificant future assets.
- made the Kennard for Saddiq Bey draft pick trade
- made the Christian Wood for Isaiah Stewart draft pick trade
- gave away DRose for next to nothing
- waived and stretched the Blake contract.
- signed Jerami Grant.
- drafted Killian Hayes
Everything else was Meh.

In his second year he:
- drafted Cade which was the safe pick
- signed Kelly Olynyk
- traded Lyles, Josh Jackson and 2nds for Bagley (which seemed like a reasonable gamble on an oft-injured 2nd overall pick)
Everything else was Meh.

In his third year he:
- drafted Ivey which was the safe pick (and who I wanted).
- traded Jerami Grant for a first and two seconds.
- traded the first from the Grant trade for the Jalen Duren draft pick and the Kemba salary dump.
- signed Marvin Bagley to a stupid contract.
- traded filler contracts and some pick swaps for Alec Burks and Nerlen Noels
- Traded Saben Lee and Kelly Olynyk for Bojan Bogdanovic.
- Bogdanovic signs a good 2 year extension.
- Traded Knox and Bey for James Wiseman (see trade for Bagley)
- Everything else was Meh.

In his fourth year he:
- made Monty Williams the highest paid coach in the league even though he didn't really want to be here.
- drafted Ausar Thompson which was the safe pick.
- traded up to draft Sasser. Seems like it was a reasonable risk.
- traded a second and our max slot capspace for Joe Harris (who was waived within 7 months)
- traded a second for Monte Morris
- traded Bagley and Livers for Muscala and Gallinari (both waived with 2 months)
- waived Killian Hayes because we couldn't find a trade for him.
- traded Monte Morris for Troy Brown Jr. and Shake Milton (Milton waived within 2 months).
- traded Knox for Fontecchio
- traded Bogdanovic and Burks for Fournier, Flynn, Grimes and Arcidiacono (waived Arcidiacono).
Everything else was Meh.


To me, he has made a couple of goodish free agent signings, some good picks in the late lottery/end of the first round. Nearly everything else has been pointless or straight up bad. I was feeling positive 45 minutes ago...

Because of Stewart, our trading flexibility has been and will be crippled for ten years. That plus drafting Hayes over Halliburton and turning Bey into Wiseman …… I’ll stop there.

Worst GM in forty years.

Actually one more thing…. Troy’s ego will take over this summer. We already saw it last summer when he extended Stewart early for no reason other than to make him look like he hit on that pick (newsflash -he didn’t). Huge unnecessary extension coming to Cade this off-season……….

[SuperBad]

I think Troy has been just gathering assets to move for a couple years now until this last deadline, so I expect him to turn the corner on the roster a bit this summer, I expect a huge improvement next year in a way I’m not seeing, most likely. But that being said it’s really hard to see us go from like 15 wins to anymore than 30 wins, to be better than that, there would have to be some wind at are backs, which hasn’t happened for us in a long time.

[Moses ShamMoses]

It seems like we keep reshuffling the deck with vets to "balance" the team. The young guys (draft picks) either haven't panned out or are taking longer to reach their potential. Ivey is a good example of a guy who's progress has stagnated and maybe even looks like he's regressed. You can't have "misses" like that in the lotto and yield a successful team.

[whitehops]

players acquired (or retained) that were traded this season and haven't played a minute since:

joe harris (waived by det, not picked up)
isaiah livers (didn't play a minute for WAS before going on IR)
kevin knox (waived by utah, not picked up)
killian hayes (waived by det, not picked up)
ryan arcidiacono (waived by det, not picked up)

it's pretty much another season where half the roster is on their last stop in the league.

[zeebneeb]

I think Troy has been just gathering assets to move for a couple years now until this last deadline, so I expect him to turn the corner on the roster a bit this summer, I expect a huge improvement next year in a way I’m not seeing, most likely. But that being said it’s really hard to see us go from like 15 wins to anymore than 30 wins, to be better than that, there would have to be some wind at are backs, which hasn’t happened for us in a long time.

I think if you took a poll of Piston fans, the overwhelming majority of us expect us to take a step forward next year, but also have no idea how that's going to happen.

It's a nightmare scenario. Expectations VS reality.

[Drwho17]

Let's take a look at two other notable tear-down rebuilds.


Philadelphia 76ers

The 2012-13 season ends with a 34-48 record and no playoffs. Doug Collins is fired. Sam Hinkie is hired. ' The process' begins.

Year 1 (2013-14 season): 19-63 record
Year 2 (2014-15 season): 18-64 record
Year 3 (2015-16 season): 10-72 record
Year 4 (2016-17 season): 28-54 record
Year 5 (2017-18 season): 52-30 record


OKC Thunder

The 2019-20 season ends with a 44-28 record (covid-shortened) and first round playoff exit. Billy Donovan is fired and the tear-down begins....

Year 1 (2020-21 season): 22-50 record
Year 2 (2021-22 season): 24-58 record
Year 3 (2022-23 season): 40-42 record
Year 4 (2023-24 season): 50 wins so far



Detroit Pistons

The 2018-19 season ends with a 41-41 record and first round playoff sweep. The tear-down somewhat starts the following season, 2019-20, which ends with a 20-41 covid-shortened record. Troy Weaver is then hired and the tear-down continues in earnest...

Year 1 (2020-21 season): 20-52 record
Year 2 (2021-22 season): 23-59 record
Year 3 (2022-23 season): 17-65 record
Year 4 (2023-24 season): 12 wins so far

.

So much to deconstruct there. The PG13 trade yielded a massive haul. Lottery "luck" has been a lil bonkers and not every lottery produces an MVP caliber player. But yeah, being here in year 4 doesn't feel good. It's time to either take a big step forward, or heads need to roll.

Good post Flow. And agree w you Cow on the PG13 impact - that basically gave OKC a year head start compared to our rebuild. And lottery luck? Ugh. We could have Wemby, Chet, Paolo, etc. But we got to play the cards we were dealt.

Weaver seemed aggressive but smart at the trade deadline - out w Bagley, Livers, Hayes, and our oft-injured vets (BB, Burks, Morris, Harris) and got Fontecchio and Grimes. I expect him to be even more aggressive this summer w the war chest of cap space. And even though I’ve defended Weaver for the most part, it’s only that he got us to this point - young core on rookie deals, more cap space than anyone else in the league, the (supposedly) best coach that was available. Now is the time to make the jump. And if not, totally agree that heads should roll.

The problem is at what point do you move on, if he's the wrong guy can we continue to let him keep picking/trading setting the franchise back yet longer. This is where I was at, the Pistons had cap space last summer and BLEW it helping other teams out of their jam's, what's to say he's not going to take on more guys like Joe Harris this summer for negligable compensation. I am patient, and I think patience is generally rewarded in franchise running situations, however I expected progress this year, the win total should be escalating from last year as the rock bottom, that didn't happen. So, I think I'm 70/30 to stop Weaver from making moves, only problem is who can they get to replace him with the coach locked in.

[theBigLip]

So much to deconstruct there. The PG13 trade yielded a massive haul. Lottery "luck" has been a lil bonkers and not every lottery produces an MVP caliber player. But yeah, being here in year 4 doesn't feel good. It's time to either take a big step forward, or heads need to roll.

Good post Flow. And agree w you Cow on the PG13 impact - that basically gave OKC a year head start compared to our rebuild. And lottery luck? Ugh. We could have Wemby, Chet, Paolo, etc. But we got to play the cards we were dealt.

Weaver seemed aggressive but smart at the trade deadline - out w Bagley, Livers, Hayes, and our oft-injured vets (BB, Burks, Morris, Harris) and got Fontecchio and Grimes. I expect him to be even more aggressive this summer w the war chest of cap space. And even though I’ve defended Weaver for the most part, it’s only that he got us to this point - young core on rookie deals, more cap space than anyone else in the league, the (supposedly) best coach that was available. Now is the time to make the jump. And if not, totally agree that heads should roll.

The problem is at what point do you move on, if he's the wrong guy can we continue to let him keep picking/trading setting the franchise back yet longer. This is where I was at, the Pistons had cap space last summer and BLEW it helping other teams out of their jam's, what's to say he's not going to take on more guys like Joe Harris this summer for negligable compensation. I am patient, and I think patience is generally rewarded in franchise running situations, however I expected progress this year, the win total should be escalating from last year as the rock bottom, that didn't happen. So, I think I'm 70/30 to stop Weaver from making moves, only problem is who can they get to replace him with the coach locked in.

I think Weaver had a different plan than what you (and many others) expected. Our vets to start the season: BB, Burks, Harris, Morris. Three common characteristics: they can (or used to) shoot, (unfortunately) often injured, and all expired this season. Good attempt to get shooters, unfortunately they were injured and didn’t help much, but they didn’t impact our cap for this year.

Why do that? We weren’t winning anything this season and all the young guys needed playing time. We got that. Everyone has improved because of it. Maybe hard to watch at times but still the right move. Spending money on big free agents would have been premature last summer. If that was your expectation, then yes, Weaver blew it. But that wasn’t his goal.

I’m fine with giving Weaver the chance to use the cap space he created as the final step for the rebuild. IMHO Next year is judgement time for him and his plan.

[Snakebites]

I’m fine with giving Weaver the chance to use the cap space he created as the final step for the rebuild. IMHO Next year is judgement time for him and his plan.

If you’re 12-61 you aren’t entering the final step of a rebuild. You’re still struggling with the first step.

[jars]

I’m fine with giving Weaver the chance to use the cap space he created as the final step for the rebuild. IMHO Next year is judgement time for him and his plan.

Do you really think that is where we are? I worry that we will do a Houston, pay a couple of guys other teams don't want to pay, and end up on the treadmill of mediocrity finishing in the play-in for the next 4 years before the next GM makes a desperate move for the next Blake Griffin, giving away some of our best assets and all to be first round fodder.

We are kind of handcuffed to Cade/Ivey/Ausar/Duren all taking big steps forward in the next year to be in a position that spending in free agency makes sense.