Billl wrote:Redeemed wrote:Billl wrote:
You can be a starting PG in the NBA with just average AA. Jameer Nelson has started for years and even made it to the finals, and he's short, slow and can't jump.
It's just really hard to get from starter level to the star level without elite athleticism. Being crafty only takes you so far against Rose or Westbrook etc.
Interesting thoughts Bill.
Question:
For this I'm going into the old school archives.
Do you view Gary Payton as a player who had elite athleticism? How about Fat Lever?
It is difficult for me to discern where Dinwiddie will ultimately fall. I think he's a very skilled ball player with that trash talking swag like Steve Smith back in the day. He "appears" to be a hardworker. And with the videos of his play he's a guy with great body control and a point guard's "feel" for the game.
Can he possibly boost his explosiveness? Sure. Will he make it, athleticism wise, to Westbrook/Rose level? Not likely. Can he be a more skilled cerebral point guard than those guys? Possibly. Still like I said earlier, it is difficult to discern. There's not much out there on the guy other than anecdotal analysis and a handful of videos.
GP certainly was up there in athleticism for his day. He was an absolute lock down defender. Lever - eh - there is something to be said for a pg that can lead his team in rebounding.
The big picture though is that the PG position has changed a whole lot in the last 30 years. The current crop of pg's is stacked with some top notch athletes. It's just one of those ebbs and flows of the league. It goes through stretches where certain positions just stand out. Sometimes you've got some dominant bigs, sometimes wing players, sometimes point guards. Right now, pg is just a tough, tough guard most nights and anyone who isn't isn't a top notch athlete is going to have a hard time being considered in that top group. Those top guys just have an extra gear that is pretty much impossible to match.
None of that mean dinwiddie is going to be good, bad or otherwise. It's just that even if he develops into a really good pg, there is an extra level of pg's in the league that are both very skilled AND incredible athletes. It's hard to imagine him ever reaching that level even under the best of circumstances, so that's why I would put his ceiling at being "just" a quality starter. That would still be fantastic for a second round pick.
The positions from PG to Center have changed over the years. And yes there are very skilled and incredible athletes in the league. Still over the years we have found players who play at highlevels for a prolific number of years who find other ways to gain an advantage over their colleagues.
John Stockton was not a top flight athlete, yet he is named as one of the greatest ever. The same can be said for the multiple MVPs winning
Steve Nash, he's a guy with tremendous skill and Basketball IQ.
I personally would lump Gary Payton in with the players who were not exceptionally athletic. He was quick with his bursts and changes of speed and direction but he wasn't grease lightning like John Wall or Westbrook.
Andre Miller is a guy who was one of the better pgs in the league for several years.
Michael Carter Williams is a long skilled player without an outside shot who came in as a rookie and did work against some of the better pgs in the league. MCW is another who lacks the exceptional athleticism of the top pgs in the league, yet that didn't stop him from busting their butts in his rookie year.
Spencer Dinwiddie cannot be undersold in terms of his growth as a player based on lack of otherworldly leaping ability and speed. The game is about leveraging your advantage. If he can figure out how to do that, he has tremendous potential for success.
