2016 18th Pick - Henry Ellenson - Welcome to Detroit!

El Chivo · Post #121 » by **El Chivo** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:53 am

Nobody ever mentions Ellenson huge wingspan.

need4detroit · Post #122 » by **need4detroit** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:46 pm

Todd3 wrote:
mattao313 wrote:
Todd3 wrote:Drummond isn't as nimble as Thompson weighing 50+ lbs more, but he's capable of doing similar things defensively. We've seen him switch successfully on Wade and LeBron over the years. Ellenson isn't much different from Love athletically..

Meh...Not sure about that.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVfgzvhIANk[/youtube]

coordinator0 · Post #123 » by **coordinator0** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:36 pm

El Chivo wrote:Nobody ever mentions Ellenson huge wingspan.

For a 6'10 prospect it's averagely good. DraftExpress is down right now but I think the wingspan was something like 7'2.5" which would be +4 compared to his height. Domantas Sabonis measured in at around 6'9.5" with something like a 6'11.5" wingspan for a +2 compared to his height, and that was one of the knocks against him.

MotownMadness · Post #124 » by **MotownMadness** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:40 pm

coordinator0 wrote:
El Chivo wrote:Nobody ever mentions Ellenson huge wingspan.

For a 6'10 prospect it's averagely good. DraftExpress is down right now but I think the wingspan was something like 7'2.5" which would be +4 compared to his height. Domantas Sabonis measured in at around 6'9.5" with something like a 6'11.5" wingspan for a +2 compared to his height, and that was one of the knocks against him.

7'2 wingspan is pretty good though. I know what your saying when you compare it to his height but that's still a lot of length. Makes you wonder why the hell Drummond isn't a better shot blocker though running around with a 7'6 wingspan, That's ridiculous and he should be a elite shot blocker.

coordinator0 · Post #125 » by **coordinator0** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:48 pm

MotownMadness wrote:7'2 wingspan is pretty good though. I know what your saying when you compare it to his height but that's still a lot of length. Makes you wonder why the hell Drummond isn't a better shot blocker though running around with a 7'6 wingspan, That's ridiculous and he should be a elite shot blocker.

That's standing reach, not wingspan. Drummond's 9'1.5" measurement is good, but not particularly huge. He should still be a better shot blocker regardless though with his athleticism.

The importance of wingspan is relative to height. Ellenson's is fine and his is bigger than that of Harris or Morris, but is practically the same as Baynes' and Tolliver's. The Pistons aren't gaining a whole lot in that regard.

Todd3 · Post #126 » by **Todd3** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:51 pm

need4detroit wrote:
Todd3 wrote:
mattao313 wrote:

Meh...Not sure about that.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVfgzvhIANk[/youtube]

Dre's an athletic freak for his size, but Thompson is 6-9 240 lbs and Dre is 6-11 280lbs , so it's not really a fair comparison in terms of being able to guard Guards on the perimeter. But Dre can definitely do it too at times if necessary.

Todd3 · Post #127 » by **Todd3** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:58 pm

coordinator0 wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:7'2 wingspan is pretty good though. I know what your saying when you compare it to his height but that's still a lot of length. Makes you wonder why the hell Drummond isn't a better shot blocker though running around with a 7'6 wingspan, That's ridiculous and he should be a elite shot blocker.

That's standing reach, not wingspan. Drummond's 9'1.5" measurement is good, but not particularly huge. He should still be a better shot blocker regardless though with his athleticism.

The importance of wingspan is relative to height. Ellenson's is fine and his is bigger than that of Harris or Morris, but is practically the same as Baynes' and Tolliver's. The Pistons aren't gaining a whole lot in that regard.

Length is length though. When it comes playing passing lanes, a 6-11 guy with a 7'2 WS has the same physical ability as a 6-9 guy with a 7'2 WS in terms getting deflections. They both can reach the same length side to side regardless how tall they are.

coordinator0 · Post #128 » by **coordinator0** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:10 pm

Todd3 wrote:Length is length though. When it comes playing passing lanes, a 6-11 guy with a 7'2 WS has the same physical ability as a 6-9 guy with a 7'2 WS in terms getting deflections. They both can reach the same length side to side regardless how tall they are.

All I'm saying is Ellenson's wingspan is nothing special compared to most other guys who play PF or C. You know, average.

need4detroit · Post #129 » by **need4detroit** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:17 pm

Todd3 wrote:
need4detroit wrote:
Todd3 wrote:

Meh...Not sure about that.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVfgzvhIANk[/youtube]

Dre's an athletic freak for his size, but Thompson is 6-9 240 lbs and Dre is 6-11 280lbs , so it's not really a fair comparison in terms of being able to guard Guards on the perimeter. But Dre can definitely do it too at times if necessary.

Regardless of size, I don't think Thompson has Dre's lateral quickness or full court speed for that matter. I watched them both during the playoffs. And the sports science backs it up. We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. That video isn't measuring Dre's agility compared to his size, its measuring his raw agility not taking size into account.

Todd3 · Post #130 » by **Todd3** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:28 pm

need4detroit wrote:
Todd3 wrote:
need4detroit wrote:Meh...Not sure about that.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVfgzvhIANk[/youtube]

Dre's an athletic freak for his size, but Thompson is 6-9 240 lbs and Dre is 6-11 280lbs , so it's not really a fair comparison in terms of being able to guard Guards on the perimeter. But Dre can definitely do it too at times if necessary.

Regardless of size, I don't think Thompson has Dre's lateral quickness or full court speed for that matter. I watched them both during the playoffs. And the sports science backs it up. We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. That video isn't measuring Dre's agility compared to his size, its measuring his raw agility not taking size into account.

Hmmm...I'm pretty much agreeing with you that Dre is a freak, but I still have to give the slight nod to Thompson when it comes to guarding the perimeter. After watching him guard Curry, I just can't say Dre is quicker because I don't think he can guard PGs like that. Guarding Wade/LeBron is impressive, but Curry is a different level of quick. That's no slight on Dre. Thompson is 40-50 lbs lighter and should be quicker. That's all I'm saying. At 6-9/235-240, he's basically a quasi-SF with the length of a C. That's why he can guard on the perimeter and protect the rim like that. 6-11/280 lbs Centers aren't supposed to be able to guard PGs.

tmorgan · Post #131 » by **tmorgan** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:47 pm

The Curry that TT was guarding in the Finals isn't the real Curry. Hell, Love guarded him on the perimeter effectively in the final minute of Game 7... Curry was not healthy.

Scout Taron · Post #132 » by **Scout Taron** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:21 pm

Todd3 wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:7'2 wingspan is pretty good though. I know what your saying when you compare it to his height but that's still a lot of length. Makes you wonder why the hell Drummond isn't a better shot blocker though running around with a 7'6 wingspan, That's ridiculous and he should be a elite shot blocker.

That's standing reach, not wingspan. Drummond's 9'1.5" measurement is good, but not particularly huge. He should still be a better shot blocker regardless though with his athleticism.

The importance of wingspan is relative to height. Ellenson's is fine and his is bigger than that of Harris or Morris, but is practically the same as Baynes' and Tolliver's. The Pistons aren't gaining a whole lot in that regard.

Length is length though. When it comes playing passing lanes, a 6-11 guy with a 7'2 WS has the same physical ability as a 6-9 guy with a 7'2 WS in terms getting deflections. They both can reach the same length side to side regardless how tall they are.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=averages&year=All

The average for a 6'10" player is

7' 1.8" wingspan
9' 0.9" standing reach

Ellenson is

7' 2.25" wingspan
9' 0" standing reach

So yeah, very average length.

Blkbrd671 · Post #133 » by **Blkbrd671** » Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:20 am

Its really odd that ellenson fades like dirk and also runs like him. I would not be suprised to see a Euro Step

zeebneeb · Post #134 » by **zeebneeb** » Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:34 am

People are really, really underestimating ellenson. This kid is seriously gifted on the offensive end of the floor and had outstanding handles and is basically a point forward.

Moves that like blkbrd said are dirk~.

If he can score and move like that, his defense is not as important. Kid may end becoming a beast a few years down the road.

I'm really high on this kid.

MotownMadness · Post #135 » by **MotownMadness** » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:13 am

zeebneeb wrote:People are really, really underestimating ellenson. This kid is seriously gifted on the offensive end of the floor and had outstanding handles and is basically a point forward.

Moves that like blkbrd said are dirk~.

If he can score and move like that, his defense is not as important. Kid may end becoming a beast a few years down the road.

I'm really high on this kid.

I'm becoming a big fan for sure. Like SVG said he's not just getting by on a bunch of athleticism like a lot of kids his age. He was one of the best bigs in college ball because of skill. If we can just get him playing avg defense now he's going to be a really good player.

tmorgan · Post #136 » by **tmorgan** » Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:11 am

Bottom line... poor man's Dirk is a pretty good player. Let's hope that's what he is.

mercury · Post #137 » by **mercury** » Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:49 am

ZZZzzz Kid's gonna get abused on D... good luck earning PT

DETermination · Post #138 » by **DETermination** » Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:20 am

mercury wrote:ZZZzzz Kid's gonna get abused on D... good luck earning PT

Anthony Tolliver was the backup pf last season I think Henry will be fine with getting pt

Todd3 · Post #139 » by **Todd3** » Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:25 am

tmorgan wrote:The Curry that TT was guarding in the Finals isn't the real Curry. Hell, Love guarded him on the perimeter effectively in the final minute of Game 7... Curry was not healthy.

No, that was the real Curry. The protected version the NBA gave us the last 2 yrs to make him look superhuman was the fake Curry.

Once they allowed teams to get physical with him, we got the real version. A soft jumpshooter/sloppy passer who takes bad shots. When you can't touch him and he can stay in rhythm, he can make the bad shots and people overlook the bad decisions/turnovers. When you're allowed to get physical with him and bump him off rhythm, he can't make those shots anymore and he just becomes a useless turnover machine.

Can't say he wasn't healthy when he plays bad, then when he scores 30 he's healthy again, then not healthy when he plays bad again. He was just inconsistent because he's a jumpshooter reliant on rhythm to succeed and it's hard to maintain rhythm vs physical defense.

Todd3 · Post #140 » by **Todd3** » Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:15 am

Scout Taron wrote:
Todd3 wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
That's standing reach, not wingspan. Drummond's 9'1.5" measurement is good, but not particularly huge. He should still be a better shot blocker regardless though with his athleticism.

The importance of wingspan is relative to height. Ellenson's is fine and his is bigger than that of Harris or Morris, but is practically the same as Baynes' and Tolliver's. The Pistons aren't gaining a whole lot in that regard.

Length is length though. When it comes playing passing lanes, a 6-11 guy with a 7'2 WS has the same physical ability as a 6-9 guy with a 7'2 WS in terms getting deflections. They both can reach the same length side to side regardless how tall they are.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=averages&year=All

The average for a 6'10" player is

7' 1.8" wingspan
9' 0.9" standing reach

Ellenson is

7' 2.25" wingspan
9' 0" standing reach

So yeah, very average length.

I didn't say it wasn't average for his height, I'm saying height isn't relevant. 7'2 is 7'2 no matter how tall he is. If he was only 6-8, his WS would be considered elite for his height, but it would still be the same 7'2. So what difference does it make?

Ibaka at 7'3 is only 3/4" longer than Ellenson and no one would call his average. 7'2.25 is long regardless of height.