I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired.

[Invictus88]

I’m fine with giving Weaver the chance to use the cap space he created as the final step for the rebuild. IMHO Next year is judgement time for him and his plan.

If you’re 12-61 you aren’t entering the final step of a rebuild. You’re still struggling with the first step.

This.

It's almost disingenuous to suggest otherwise. A rebuild that is progressing is showing at least incremental improvement year over year as a team. We aren't doing that.

We aren't close to being competitive for anything. We are still laying / searching for a foundation.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

I’m fine with giving Weaver the chance to use the cap space he created as the final step for the rebuild. IMHO Next year is judgement time for him and his plan.

If you’re 12-61 you aren’t entering the final step of a rebuild. You’re still struggling with the first step.

This.

It's almost disingenuous to suggest otherwise. A rebuild that is progressing is showing at least incremental improvement year over year as a team. We aren't doing that.

We aren't close to being competitive for anything. We are still laying / searching for a foundation.

Here comes the part where Troy gives Cade an unnecessary max extension one year early, we fork out thirty million a year for a Tobias type, we win 25 games next year, and everyone says “Now we have no more money - what do we do now?”

Then Troy extends Ivey one year early, we start out 1-15, and Gores finally fires Troy.

Then this teardown finally gets a teardown……

[Spider156]

If you’re 12-61 you aren’t entering the final step of a rebuild. You’re still struggling with the first step.

This.

It's almost disingenuous to suggest otherwise. A rebuild that is progressing is showing at least incremental improvement year over year as a team. We aren't doing that.

We aren't close to being competitive for anything. We are still laying / searching for a foundation.

Here comes the part where Troy gives Cade an unnecessary max extension one year early, we fork out thirty million a year for a Tobias type, we win 25 games next year, and everyone says “Now we have no more money - what do we do now?”

Then Troy extends Ivey one year early, we start out 1-15, and Gores finally fires Troy.

Then this teardown finally gets a teardown……

You’re forgetting a key player for this year and the next year. Top 5 pick…isn’t that what this is all about? I don’t mind another swing at the top pick. It may give us the best trade asset to trade for a star player available over the summer. These things do exist. I would personally trade down for 2 picks and a role player. That’s how you build you need the right amount of dry powder in assets. With those two picks we can draft two high potential players again and flip who we have like Sasser, Stewart, Duren, Ivey. As long as we get a top 5 pick every year there’s always a chance that Cade gets the second star while the rest try to make it in the league. In the meantime Cade is the only player that deserves to get paid and ultimately I’m glad we’re giving him the max. He deserves it. The rest can either prove themselves or get traded, trust me it happens.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

You are right, I forgot about the part where Troy drafts another player who can’t shoot. Apologies

[jars]

This is going to sound really pessimistic, but what makes our future brighter than the Charlotte Hornets? Their roster has a young lead guard with potential but also question marks around injury history. They have a couple of good young potential bigs who are contributing. They have a young potential guy on the wing who looks like they could be a real piece (I'm splitting that across Ivey and Ausar for us). They have more first round picks than us because when they jettisoned their old guys, they actually got stuff of value back for them.

When I think of the epitome of poorly run teams, I think of the David Khan Timberwolves, the Isiah Thomas Knicks and the Michael Jordan owned Hornets. I can handle being worse than the Hornets, but not sure I can handle them also having a brighter future.

In 24 hours I have gone from 'let Troy have the offseason to figure this out' to 'If Troy runs our offseason, we could be irrelevant for 5 more years.'

[whitehops]

In 24 hours I have gone from 'let Troy have the offseason to figure this out' to 'If Troy runs our offseason, we could be irrelevant for 5 more years.'

This would actually be a perfect off season for a new GM to take over. There’s lots of cap space, a top 5 pick to either draft or trade, and little in terms of cleaning house if they wanted to move on from any young guys.

I have zero faith in weaver for this critical off season and could definitely see us being irrelevant for 5 more years if he’s making decisions. He’s waaaay too attached to “his guys” and believes they’ll all be stars.

[theBigLip]

I’m fine with giving Weaver the chance to use the cap space he created as the final step for the rebuild. IMHO Next year is judgement time for him and his plan.

If you’re 12-61 you aren’t entering the final step of a rebuild. You’re still struggling with the first step.

I guess we’ll see next year. If we get 30+ wins, I think we’re headed in the right direction as a franchise. We have more money than anyone else. We’re going to get help and get better. Even a bad GM can do that.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

In 24 hours I have gone from 'let Troy have the offseason to figure this out' to 'If Troy runs our offseason, we could be irrelevant for 5 more years.'

This would actually be a perfect off season for a new GM to take over. There’s lots of cap space, a top 5 pick to either draft or trade, and little in terms of cleaning house if they wanted to move on from any young guys.

I have zero faith in weaver for this critical off season and could definitely see us being irrelevant for 5 more years if he’s making decisions. He’s waaaay too attached to “his guys” and believes they’ll all be stars.

This. Here it comes. The same guy who has taken four years to put together a twelve win team is now going to spend all of the money.

I predict 20-25 wins next year (mostly because winning less is really hard), more false optimism, and a plateau. Maybe another presser by Gores telling us that losing is unacceptable

[JNewton]

I’m fine with giving Weaver the chance to use the cap space he created as the final step for the rebuild. IMHO Next year is judgement time for him and his plan.

If you’re 12-61 you aren’t entering the final step of a rebuild. You’re still struggling with the first step.

The Pistons' record has gotten worse every season under Weaver. I don't know how anyone could discern progress or a "final step" for the rebuild. It is at a point where it needs to go scorched earth and be started over, IMO.

[Canadafan]

Yes we suck. But....
We have over 60million in cap space and a top5 pick incoming.
We have 6 guys that are rotation players in my opinion. Duren Stew Ausur Ivey Cade Fontecchio
Then there is Sasser Grimes and to a lesser extent Wiseman
Maybe 1 or 2 of those 3 will add to our rotation but more importantly the aforementioned cap space and draft pick should be able to add to our 6 guys.
Worse case we draft a guy who is for the future and doesn't give us diddly-squat next season.
And our cap space gives us a much needed forward and guard. 8 guys total.
With Wiseman Sasser Grimes and our top5 pick being 3rd stringers. Sprinkle in 3vet mentor types and it looks promising.
It's dark now but the sun is coming up soon lol

[NYPiston]

Whoever is still defending this guy is a piece of **** person.

Whoever is still watching this team play is an imbecile.

If you think this guy is going to fix this mess, WAKE UP, stop being delusional.

Read on Twitter

Jesus dude, that's a tad harsh no? It's just a game.

[NYPiston]

Let's take a look at two other notable tear-down rebuilds.


Philadelphia 76ers

The 2012-13 season ends with a 34-48 record and no playoffs. Doug Collins is fired. Sam Hinkie is hired. ' The process' begins.

Year 1 (2013-14 season): 19-63 record
Year 2 (2014-15 season): 18-64 record
Year 3 (2015-16 season): 10-72 record
Year 4 (2016-17 season): 28-54 record
Year 5 (2017-18 season): 52-30 record


OKC Thunder

The 2019-20 season ends with a 44-28 record (covid-shortened) and first round playoff exit. Billy Donovan is fired and the tear-down begins....

Year 1 (2020-21 season): 22-50 record
Year 2 (2021-22 season): 24-58 record
Year 3 (2022-23 season): 40-42 record
Year 4 (2023-24 season): 50 wins so far



Detroit Pistons

The 2018-19 season ends with a 41-41 record and first round playoff sweep. The tear-down somewhat starts the following season, 2019-20, which ends with a 20-41 covid-shortened record. Troy Weaver is then hired and the tear-down continues in earnest...

Year 1 (2020-21 season): 20-52 record
Year 2 (2021-22 season): 23-59 record
Year 3 (2022-23 season): 17-65 record
Year 4 (2023-24 season): 12 wins so far

.

Yep, here's three more just to rub more salt in the wound.

Cleveland Cavaliers

Year 1 (2018-2019): 19-63
Year 2 (2019-2020): 19-46
Year 3 (2020-2021): 22-50
Year 4 (2021-2022): 44-38

Orlando Magic

Year 1 (2020-2021): 21-51
Year 2 (2021-2022): 22-60
Year 3 (2022-2023): 34-48
Year 4 (2023-2024): 42-30

Houston Rockets

Year 1 (2020-2021): 17-55
Year 2 (2021-2022): 20-62
Year 3 (2022-2023): 22-60
Year 4 (2023-2024): 37-35

The Rockets were my last hope for "at least we're not alone", welp that's over and done with.
There's clear and obvious progression with every team here and not only have the Pistons not progressed, they've actually regressed.
Can you imagine saying 4 years ago when the Pistons were a 20 win team with a bare bones roster that they would actually be WORSE 4 years later? Oh the humanity.

[Snakebites]

Facts:

1) We lost Cade for the entire year last year.

2) We entered that offseason with a top 5 pick and a sizable chunk of cap space.

These two things are undisputed. Given these facts I think it was totally reasonable to expect both roster and internal improvement going into that offseason. I certainly did.

Despite this, we STILL managed to regress even further.

I wish I was capable of calling an apple a fruit salad. I wish we all were able to do that. This board would be a more pleasant and happy place. But optimism just isn’t sympatico with the facts right now.

[Cowology]

Whoever is still defending this guy is a piece of **** person.

Whoever is still watching this team play is an imbecile.

If you think this guy is going to fix this mess, WAKE UP, stop being delusional.

Read on Twitter

Jesus dude, that's a tad harsh no? It's just a game.

Yeah, going too far vege.

I've asked this a half-dozen ways, so now let me be plain & clear; your constant anger is a problem on this board and you need to correct that. This is not cool.

[buzzkilloton]

Facts:

1) We lost Cade for the entire year last year.

2) We entered that offseason with a top 5 pick and a sizable chunk of cap space.

These two things are undisputed. Given these facts I think it was totally reasonable to expect both roster and internal improvement going into that offseason. I certainly did.

Despite this, we STILL managed to regress even further.

I wish I was capable of calling an apple a fruit salad. I wish we all were able to do that. This board would be a more pleasant and happy place. But optimism just isn’t sympatico with the facts right now.

I've got no faith in Troy. He was offered D.Murray this season and turned it down.D.Murray is carrying a crappy roster to over a 500+ record over in Atlanta and putting up massive games since T.Young went down.. He put up 44 7 7 in a OT win at Boston yesterday 2nd win vs them in the past 3.

This was the exact type of move we needed to make to start winning games. Their wont be anyone on the market on a such a good contract 3 more years at 30mill per with this level of production. Troy wants to do nothing but sit on his "core 4" and tank forever.

27 9apg 5reb shooting 39% 3pt on 10 3pas a game with 2 steals and only 2.8 TOV over his past 15 games no Trae Young. Its not bad luck why we stink its just straight bad GMing.

Read on Twitter

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[theBigLip]

Whoever is still defending this guy is a piece of **** person.

Whoever is still watching this team play is an imbecile.

If you think this guy is going to fix this mess, WAKE UP, stop being delusional.

Read on Twitter

Jesus dude, that's a tad harsh no? It's just a game.

Yeah, going too far vege.

I've asked this a half-dozen ways, so now let me be plain & clear; your constant anger is a problem on this board and you need to correct that. This is not cool.

Totally agree.

I don’t mind differing opinions but if one’s only take is that everyone is bad and everyone should be fired, and anyone who doesn’t think so is bad, I don’t see how that contributes to this board at all.

[Drwho17]

I was mostly still watching to watch Ausar T, but then they shut him down, I'm still watching but it is painful. I was hoping Duren would take a step, or I could see more Fontecchio or Grimes, but they are out too, this is craziness, I'm not sure they will win another game this year.

[Moses ShamMoses]

Troy Weaver has made me apathetic towards the Pistons but certainly not angry, not saying apathetic is good either...

[theBigLip]

I was mostly still watching to watch Ausar T, but then they shut him down, I'm still watching but it is painful. I was hoping Duren would take a step, or I could see more Fontecchio or Grimes, but they are out too, this is craziness, I'm not sure they will win another game this year.

You’re probably right. I don’t expect any more wins this season either. With half the team injured/shutdown, it’s hard to expect anything different.

[Sort]

I'm kind of shocked one person in Piston Land thinks Weaver should get another year before evaluation. When you are on year four of a rebuild and you've made either the worst team in NBA history or at least one of them, I think it's safe to say you absolutely failed. Pistons have a solid player in Cade and unquestionable talent in Duren, Ausar, and Ivey, but they don't fit together at all, Pistons actually owe a first round pick, and millions of dollars in cap space last year turned into mostly junk, so why would anyone think Weave a) will do anything better with it or b) think he should have the opportunity to do so.

I'm glad the Pistons aren't the Wizards, and that's the only real positive statement that can be made.