2017-18 Detroit Pistons Luxury Tax/Cap

[Kilo]

Yeah, even disregarding cap holds the Pistons are still slightly over the projected $99 million cap. Can't give an offer sheet to RFAs or outright sign UFAs. Exceptions are the only thing Detroit has to work with. Well, trades too but that's a given.

Also, Ellis seems to have gotten some new information:

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But to be fair the Pistons better be okay with going slightly over the luxury threshold because there's very little way to avoid it if moves aren't made. And I doubt they will be, Harris might be the only player with a significant salary that can be moved without attaching an asset. But he's the best player on the team, so...

I think Mook could be dealt easily and knock $5M off the cap. But I guess that's not significant, but could be easy late season move to get under tax come the trade deadline by trading him to a contender for a late first or couple of second rounders sorta deal.

Regarding going over the tax - I think we need to say that because teams could try and poach KCP with a couple million extra if they thought our no-tax plan was a hard rule by Gores.

[DBC10]

You don't need to be under the lux tax until the end of the season.

IMO, if this team isn't comfortably in the playoff picture at deadline time, we could (and probably should) see a major strip down of the roster.

Right, moves don't have to be made right away, but it's looking like something will absolutely have to happen. I'm fine with/hoping for a stripdown of the roster soon, just pointing out the numbers now so everybody has a feel for what the situation is like.

Caldwell-Pope's contract is such a big wildcard at this point. Anything over $20 million in the first year is going to be really hard to deal with for the Pistons. I still don't think he gets that much, especially if Brooklyn and Philadelphia are out of his market with the moves they've made (less so for PHI), but who knows. Free agency is crazy.

I think the Nets are completely out of the KCP sweepstakes. D'Angelo and Lin will be their future backcourt for the duration of Lin's contract. Unless they're going to disrespect Lin and make him sixth man again like other teams done in the past.

I think Philly wants JJ Redick. They're interested for sure, but I think they'd rather not get cash strapped so quick with 4 potential studs that are going to want extension down the line.

[ChuckVanBrown]

It will be really interesting to see what we do with KCP. He won't get an offer under $18m, and I would feel really uneasy paying him big money when we already got large contracts that will be hard to move without taking on a bad contract or giving up assets.

If we struggle again next season with the same roster, good luck getting rid of Drummond, KCP, Reggie or Harris without getting something bad in return.

I'd like to keep KCP, but we're in a really tight spot. A lot of it was simply bad timing on when rookie deals were ending while the cap went up. I'm sure other teams would have done the same as us and Portland if they were on the same timeframe with their contracts. Still, we need to either hope this team improves greatly next season, or shave off some costs this summer. Hoping for improvement is a big risk that could limit our roster flexibility for years to come.

[Kilo]

^One good thing about KCP signing an offersheet elsewhere is it can only be four years. We match anything and then trade him in a year and we're only selling 3 yrs and $60M remaining.

It will be interesting to see who bids for him - Brooklyn seems most likely given you could pair him with D'Angelo Russell in the back court, backed up by Caris Lavert. KCP and Rondae Hollis Jefferson would make a strong defensive wing tandem as well.

[coordinator0]

^One good thing about KCP signing an offersheet elsewhere is it can only be four years. We match anything and then trade him in a year and we're only selling 3 yrs and $60M remaining.

It will be interesting to see who bids for him - Brooklyn seems most likely given you could pair him with D'Angelo Russell in the back court, backed up by Caris Lavert. KCP and Rondae Hollis Jefferson would make a strong defensive wing tandem as well.

After the trade I read that the Nets were happy that they could start building their foundation with Russell and LeVert. They're really high on him, and he's going to continue starting. Then there's Lin but he can play well off-ball too, like he did in Charlotte with Walker. I'm not sure Brooklyn actually is a good candidate to go after Caldwell-Pope.

I don't know how high they are on Hollis-Jefferson either. He's always been viewed as that role-playing defensive forward, and his offense hasn't progressed much. So with that in mind I think the Nets are far more likely to go after Otto Porter as a RFA than Caldwell-Pope. Now Kentavious could get an offer sheet after him if/when Washington matches and nobody else has given him one yet but I'm not seeing as clean of a fit as perceived previously.

Also, yeah I guess Morris would fit as a guy who can be dumped without giving up an asset. Just wasn't thinking quite that low in terms of significant salary. But that should be enough to get them under the tax so it would work.

I think the Nets are completely out of the KCP sweepstakes. D'Angelo and Lin will be their future backcourt for the duration of Lin's contract. Unless they're going to disrespect Lin and make him sixth man again like other teams done in the past.

I think Philly wants JJ Redick. They're interested for sure, but I think they'd rather not get cash strapped so quick with 4 potential studs that are going to want extension down the line.

Good point. Redick does make sense, especially if they have Korkmaz coming over. J.J. would be a good player to learn from for somebody in Furkan's mold. Then they also have Luwawu-Cabarrot, Anderson, and Stauskas to fill out the rest of the wing aside from Covington, Saric and Simmons (although they will play the four as well). Might not be room there for Caldwell-Pope either.

So if those two are out... then who? Atlanta might make some sense, but who knows what their priority is now. Can't think of anybody else off the top of my head but I'm sure there are others out there. Just maybe not coming in with huge offers. I still don't think Caldwell-Pope gets one anyways, but like I said earlier free agency is crazy.

[Kilo]

I think Phila trades for Danny Green when the Spurs need to get under the cap to make a big signing. I can't see Redick signing with a rebuilding team unless they really overpay him. JJ stays with the LAC unless they tear it down.

[Kilo]

Looking at teams with $20M+ in cap space - Dallas and Miami would make some sense. Dallas was pegged to spend their money on a point guard, but drafting Dennis Smith Jr likely means they spend it elsewhere now - but they also have Wes Mathews on the books for $17M as their starting SG. Carlisle would probably love KCP. Miami will go big game hunting initially, but if they strike out on the first wave (does Pat ever strike out, along with lure of South Beach) KCP might make sense for them but that means walking away from re-signing Dion Waiters who played well for them.

Maybe KCP doesn't get any offersheets afterall. Philly needs to spend money for the sake of doing so, but no need to overbid on free agents when they can use their cap space to take on shorter contracts from teams needing to shed salaries and get future picks in those deals as well.

Rich Paul is his agent, and he did play hardball with Tristan Thompson when he was negotiating with the Cavs. Paul will try to leverage the contracts of Crabbe and Oladipo to say we owe KCP his fair value. From the outset Piston negotiators will have to state flatly they consider those contracts overpays based on the salary cap rocketing up that off-season and has zero bearing on current present value.

[ChipButty]

In all likelihood, somebody is going to offer KCP a sizeable deal and if they really want him they may front load it. I can easily see the Nets offering something like this:

22
20.9
19.85
18.86

22 million in year one would create a big problem for us. Looks like a big mess to me.

[Kilo]

In all likelihood, somebody is going to offer KCP a sizeable deal and if they really want him they may front load it. I can easily see the Nets offering something like this:

22
20.9
19.85
18.86

22 million in year one would create a big problem for us. Looks like a big mess to me.

Looking at Philly's roster I still think he's a solid fit there. I think he'd be interested as well given what they've got built. I think the easily tradable Mook contract is our safety valve when it comes to luxury tax threshold with the potential KCP offer sheet matching.

[coordinator0]

In all likelihood, somebody is going to offer KCP a sizeable deal and if they really want him they may front load it. I can easily see the Nets offering something like this:

22
20.9
19.85
18.86

22 million in year one would create a big problem for us. Looks like a big mess to me.

Caldwell-Pope doesn't have to sign an offer sheet right away though. It's a very real, and probably likely, possibility that the Nets would make him that offer and then Kentavious and his agent go to the Pistons to see if they would match. And there's little doubt Detroit would. Might be a different structure, but the money wouldn't be different and the structure isn't a huge deal since contracts are guaranteed. Well, some aren't but in this scenario it would be.

Players aren't going to make it harder on their own teams than it needs to be if they want to be with them. We haven't heard about that not being the case for Caldwell-Pope so I would be stunned if he accepted an offer sheet like that.

Looking at teams with $20M+ in cap space - Dallas and Miami would make some sense. Dallas was pegged to spend their money on a point guard, but drafting Dennis Smith Jr likely means they spend it elsewhere now - but they also have Wes Mathews on the books for $17M as their starting SG. Carlisle would probably love KCP. Miami will go big game hunting initially, but if they strike out on the first wave (does Pat ever strike out, along with lure of South Beach) KCP might make sense for them but that means walking away from re-signing Dion Waiters who played well for them.

Maybe KCP doesn't get any offersheets afterall. Philly needs to spend money for the sake of doing so, but no need to overbid on free agents when they can use their cap space to take on shorter contracts from teams needing to shed salaries and get future picks in those deals as well.

Rich Paul is his agent, and he did play hardball with Tristan Thompson when he was negotiating with the Cavs. Paul will try to leverage the contracts of Crabbe and Oladipo to say we owe KCP his fair value. From the outset Piston negotiators will have to state flatly they consider those contracts overpays based on the salary cap rocketing up that off-season and has zero bearing on current present value.

I don't think Dallas is in play here. Even after drafting Smith Jr. it was reported they still want to go hard after Jrue Holiday, so they're probably more in the point guard market. Which is good for them since there will be a few out there and not very many teams looking to pay one. And the presence of Matthews certainly makes a difference. He's been bad, but that just means his contract is likely staying on the books.

Miami is interesting, although if they're high on Winslow then it's probably not going to happen. Supposedly they will be in on Gordon Hayward and I doubt the HEAT would pay for both. If they miss out on Gordon then that makes things interesting with Justise being able to play the three, although still not a great fit between him and Kentavious on the wing. I think Rudy Gay is their likely fallback option if (when) Hayward signs elsewhere.

I'm not particularly worried about Rich Paul. Thompson got a huge deal from Cleveland, but the LeBron factor was obviously in-play there too. That influence doesn't exist in Detroit. Now some team could still get stupid and throw Caldwell-Pope an offer sheet big enough he couldn't resist, but I still find that extremely unlikely. He's just not there yet.

[coordinator0]

With the recent moves I thought this deserved an update. Also more of a salary cap thread now, but here it is:

Andre Drummond = $23,775,506
Tobias Harris = $16,000,000
Reggie Jackson = $16,000,000
Jon Leuer = $10,497,319
Aron Baynes = $8,450,000 (cap hold)
Avery Bradley = $8,808,989
Boban Marjanovic = $7,000,000
Ish Smith = $6,000,000
Reggie Bullock = $5,639,111 (cap hold)
Josh Smith = $5,331,729 (dead money)
Stanley Johnson = $3,097,800
Luke Kennard = $2,759,280 (full 120% of rookie scale)
Henry Ellenson = $1,780,800
Beno Udrih = $1,471,382 (cap hold)
Michael Gbinije = $1,312,611 ($500,000 guaranteed until 7-15-17)
Langston Galloway
Eric Moreland

Total = $117,924,527
Cap Space = -$18,831,527 ($99,093,000 million salary cap)
Luxury Tax Room = $1,341,473 ($119,266,000 million luxury tax line)
Hard Cap Room = $7,341,473 ($125,266,000 apron)

Total w/o Cap Holds = $102,364,034

Keep in mind these numbers are without factoring in the contracts of Galloway and Moreland. Since the terms haven't been reported fully I'm hesitant to include them here. But if you look at that last number, the total without cap holds, the Pistons will be a good bit under the luxury tax after those two sign and Baynes, Bullock, and Udrih are renounced or sign elsewhere.

There's also some confusion about whether or not Gbinije was included with Morris in the Bradley trade, or is just being waived, so that's something to keep an eye on.

[CubicalLake7]

Once we renounced Baynes, Bullock and Udrih, do we have the capacity to use the balance of the MLE after getting Galloway and Bi-Annual Exemption on additional FAs?


Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception
$8,406,000
Used Langston Galloway (est. $7M)
Balance $1,406,000

Bi-Annual Exception
$3,290,000
Used $0
$3,290,000


Trade Exception
$874,636
Used $0
$874,636
Darrun Hilliard II trade with HOU
Expires 06/28/2018

[coordinator0]

Once we renounced Baynes, Bullock and Udrih, do we have the capacity to use the balance of the MLE after getting Galloway and Bi-Annual Exemption on additional FAs?


Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception
$8,406,000
Used Langston Galloway (est. $7M)
Balance $1,406,000

Bi-Annual Exception
$3,290,000
Used $0
$3,290,000


Trade Exception
$874,636
Used $0
$874,636
Darrun Hilliard II trade with HOU
Expires 06/28/2018

Yes, the Pistons will be able to use the balance of their non-taxpayer MLE (though it isn't much) and the BAE. I would expect the latter to be used to add someone soon.

[Kilo]

$4.7M isn't bad to land somebody with when Tyreke Evans signs for 3.3M for one year in Memphis.

[Moses ShamMoses]

Is Thomas Robinson worth a look at a cheap contract? He seems like a guy who is due for another shot.

[mattao313]

Luke Babbitt maybe?

[coordinator0]

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So:

Andre Drummond = $23,775,506
Tobias Harris = $16,000,000
Reggie Jackson = $16,000,000
Jon Leuer = $10,497,319
Aron Baynes = $8,450,000 (cap hold)
Avery Bradley = $8,808,989
Boban Marjanovic = $7,000,000
Langston Galloway = $6,666,667
Ish Smith = $6,000,000
Reggie Bullock = $5,639,111 (cap hold)
Josh Smith = $5,331,729 (dead money)
Stanley Johnson = $3,097,800
Luke Kennard = $2,759,280 (full 120% of rookie scale)
Henry Ellenson = $1,780,800
Beno Udrih = $1,471,382 (cap hold)
Michael Gbinije = $1,312,611 ($500,000 guaranteed until 7-15-17)
Eric Moreland

Total = $124,591,194
Cap Space = -$25,498,194 ($99,093,000 million salary cap)
Luxury Tax Room = $-5,325,194 ($119,266,000 million luxury tax line)
Hard Cap Room = $674,806 ($125,266,000 apron)

Total w/o Cap Holds = $109,030,701

It appears Gbinije was not part of the trade so he's still on the roster for now. Still have a week and a day before his contract guarantees though.

[coordinator0]

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Not a big surprise. The rights for Baynes, Bullock, or Udrih had to be renounced to fit in everything Detroit has done under the hard cap thus far. The Pistons are still going to be a ways away from it when it's all said and done but before this the team did have about $15.5 million in cap holds. So:

Andre Drummond = $23,775,506
Tobias Harris = $16,000,000
Reggie Jackson = $16,000,000
Jon Leuer = $10,497,319
Avery Bradley = $8,808,989
Boban Marjanovic = $7,000,000
Langston Galloway = $6,666,667
Ish Smith = $6,000,000
Reggie Bullock = $5,639,111 (cap hold)
Josh Smith = $5,331,729 (dead money)
Stanley Johnson = $3,097,800
Luke Kennard = $2,759,280 (full 120% of rookie scale)
Henry Ellenson = $1,780,800
Eric Moreland = $1,700,000
Beno Udrih = $1,471,382 (cap hold)
Michael Gbinije = $1,312,611 ($500,000 guaranteed until 7-15-17)

Total = $117,841,194
Cap Space = -$18,748,194 ($99,093,000 million salary cap)
Luxury Tax Room = $1,424,806 ($119,266,000 million luxury tax line)
Hard Cap Room = $7,424,806 ($125,266,000 apron)

Total w/o Cap Holds = $110,730,701

[Kilo]

Interesting they're so far still keeping Bullock's cap hold given the didn't give him a $3.3M QO to keep him a RFA. I wondered if we waived our Bird Rights to him if we didn't offer a QO, but I guess not. Still wouldn't like him as a SF here though and that's what we most need given our current roster make-up.

A one year deal for $4M for Bullock wouldn't be the worst thing as it would in the very least give us something to trade come December. We could then use the BAE on our 4th point guard.

[Pharaoh]

Pacers apparently have $19 mil in space...guessing the reporter actually means room under the tax line and not actually cap room though.

Any free agency news on Shabazz? Wolves made him unrestricted last I heard

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