It's time! Ping-pong balls of doom. Sunday May 12th 3pm

[ComboGuardCity]

This draft is so underwhelming that I never cared about how the balls fell.

[Rip32]

This draft is so underwhelming that I never cared about how the balls fell.

This is how you know the nba is trash, when college bball can't product prospect worthy enough to be picked in the top 5

[Absolutia]

What we need is a coach that actually wants to develop our young team.

[Kalamazoo317]

Plenty of 3 and D prospects in this draft, which is exactly what we need around Cade. It's just a matter of getting one whose shot and defense actually translate.

[BDM22]

I see a few posters saying "trade Cade for picks". If we trade Cade for a bunch of picks and pick swaps whats going to happen is the team he goes to is going to be all in on winning and turn into a good team. Imagine trading him to the Spurs(this has been mentioned multiple times in diff threads here) Wemby and Cade would turn into a powerhouse and we would be loaded up on crappy picks so gross. Regardless no GM is going to trade Cade at this point, maybe in a few years if things arent working out we move him for a bunch of stuff.

Only thing I'm down about about falling to 5 this year is the trade value on the pick. If we werent going to trade it I'd rather hold it and just draft Reed Sheppard or Dalton Knecht. Ofc Troy likely wont draft them and we will grab another "what if" he could shoot type player or a center.

Spurs have 2 guaranteed high picks this year to offer, they have Atlanta's unprotected picks in 2025 and 2027, a protected pick from Charlotte in 2025 (not much value), and a Chicago top-10 protected in '25. Plus they have unprotected swap rights with Atlanta in 2026. That's just '24, '25, and '26 (they have some others further in the future). All on top of owning all of their own picks.

You can get a package of picks there worth cade without even touching San Antonio's, if you think they're going to be too good.

[buzzkilloton]

I see a few posters saying "trade Cade for picks". If we trade Cade for a bunch of picks and pick swaps whats going to happen is the team he goes to is going to be all in on winning and turn into a good team. Imagine trading him to the Spurs(this has been mentioned multiple times in diff threads here) Wemby and Cade would turn into a powerhouse and we would be loaded up on crappy picks so gross. Regardless no GM is going to trade Cade at this point, maybe in a few years if things arent working out we move him for a bunch of stuff.

Only thing I'm down about about falling to 5 this year is the trade value on the pick. If we werent going to trade it I'd rather hold it and just draft Reed Sheppard or Dalton Knecht. Ofc Troy likely wont draft them and we will grab another "what if" he could shoot type player or a center.

Spurs have 2 guaranteed high picks this year to offer, they have Atlanta's unprotected picks in 2025 and 2027, a protected pick from Charlotte in 2025 (not much value), and a Chicago top-10 protected in '25. Plus they have unprotected swap rights with Atlanta in 2026. That's just '24, '25, and '26 (they have some others further in the future). All on top of owning all of their own picks.

You can get a package of picks there worth cade without even touching San Antonio's, if you think they're going to be too good.

I want no picks in this years draft at all not even our own really.

Atlanta won 36 games this season with Trae Young only playing 54 games. 2022 41 wins 2021-43 wins. Their not going to completely fall off the map and blow it up when they owe out unprotected picks. With Jalen Johnson,Trae, Murray, and pick 1 they may make trades but they wont be going to the bottom of the standings.

Trading Cade for this sort of package is taking a dollar and breaking into a bunch of change that equals less than a dollar and going "look at all the shiny coins I have".

[BDM22]

I see a few posters saying "trade Cade for picks". If we trade Cade for a bunch of picks and pick swaps whats going to happen is the team he goes to is going to be all in on winning and turn into a good team. Imagine trading him to the Spurs(this has been mentioned multiple times in diff threads here) Wemby and Cade would turn into a powerhouse and we would be loaded up on crappy picks so gross. Regardless no GM is going to trade Cade at this point, maybe in a few years if things arent working out we move him for a bunch of stuff.

Only thing I'm down about about falling to 5 this year is the trade value on the pick. If we werent going to trade it I'd rather hold it and just draft Reed Sheppard or Dalton Knecht. Ofc Troy likely wont draft them and we will grab another "what if" he could shoot type player or a center.

Spurs have 2 guaranteed high picks this year to offer, they have Atlanta's unprotected picks in 2025 and 2027, a protected pick from Charlotte in 2025 (not much value), and a Chicago top-10 protected in '25. Plus they have unprotected swap rights with Atlanta in 2026. That's just '24, '25, and '26 (they have some others further in the future). All on top of owning all of their own picks.

You can get a package of picks there worth cade without even touching San Antonio's, if you think they're going to be too good.

I want no picks in this years draft at all not even our own really.

Atlanta won 36 games this season with Trae Young only playing 54 games. 2022 41 wins 2021-43 wins. Their not going to completely fall off the map and blow it up when they owe out unprotected picks. With Jalen Johnson,Trae, Murray, and pick 1 they may make trades but they wont be going to the bottom of the standings.

Trading Cade for this sort of package is taking a dollar and breaking into a bunch of change that equals less than a dollar and going "look at all the shiny coins I have".

Do you think Cade is worth like 6 guaranteed top-5 picks or something?

The Spurs, Hawks, and Bulls are all very real threats to make the lottery. None are likely to be near the top of the standings in the next year or 2. They aren't like Boston picks or OKC picks where you can pencil them in at like 25-30 every year.

That's what you want, especially with the flattened odds. And franchise players do get taken in the middle of the first round pretty regularly. Even in this "bad" draft, there's surely going to be one or two players that pop. This gives you a bunch of extra shots at that, on TOP of our own picks. You want to stumble onto the next Giannis, Maxey, Sengun, Jalen Williams, Haliburton, Donovan Mitchell, etc that blow past expectations. They're there every year. More shots at finding them is better.

Plus you get more chances that the lotto balls falls in your favor and you do end up with at least one of your picks landing near the top in GOOD drafts (like next year).

If you're giving yourself a guaranteed extra high pick this year (plus a few extra shots at in the next 2 years) that's a very good return. We're far more likely to end up with a real franchise player that way than the trajectory we're on.

This is how Orlando turned it around so fast. They landed 2 top-8 picks in a year where the top-8 was very deep and that got them Suggs and Franz because they traded away their all-star. The next year they got #1 in a pretty good year for it and that's a playoff team 2 year later. Houston got Sengun because they were able to move up into another draft pick by packaging some of their many future 1sts.

And importantly here, the guy you're worried about "breaking into a bunch of change" led us to 14 wins in year 3 as the #1 guy. Perhaps people need to realize that there's a good chance he's just a "shiny coin" himself. A good complimentary piece. Someone you could put next to Wembanyama and feel good about in that scenario.

[jars]

Do you think Cade is worth like 6 guaranteed top-5 picks or something?

No, but if you are trading the number 1 overall pick while he is on his rookie contract he is either an Anthony Bennett level bust or you are getting pack 150% of what you think he is worth. I think he is worth multiple top 5 picks + some assets in most drafts and way more in this weak draft.

[buzzkilloton]

Spurs have 2 guaranteed high picks this year to offer, they have Atlanta's d.

Do you think Cade is worth like 6 guaranteed top-5 picks or something?

The Spurs, Hawks, and Bulls are all very real threats to make the lottery. None are likely to be near the top of the standings in the next year or 2. They aren't like Boston picks or OKC picks. That's what you want, especially with the flattened odds. And franchise players do get taken in the middle of the first round pretty regularly. Even in this "bad" draft, there's surely going to be one or two players that pop. This gives you a bunch of extra shots at that, on TOP of our own picks. You want to stumble onto the next Giannis, Maxey, Sengun, Jalen Williams, Haliburton, Donovan Mitchell, etc that blow past expectations. They're there every year.

Plus you get more chances that the lotto balls falls in your favor and you do end up with at least one of your picks landing near the top.

If you're giving yourself a guaranteed extra high pick this year (plus a few extra shots at in in the next 2 years, that's a very good return. We're far more likely to end up with a real franchise player that way than the trajectory we're on.

Were not getting "6 guaranteed top 5 picks".

The Bulls pick is top 10 protected, top 8 protected,top 8 protected, then it converys into into a 2nd rounder.

If Pop and the Spurs get Cade to go with year two Wemby+have tons of cap space they will likely be in the playoffs or close to it next season. Wemby was awesome as a rookie like incredible. Their picks are going to be worthless. GM BDM has gifted them a dynasty with Wemby+Cade and the best coach ever well played.

Not sure if you've been paying attention but the Pistons have YEARS of lotto picks that havent turned into anything good. Not that picks from the Hawks and Spurs after this season are guaranteed lotto picks at all their not either. Its not like were getting a bag of picks from a old team that could fall apart due to injuries these are teams led by young players.

Cade is a highly regarded pick 1 prospect on his rookie deal who just finished his 2nd full season and made massive improvements from year 1 esp when he got his feet under him this year. He has a very very high ceiling top 10-15 player ITL type ceiling. To trade him still on his rookie deal with a locked in next contract would require us to get guaranteed talented young players and a huge bag of picks back.

All that said its just a waste for me to be even replying to this negative fan spew. No GM is ever going to trade Cade at this point when we havent even tried to put a non tanking roster around him. Sure its possible in a couple seasons but it sure as hell isnt happening now.

[BDM22]

Do you think Cade is worth like 6 guaranteed top-5 picks or something?

No, but if you are trading the number 1 overall pick while he is on his rookie contract he is either an Anthony Bennett level bust or you are getting pack 150% of what you think he is worth. I think he is worth multiple top 5 picks + some assets in most drafts and way more in this weak draft.

Well it's going to be difficult to guarantee future top-5 picks as that's not how it works with the draft lottery. These deals being talked about that include #4 and #8 plus a few picks from current lottery teams in the next couple of years are probably well beyond 150%.

[theBigLip]

Do you think Cade is worth like 6 guaranteed top-5 picks or something?

No, but if you are trading the number 1 overall pick while he is on his rookie contract he is either an Anthony Bennett level bust or you are getting pack 150% of what you think he is worth. I think he is worth multiple top 5 picks + some assets in most drafts and way more in this weak draft.

Well it's going to be difficult to guarantee future top-5 picks as that's not how it works with the draft lottery. These deals being talked about that include #4 and #8 plus a few picks from current lottery teams in the next couple of years are probably well beyond 150%.

#4 and #8 in this draft is like #9 and #14 in most draft years. And Buzz just explained how these picks are not going to be that good. A lot of picks but if they are late lottery we are very unlikely to get a player as good as Cade w all those picks. I’m happy keeping Cade.

[jars]

Do you think Cade is worth like 6 guaranteed top-5 picks or something?

No, but if you are trading the number 1 overall pick while he is on his rookie contract he is either an Anthony Bennett level bust or you are getting pack 150% of what you think he is worth. I think he is worth multiple top 5 picks + some assets in most drafts and way more in this weak draft.

Well it's going to be difficult to guarantee future top-5 picks as that's not how it works with the draft lottery. These deals being talked about that include #4 and #8 plus a few picks from current lottery teams in the next couple of years are probably well beyond 150%.

I think we just value Cade differently. I think what you're proposing above is about 80% of what he is worth to the Pistons. Unless we get something that blows us away (150%+ of his worth), we just have to keep him.

[BDM22]

No, but if you are trading the number 1 overall pick while he is on his rookie contract he is either an Anthony Bennett level bust or you are getting pack 150% of what you think he is worth. I think he is worth multiple top 5 picks + some assets in most drafts and way more in this weak draft.

Well it's going to be difficult to guarantee future top-5 picks as that's not how it works with the draft lottery. These deals being talked about that include #4 and #8 plus a few picks from current lottery teams in the next couple of years are probably well beyond 150%.

#4 and #8 in this draft is like #9 and #14 in most draft years. And Buzz just explained how these picks are not going to be that good. A lot of picks but if they are late lottery we are very unlikely to get a player as good as Cade w all those picks. I’m happy keeping Cade.

Virtually every year you have players available at 9-14 that are as good or better than Cade.

12th Jalen Williams
16th Sengun
12th Haliburton
21st Maxey
30th Bane
11th SGA
10th Mikal Bridges
33rd Brunson
13th Donovan Mitchell
11th Sabonis
27th Siakam
29th Dejounte
13th Booker
15th Giannis

If you're getting like 5 extra shots at that range of player on top of our yearly #5 pick, we'd have a lot of extra cracks at a true franchise player or at least multiple all-star types. And of course you have the chance that you get lucky and one of these jumps into the top 3 or 4 in a good draft. Multiple teams moved way up this year. Houston just got that (albeit in a less exciting year). Nothing is guaranteed but IMO it's a better route than going all-in around a #2 guy.

[jars]

Well it's going to be difficult to guarantee future top-5 picks as that's not how it works with the draft lottery. These deals being talked about that include #4 and #8 plus a few picks from current lottery teams in the next couple of years are probably well beyond 150%.

#4 and #8 in this draft is like #9 and #14 in most draft years. And Buzz just explained how these picks are not going to be that good. A lot of picks but if they are late lottery we are very unlikely to get a player as good as Cade w all those picks. I’m happy keeping Cade.

Virtually every year you have players available at 9-14 that are as good or better than Cade.

12th Jalen Williams
16th Sengun
12th Haliburton
21st Maxey
30th Bane
11th SGA
10th Mikal Bridges
33rd Brunson
13th Donovan Mitchell
11th Sabonis
27th Siakam
29th Dejounte
13th Booker
15th Giannis

If you're getting like 5 extra shots at that range of player on top of our yearly #5 pick, we'd have a lot of extra cracks at a true franchise player or at least multiple all-star types. And of course you have the chance that you get lucky and one of these jumps into the top 3 or 4 in a good draft. Multiple teams moved way up this year. Houston just got that (albeit in a less exciting year). Nothing is guaranteed but IMO it's a better route than going all-in around a #2 guy.

You have to be pretty sure of your scouting department to be able to hit in the back end of the lottery or later and our scouting department has not been good for a long time. You can't expect us to find all star calibre players in that range For every one of these stars, there are 4x as many busts or role players in the same range.

I get the more chances we have, the more likely it is to land a star theory, but these aren't ping pong balls in a lottery and there is an element of institutional skill in identifying talent which we haven't had in the same way that Memphis and OKC have in the past. Unless we get a PoBB who brings in a scouting team who does have this skill, I just don't trust us to land a star in that range, so I would prefer to stand pat and run the course.

[BDM22]

#4 and #8 in this draft is like #9 and #14 in most draft years. And Buzz just explained how these picks are not going to be that good. A lot of picks but if they are late lottery we are very unlikely to get a player as good as Cade w all those picks. I’m happy keeping Cade.

Virtually every year you have players available at 9-14 that are as good or better than Cade.

12th Jalen Williams
16th Sengun
12th Haliburton
21st Maxey
30th Bane
11th SGA
10th Mikal Bridges
33rd Brunson
13th Donovan Mitchell
11th Sabonis
27th Siakam
29th Dejounte
13th Booker
15th Giannis

If you're getting like 5 extra shots at that range of player on top of our yearly #5 pick, we'd have a lot of extra cracks at a true franchise player or at least multiple all-star types. And of course you have the chance that you get lucky and one of these jumps into the top 3 or 4 in a good draft. Multiple teams moved way up this year. Houston just got that (albeit in a less exciting year). Nothing is guaranteed but IMO it's a better route than going all-in around a #2 guy.

You have to be pretty sure of your scouting department to be able to hit in the back end of the lottery or later and our scouting department has not been good for a long time. You can't expect us to find all star calibre players in that range For every one of these stars, there are 4x as many busts or role players in the same range.

I get the more chances we have, the more likely it is to land a star theory, but these aren't ping pong balls in a lottery and there is an element of institutional skill in identifying talent which we haven't had in the same way that Memphis and OKC have in the past. Unless we get a PoBB who brings in a scouting team who does have this skill, I just don't trust us to land a star in that range, so I would prefer to stand pat and run the course.

Then we're cooked either way so none of this matters lol. If we're not gonna find a true franchise player with a few shots per draft, how are we going to find it with 1?

[JohnReese]

I might be one of the few Pistons fans that is happy with the #5. High salary on weak drafts hurts many time the development of the player and restricting minutes of a #1 is complicated. The media, ownership and so on put a lot of pressure on the early picks. If they don't kill it in SL the bust label starts.

Additionally, I'd rather take Topic or Buzelis than the French guys.

[BDM22]

Do you think Cade is worth like 6 guaranteed top-5 picks or something?

The Spurs, Hawks, and Bulls are all very real threats to make the lottery. None are likely to be near the top of the standings in the next year or 2. They aren't like Boston picks or OKC picks. That's what you want, especially with the flattened odds. And franchise players do get taken in the middle of the first round pretty regularly. Even in this "bad" draft, there's surely going to be one or two players that pop. This gives you a bunch of extra shots at that, on TOP of our own picks. You want to stumble onto the next Giannis, Maxey, Sengun, Jalen Williams, Haliburton, Donovan Mitchell, etc that blow past expectations. They're there every year.

Plus you get more chances that the lotto balls falls in your favor and you do end up with at least one of your picks landing near the top.

If you're giving yourself a guaranteed extra high pick this year (plus a few extra shots at in in the next 2 years, that's a very good return. We're far more likely to end up with a real franchise player that way than the trajectory we're on.

Were not getting "6 guaranteed top 5 picks".

The Bulls pick is top 10 protected, top 8 protected,top 8 protected, then it converys into into a 2nd rounder.

If Pop and the Spurs get Cade to go with year two Wemby+have tons of cap space they will likely be in the playoffs or close to it next season. Wemby was awesome as a rookie like incredible. Their picks are going to be worthless. GM BDM has gifted them a dynasty with Wemby+Cade and the best coach ever well played.

......

Of course not. Cade isn't worth anywhere close to that. That's like 3X his value. I think you missed my entire point there. There really aren't many players at all worth 6 top-5 picks, if such a package were even possible to come up with.

If Cade was worth anywhere close to that this wouldn't even be a conversation because this team would have been competing for the play-in last year even with a poorly fitting roster. Instead our wins decreased from the previous year where Cade didn't play and we were trotting out rookie Ivey as the guy with the ball in his hands next to Killian Hayes!!

What the Spurs turn into ain't gonna matter to us. They're already in another galaxy with their pool of assets and Wemby. To think we're gonna even approach teams like OKC and the Spurs in a few years by going all in around a #2 guy with no notable future assets in the war chest is not at all realistic.

Personally, I doubt San Antonio would even go all-in with the picks on Cade. It's too risky for them with the injury history and Wemby is 20 so they can be more patient IMO. But if they were offering 5 1sts over the next few drafts, I'm accepting, and I'd strongly consider 4, depending on which ones.

[buzzkilloton]

Do you think Cade is worth like 6 guaranteed top-5 picks or something?

. [/b]

The Bulls pick is top 10 protected, top 8 protected,top 8 protected, then it converys into into a 2nd rounder.

If Pop and the Spurs get Cade to go with year two Wemby+have tons of cap space they will likely be in the playoffs or close to it next season. Wemby was awesome as a rookie like incredible. Their picks are going to be worthless. GM BDM has gifted them a dynasty with Wemby+Cade and the best coach ever well played.

......

Of course not. Cade isn't worth anywhere close to that. That's like 3X his value. I think you missed my entire point there. There really aren't many players at all worth 6 top-5 picks, if such a package were even possible to come up with.

If Cade was worth anywhere close to that this wouldn't even be a conversation because this team would have been competing for the play-in last year even with a poorly fitting roster. Instead our wins decreased from the previous year where Cade didn't play and we were trotting out rookie Ivey as the guy with the ball in his hands next to Killian Hayes!!

What the Spurs turn into ain't gonna matter to us. They're already in another galaxy with their pool of assets and Wemby. To think we're gonna even approach teams like OKC and the Spurs in a few years by going all in around a #2 guy with no notable future assets in the war chest is not at all realistic.

Personally, I doubt San Antonio would even go all-in with the picks on Cade. It's too risky for them with the injury history and Wemby is 20 so they can be more patient IMO. But if they were offering 5 1sts over the next few drafts, I'm accepting, and I'd strongly consider 4, depending on which ones.

"If Cade was worth anywhere close to that this wouldn't even be a conversation because this team would have been competing for the play-in last year even with a poorly fitting roster."

Cade isnt the first young talented young player to not be capable of carrying a terrible roster to playin level. Cade just played his 2nd full season he was coming off a serious injury which he didnt look healthy from until halfway through the year. Even the great Kevin Durant only won 23 games his 2nd full season and he was already a efficient 25 5 5 guy.

Regardless debating this topic is completely pointless its pure negative fan fiction. 0% chance we trade Cade this offseason. If we changed owners and hired a new GM 0% chance we would trade Cade this offseason.

[buzzkilloton]

Well it's going to be difficult to guarantee future top-5 picks as that's not how it works with the draft lottery. These deals being talked about that include #4 and #8 plus a few picks from current lottery teams in the next couple of years are probably well beyond 150%.

#4 and #8 in this draft is like #9 and #14 in most draft years. And Buzz just explained how these picks are not going to be that good. A lot of picks but if they are late lottery we are very unlikely to get a player as good as Cade w all those picks. I’m happy keeping Cade.

Virtually every year you have players available at 9-14 that are as good or better than Cade.

12th Jalen Williams
16th Sengun
12th Haliburton
21st Maxey
30th Bane
11th SGA
10th Mikal Bridges
33rd Brunson
13th Donovan Mitchell
11th Sabonis
27th Siakam
29th Dejounte
13th Booker
15th Giannis

If you're getting like 5 extra shots at that range of player on top of our yearly #5 pick, we'd have a lot of extra cracks at a true franchise player or at least multiple all-star types. And of course you have the chance that you get lucky and one of these jumps into the top 3 or 4 in a good draft. Multiple teams moved way up this year. Houston just got that (albeit in a less exciting year). Nothing is guaranteed but IMO it's a better route than going all-in around a #2 guy.

When you're operating with a crystal ball that knows the future then you can easily hit on great players every draft obv.

Since 1994 when we drafted Grant Hill we have drafted a grand total of two all stars. Andre Drummond and Middleton who we traded pre breakout. Thats 30 years of drafting. Its hilarious we have a obv hit in the draft we've been waiting forever for but "hes likely only a #2 on a contender" so lets trade him for more picks so can attempt to use our franchises impeccable drafting to build a team.

[BDM22]

Of course not. Cade isn't worth anywhere close to that. That's like 3X his value. I think you missed my entire point there. There really aren't many players at all worth 6 top-5 picks, if such a package were even possible to come up with.

If Cade was worth anywhere close to that this wouldn't even be a conversation because this team would have been competing for the play-in last year even with a poorly fitting roster. Instead our wins decreased from the previous year where Cade didn't play and we were trotting out rookie Ivey as the guy with the ball in his hands next to Killian Hayes!!

What the Spurs turn into ain't gonna matter to us. They're already in another galaxy with their pool of assets and Wemby. To think we're gonna even approach teams like OKC and the Spurs in a few years by going all in around a #2 guy with no notable future assets in the war chest is not at all realistic.

Personally, I doubt San Antonio would even go all-in with the picks on Cade. It's too risky for them with the injury history and Wemby is 20 so they can be more patient IMO. But if they were offering 5 1sts over the next few drafts, I'm accepting, and I'd strongly consider 4, depending on which ones.

"If Cade was worth anywhere close to that this wouldn't even be a conversation because this team would have been competing for the play-in last year even with a poorly fitting roster."

Cade isnt the first young talented young player to not be capable of carrying a terrible roster to playin level. Cade just played his 2nd full season he was coming off a serious injury which he didnt look healthy from until halfway through the year. Even the great Kevin Durant only won 23 games his 2nd full season and he was already a efficient 25 5 5 guy.

Regardless debating this topic is completely pointless its pure negative fan fiction. 0% chance we trade Cade this offseason. If we changed owners and hired a new GM 0% chance we would trade Cade this offseason.

KD was 2nd in MVP voting to Lebron at 21 years old when he led OKC to 50 wins. When KD was Cade's age today (22) he was taking his team to the Western Conference Finals! It's not a comparison you really want to use here.

You don't find it at all concerning that Cade played in 9 wins out of 62 games he played this year? 0.145 winning percentage with him versus 0.250 without? That we got worse when he came back this year compared to last? No hesitation here?

No red flags that maybe he's not the #1 guy to go all-in around? That maybe selling while that #1 pick allure is still there to a degree might be the way forward? It doesn't last forever. That max contract number tends to brings things back to reality. Especially if the injuries keep adding up.