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I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired.

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Re: I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired. 

Post#541 » by Snakebites » Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:16 pm

theBigLip wrote:
Drwho17 wrote:I was mostly still watching to watch Ausar T, but then they shut him down, I'm still watching but it is painful. I was hoping Duren would take a step, or I could see more Fontecchio or Grimes, but they are out too, this is craziness, I'm not sure they will win another game this year.


You’re probably right. I don’t expect any more wins this season either. With half the team injured/shutdown, it’s hard to expect anything different.

The team has given up. If we win another game it'll be on accident.
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Re: I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired. 

Post#542 » by vege » Fri Mar 29, 2024 9:37 pm

Cowology wrote:
NYPiston wrote:
vege wrote:Whoever is still defending this guy is a piece of **** person.

Whoever is still watching this team play is an imbecile.


If you think this guy is going to fix this mess, WAKE UP, stop being delusional.

Read on Twitter


Jesus dude, that's a tad harsh no? It's just a game.
Yeah, going too far vege.

I've asked this a half-dozen ways, so now let me be plain & clear; your constant anger is a problem on this board and you need to correct that. This is not cool.


Your opinion is irrelevant to me. You can just ignore what I post, sadly you can't add me to the foe list neither I can add you, but we can just ignore each other.

Posts are only relevant here, if people react to them, if not they'll just die, so I don't need anyone telling me what to post and how to post. If I am breaking any rules, a mod can message me and show me the rule I am breaking and deal with it accordingly, if not, go back to my first paragraph.
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Re: I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired. 

Post#543 » by vege » Fri Mar 29, 2024 9:39 pm

theBigLip wrote:
Cowology wrote:
NYPiston wrote:
Jesus dude, that's a tad harsh no? It's just a game.
Yeah, going too far vege.

I've asked this a half-dozen ways, so now let me be plain & clear; your constant anger is a problem on this board and you need to correct that. This is not cool.


Totally agree.

I don’t mind differing opinions but if one’s only take is that everyone is bad and everyone should be fired, and anyone who doesn’t think so is bad, I don’t see how that contributes to this board at all.


After your personal attack, I have absolutely no intention of have any interaction with you, so like I said, if I am breaking any rules, feel free to deal with it, if not, you're going to talk to a wall, because I will ignore you.
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Re: I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired. 

Post#544 » by theBigLip » Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:11 pm

vege wrote:
theBigLip wrote:
Cowology wrote:Yeah, going too far vege.

I've asked this a half-dozen ways, so now let me be plain & clear; your constant anger is a problem on this board and you need to correct that. This is not cool.


Totally agree.

I don’t mind differing opinions but if one’s only take is that everyone is bad and everyone should be fired, and anyone who doesn’t think so is bad, I don’t see how that contributes to this board at all.


After your personal attack, I have absolutely no intention of have any interaction with you, so like I said, if I am breaking any rules, feel free to deal with it, if not, you're going to talk to a wall, because I will ignore you.


I'm fine with that but I'm still going to do what's best for the board.
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Re: I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired. 

Post#545 » by He Filled it Up » Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:55 pm

theBigLip wrote:I think Weaver had a different plan than what you (and many others) expected. Our vets to start the season: BB, Burks, Harris, Morris. Three common characteristics: they can (or used to) shoot, (unfortunately) often injured, and all expired this season. Good attempt to get shooters, unfortunately they were injured and didn’t help much, but they didn’t impact our cap for this year.

Why do that? We weren’t winning anything this season and all the young guys needed playing time. We got that. Everyone has improved because of it. Maybe hard to watch at times but still the right move. Spending money on big free agents would have been premature last summer. If that was your expectation, then yes, Weaver blew it. But that wasn’t his goal.

I’m fine with giving Weaver the chance to use the cap space he created as the final step for the rebuild. IMHO Next year is judgement time for him and his plan.

If that was his thought process last summer then you have to fire him before the offseason. None of that came to fruition, and it caused tangible harm to the development of our young players. You can argue about how smart or dumb the plan was, but none of those guys were ready and they didn't contribute in any meaningful way. And it stalled any progress we had coming into the season. You can say the same about half of his deadline acquisitions too. And now there's really nothing to be hopeful for other than trusting the same guy to do better this time. Can't do it, he has to go. I'd fire Monty too, but it isn't my money.
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Re: I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired. 

Post#546 » by theBigLip » Fri Mar 29, 2024 11:50 pm

He Filled it Up wrote:
theBigLip wrote:I think Weaver had a different plan than what you (and many others) expected. Our vets to start the season: BB, Burks, Harris, Morris. Three common characteristics: they can (or used to) shoot, (unfortunately) often injured, and all expired this season. Good attempt to get shooters, unfortunately they were injured and didn’t help much, but they didn’t impact our cap for this year.

Why do that? We weren’t winning anything this season and all the young guys needed playing time. We got that. Everyone has improved because of it. Maybe hard to watch at times but still the right move. Spending money on big free agents would have been premature last summer. If that was your expectation, then yes, Weaver blew it. But that wasn’t his goal.

I’m fine with giving Weaver the chance to use the cap space he created as the final step for the rebuild. IMHO Next year is judgement time for him and his plan.


If that was his thought process last summer then you have to fire him before the offseason. None of that came to fruition, and it caused tangible harm to the development of our young players. You can argue about how smart or dumb the plan was, but none of those guys were ready and they didn't contribute in any meaningful way. And it stalled any progress we had coming into the season. You can say the same about half of his deadline acquisitions too. And now there's really nothing to be hopeful for other than trusting the same guy to do better this time. Can't do it, he has to go. I'd fire Monty too, but it isn't my money.


Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But it did come to fruition. Young guys got playing time and we kept our cap space.

I understand that you would have preferred to spend it all last year on long term deals. So we’d have overpaid for Fred Van Fleet and Cam Johnson, and we wouldn’t be able to make any significant moves this summer. That’s a plan, but IMHO, one that would keep us stuck in mediocrity.
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Re: I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired. 

Post#547 » by Cowology » Sat Mar 30, 2024 12:29 am

vege wrote:
Cowology wrote:
NYPiston wrote:
Jesus dude, that's a tad harsh no? It's just a game.
Yeah, going too far vege.

I've asked this a half-dozen ways, so now let me be plain & clear; your constant anger is a problem on this board and you need to correct that. This is not cool.


Your opinion is irrelevant to me. You can just ignore what I post, sadly you can't add me to the foe list neither I can add you, but we can just ignore each other.

Posts are only relevant here, if people react to them, if not they'll just die, so I don't need anyone telling me what to post and how to post. If I am breaking any rules, a mod can message me and show me the rule I am breaking and deal with it accordingly, if not, go back to my first paragraph.
Well, you are actually in violation, so if you really want to go this route we can. But remember.... I did ask nicely first.
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Re: I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired. 

Post#548 » by A_dub06 » Sun Mar 31, 2024 12:28 pm

One thing I will say in Weavers defends despite the fact he has to go regardless because he’s inept in his job, is that we have also had terrible lottery luck. Continually falling in the lottery has really hurt us, but Weaver not being able surround the younger players with vets and guys that allow them to develop compounds the issue. To wait so long to get some guys that can actually hit open 3’s is astounding.

I also thought the whole tanking thing was overstated and we didn’t need lottery reform in the first place. So many years we were bad and went on like a 7-3 run in our last 10 games playing against teams that were resting or tanking and we still tried to win lol. I really hope they revert the lottery to the old odds because our team as a prime example has been adversely affected by it.
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Re: I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired. 

Post#549 » by MortSahlfan » Sun Mar 31, 2024 12:58 pm

I wonder who would want to replace him.
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Re: I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired. 

Post#550 » by vege » Sun Mar 31, 2024 1:07 pm

MortSahlfan wrote:I wonder who would want to replace him.


It's not a bad situation if the new guy is given a white card and time (3-4 years). He can trade a few players for assets, and start from scratch, so there should be GMs interested in the job, as long as they talk to Gores and are aligned with him.

The only issue is he will likely have to work a few years with Monty, at least 2-3 more.

It's a terrible situation for Weaver, who had a chance to do something for several years, landed a #1 pick and several other lottery picks and he failed to assemble a NBA level roster in year 4. He is clearly inept, trying to juicy as much money out of Gores pockets as he can before he gets fired (for himself, his family and friends), and next offseason he will be pressure to do something, and he will do something dumb.

Zach LaVine/Miles Bridges level of disaster, which is 10x worse than Blake.
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Re: I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired. 

Post#551 » by JennetteMcCurdy » Sun Mar 31, 2024 4:03 pm

vege wrote:
Zach LaVine/Miles Bridges level of disaster, which is 10x worse than Blake.


This. Fire and replace him now before he spends the money. A new GM could use the cap space and sign some decent vets to tradeable contracts at the deadline. A new GM might also hold off on giving Cade a giant sum of money this summer. Troy won’t do either.
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Re: I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired. 

Post#552 » by Cowology » Sun Mar 31, 2024 4:43 pm

JennetteMcCurdy wrote:
vege wrote:
Zach LaVine/Miles Bridges level of disaster, which is 10x worse than Blake.


This. Fire and replace him now before he spends the money. A new GM could use the cap space and sign some decent vets to tradeable contracts at the deadline. A new GM might also hold off on giving Cade a giant sum of money this summer. Troy won’t do either.
Other than people questioning his overall decision making ability, what specifically makes you think he's going to hand out a LaVine type deal? The money spent on Wiseman/Bagley/Stew combined was kinda atrocious, but nothing crippling or honestly all that bad compared to most other teams. We're still flexible. If anything the Joe Harris type deals show he's had an aversion to spending poorly and he's been overly cautious with any long-term cap implications. He even came off Hayes/Bey shortly before their rookie contracts expired.

He could make a poor decision, but I don't think we've seen anything in FA signing history to make me think this is an automatic L. He's clearly been planning and prepping for... something. Maybe it was a mandate. Maybe he's just leaving room for future extensions. Maybe he's going to make an actual splash in FA and push the team forward. I really don't know, but I don't have any reason to think he's automatically going to go out and blow it. If anything I think it more likely we continue to do nothing.
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Re: I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired. 

Post#553 » by JennetteMcCurdy » Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:03 pm

Cowology wrote:Other than people questioning his overall decision making ability, what specifically makes you think he's going to hand out a LaVine type deal?


Three reasons:

(1). Weaver has been absolutely terrible at his job.

(2). There’s more pressure on Weaver to do something now than there ever has been.

(3). Weaver, like most people, has an ego.

If Weaver is around to make the decisions this summer, the amount of damage that can be done is significantly worse than the rest of his terrible decisions.

The good news for an incoming GM is that the slate is relatively clean. Cade, for example, could be traded for
multiple picks and maybe the new GM could be….. good?
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Re: I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired. 

Post#554 » by jars » Mon Apr 1, 2024 1:20 am

Cowology wrote:Other than people questioning his overall decision making ability, what specifically makes you think he's going to hand out a LaVine type deal?

Desperation to keep one of the 30 best and highest paying jobs in basketball. I didn't think we would make the Blake trade, but there was GM desperation.

I know this isn't the trade, but if the bulls offered us Lavine for Ivey, are you telling me Weaver wouldn't be able to talk himself into it? Lavine is objectively the better player *right now* AND Weaver gets a reprieve for the Ivey pick. Tell me that Lavine 'the 2 time dunk champion and 2 time all star' doesn't sound better on promotional material to the casual fan.
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Re: I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired. 

Post#555 » by theBigLip » Mon Apr 1, 2024 2:41 am

JennetteMcCurdy wrote:
Cowology wrote:Other than people questioning his overall decision making ability, what specifically makes you think he's going to hand out a LaVine type deal?


Three reasons:

(1). Weaver has been absolutely terrible at his job.

(2). There’s more pressure on Weaver to do something now than there ever has been.

(3). Weaver, like most people, has an ego.



Are these really reasons?

(1.) Has Weaver been terrible at cap space? No, he managed it well, and we don’t have any bad contracts. Worst would be Wiseman, and that’s expiring.

(2.) Agree there is pressure. That just means it’s time to act instead of punting cap space for another year. Isn’t that what you wanted last year? So isn’t this a good thing?

(3.) Most everyone in sports has an ego. If you don’t have a big one, you don’t get these jobs. Pat Riley has an ego. Does that prevent him from making deals?

IMHO, I just think this is the plan Weaver laid out to Gores, and this is the logical next step. We got $70M that should get us (fingers crossed) a couple of good shooting starters, and we get another (probably our last) top 5 pick. If we don’t get a significant bump in wins next year, sure, let’s fire Weaver. I’ll even drive him to the airport. But I’m willing to let him use the cap space he created.
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Re: I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired. 

Post#556 » by Crymson » Mon Apr 1, 2024 3:00 am

theBigLip wrote:I think Weaver had a different plan than what you (and many others) expected. Our vets to start the season: BB, Burks, Harris, Morris. Three common characteristics: they can (or used to) shoot, (unfortunately) often injured, and all expired this season. Good attempt to get shooters, unfortunately they were injured and didn’t help much, but they didn’t impact our cap for this year.


One of the beat writers has noted that the organization did not expect much out of Harris. His acquisition was primarily a means to gain draft capital, meaning that the front office effectively surrendered $20 million in cap space with an incomplete roster for the sake of two blah second-round picks. It would have been even less excusable if they'd been expecting him to contribute anything, because he was very plainly washed up already.

The roster had issues from top to bottom. It wasn't this bad of a roster -- the worst coaching the NBA has seen in a long time took that very inadequate roster and made it enormously worse -- but it had substantial gaps, and blowing $20 million in cap space for a couple of seconds was a characteristically brazen act by Weaver. He's constantly made questionable wagers throughout his time as general manager, and they have almost without exception failed. This time the wager was that Stewart would do fine at a position for which he was completely unsuited, Livers would be healthy and effective, and Ausar could provide good minutes despite coming into the league as a zero-level scorer. None of those bets had any solid logical basis to them.

His strategy certainly left the roster relying immensely upon Bojan and Burks for perimeter shooting. Very, very disproportionately so. There was no reliable volume perimeter shooting anywhere else. Another major flaw of the roster.

Why do that? We weren’t winning anything this season and all the young guys needed playing time. We got that. Everyone has improved because of it. Maybe hard to watch at times but still the right move. Spending money on big free agents would have been premature last summer. If that was your expectation, then yes, Weaver blew it. But that wasn’t his goal.


The idea is for young players to develop within a functional system. Thanks to Weaver's inability to resist prioritizing longshot reclamation projects and longshot development avenues over the acquisition of reliable role players, no young player on the team has had an opportunity to do that.

The most functional roster the Pistons have had during his tenure played in his first season. Despite lucking into the first pick in 2021 and selecting his ostensible franchise cornerstone, he spent that offseason from draft day morning onward going all-in on development without any effort whatsoever to provide Cade a roster which had anything even resembling the necessary fundamentals or put him into any position to succeed. That's been Weaver's way as a general manager. It's been risky, it's been brazen, and it's genuinely been an absolute failure -- precisely none of the players he bet on in the process panned out as he'd hoped (I'm not referring to Ivey, Duren, or Thompson in that evaluation).

Beyond that, the goal this season was to take a step forward, be more competitive, and win more games. Weaver built it with that in mind. He just did a very bad job of it.

I’m fine with giving Weaver the chance to use the cap space he created as the final step for the rebuild. IMHO Next year is judgement time for him and his plan.


I'm hoping he can do good things with that cap space, but he's put a lot of stock into a very devalued resource; offseason cap space is vanishingly less valuable than it was ten or even five years ago. It's much more effectively converted into minor draft assets than into genuinely valuable players. The upcoming free agency class is very weak, both in a vacuum and in terms of this particular roster's needs; and there are other teams with cap space as well, every one of them with a significantly brighter future than the Pistons currently enjoy.

I suspect that the front office's desperate hope -- or rather Weaver's, because Tellem and Stefanski seem to be 100% safe under Gores -- is that a trade can be made using the draft pick and that the return can be taken directly into cap space to reduce asset expenditure in sparing the other party the need to take on salary in return. It's a spare hope, and I don't care to think right now on what may panicked use may end up being made of that cap space should it fail to be realized.
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Re: I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired. 

Post#557 » by theBigLip » Mon Apr 1, 2024 5:26 am

Crymson wrote:
theBigLip wrote:I think Weaver had a different plan than what you (and many others) expected. Our vets to start the season: BB, Burks, Harris, Morris. Three common characteristics: they can (or used to) shoot, (unfortunately) often injured, and all expired this season. Good attempt to get shooters, unfortunately they were injured and didn’t help much, but they didn’t impact our cap for this year.


One of the beat writers has noted that the organization did not expect much out of Harris. His acquisition was primarily a means to gain draft capital, meaning that the front office effectively surrendered $20 million in cap space with an incomplete roster for the sake of two blah second-round picks. It would have been even less excusable if they'd been expecting him to contribute anything, because he was very plainly washed up already.

The roster had issues from top to bottom. It wasn't this bad of a roster -- the worst coaching the NBA has seen in a long time took that very inadequate roster and made it enormously worse -- but it had substantial gaps, and blowing $20 million in cap space for a couple of seconds was a characteristically brazen act by Weaver. He's constantly made questionable wagers throughout his time as general manager, and they have almost without exception failed. This time the wager was that Stewart would do fine at a position for which he was completely unsuited, Livers would be healthy and effective, and Ausar could provide good minutes despite coming into the league as a zero-level scorer. None of those bets had any solid logical basis to them.

His strategy certainly left the roster relying immensely upon Bojan and Burks for perimeter shooting. Very, very disproportionately so. There was no reliable volume perimeter shooting anywhere else. Another major flaw of the roster.

Why do that? We weren’t winning anything this season and all the young guys needed playing time. We got that. Everyone has improved because of it. Maybe hard to watch at times but still the right move. Spending money on big free agents would have been premature last summer. If that was your expectation, then yes, Weaver blew it. But that wasn’t his goal.


The idea is for young players to develop within a functional system. Thanks to Weaver's inability to resist prioritizing longshot reclamation projects and longshot development avenues over the acquisition of reliable role players, no young player on the team has had an opportunity to do that.

The most functional roster the Pistons have had during his tenure played in his first season. Despite lucking into the first pick in 2021 and selecting his ostensible franchise cornerstone, he spent that offseason from draft day morning onward going all-in on development without any effort whatsoever to provide Cade a roster which had anything even resembling the necessary fundamentals or put him into any position to succeed. That's been Weaver's way as a general manager. It's been risky, it's been brazen, and it's genuinely been an absolute failure -- precisely none of the players he bet on in the process panned out as he'd hoped (I'm not referring to Ivey, Duren, or Thompson in that evaluation).

Beyond that, the goal this season was to take a step forward, be more competitive, and win more games. Weaver built it with that in mind. He just did a very bad job of it.

I’m fine with giving Weaver the chance to use the cap space he created as the final step for the rebuild. IMHO Next year is judgement time for him and his plan.


I'm hoping he can do good things with that cap space, but he's put a lot of stock into a very devalued resource; offseason cap space is vanishingly less valuable than it was ten or even five years ago. It's much more effectively converted into minor draft assets than into genuinely valuable players. The upcoming free agency class is very weak, both in a vacuum and in terms of this particular roster's needs; and there are other teams with cap space as well, every one of them with a significantly brighter future than the Pistons currently enjoy.

I suspect that the front office's desperate hope -- or rather Weaver's, because Tellem and Stefanski seem to be 100% safe under Gores -- is that a trade can be made using the draft pick and that the return can be taken directly into cap space to reduce asset expenditure in sparing the other party the need to take on salary in return. It's a spare hope, and I don't care to think right now on what may panicked use may end up being made of that cap space should it fail to be realized.


Good post. It’s ok if we have different opinions on this.

I’m not sure what $20M in cap space was worth, but if we knew Harris was spent, then agreed, not a good haul. In spite of that, Morris, Burks and BB were injured early. We don’t go on the losing streak if they are all playing. Oh well.

As for cap space, I’ve mentioned it before. It’s not that the current free agent market is weak, but free agency has permanently and fundamentally changed. It used to be like shopping in a candy store. Lots of free agents every year. Now all the good players never hit free agency. There are a few good ones but most likely we are going to be making trades to get some starter quality players.

Having cap space this year has an advantage - this is the year the second apron. Not exactly sure how this plays out, but capped out, first round losing teams are going to need to shed some salary. Weaver shouldn’t even have to call them. They should be calling him.
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Re: I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired. 

Post#558 » by Spider156 » Mon Apr 1, 2024 5:27 am

theBigLip wrote:
He Filled it Up wrote:
theBigLip wrote:I think Weaver had a different plan than what you (and many others) expected. Our vets to start the season: BB, Burks, Harris, Morris. Three common characteristics: they can (or used to) shoot, (unfortunately) often injured, and all expired this season. Good attempt to get shooters, unfortunately they were injured and didn’t help much, but they didn’t impact our cap for this year.

Why do that? We weren’t winning anything this season and all the young guys needed playing time. We got that. Everyone has improved because of it. Maybe hard to watch at times but still the right move. Spending money on big free agents would have been premature last summer. If that was your expectation, then yes, Weaver blew it. But that wasn’t his goal.

I’m fine with giving Weaver the chance to use the cap space he created as the final step for the rebuild. IMHO Next year is judgement time for him and his plan.


If that was his thought process last summer then you have to fire him before the offseason. None of that came to fruition, and it caused tangible harm to the development of our young players. You can argue about how smart or dumb the plan was, but none of those guys were ready and they didn't contribute in any meaningful way. And it stalled any progress we had coming into the season. You can say the same about half of his deadline acquisitions too. And now there's really nothing to be hopeful for other than trusting the same guy to do better this time. Can't do it, he has to go. I'd fire Monty too, but it isn't my money.


Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But it did come to fruition. Young guys got playing time and we kept our cap space.

I understand that you would have preferred to spend it all last year on long term deals. So we’d have overpaid for Fred Van Fleet and Cam Johnson, and we wouldn’t be able to make any significant moves this summer. That’s a plan, but IMHO, one that would keep us stuck in mediocrity.

Don’t give Weaver too much credit, no that’s not fair. First of all, I agree with the playing time. Second of all, they didn’t improve because of it. Why? Morris Harris injured out all season basically for us, Bojan for the first 30 games burks 20 games with the elbow. Also he kept Killian Bagley livers 1 year too long and lost any value if they had any at all. It doesn’t make sense. None of them shoot why keep them? He got players and kept them for what he thought they could become (which never came to fruition), failed, TRIED AGAIN disposing a team completely all 11 players, managed to waive 8, then is forcing players NOW to sit out the season like Stewart over small injuries like pulled hamstring, Fontecchio’s toe boohoo, Grimes, sasses was out for a while too. It’s all ugly no matter how you look at it. They got their playing time but it was completely poor management. There’s only one way to look forward to next season imo and that’s not hoping Ivey Duren take the next step no, I’m already out on those guys. Keep draft Top 5 and flip these losers every 3 years until you get it right.
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Re: I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired. 

Post#559 » by Canadafan » Mon Apr 1, 2024 1:56 pm

theBigLip wrote:
Crymson wrote:
theBigLip wrote:I think Weaver had a different plan than what you (and many others) expected. Our vets to start the season: BB, Burks, Harris, Morris. Three common characteristics: they can (or used to) shoot, (unfortunately) often injured, and all expired this season. Good attempt to get shooters, unfortunately they were injured and didn’t help much, but they didn’t impact our cap for this year.


One of the beat writers has noted that the organization did not expect much out of Harris. His acquisition was primarily a means to gain draft capital, meaning that the front office effectively surrendered $20 million in cap space with an incomplete roster for the sake of two blah second-round picks. It would have been even less excusable if they'd been expecting him to contribute anything, because he was very plainly washed up already.

The roster had issues from top to bottom. It wasn't this bad of a roster -- the worst coaching the NBA has seen in a long time took that very inadequate roster and made it enormously worse -- but it had substantial gaps, and blowing $20 million in cap space for a couple of seconds was a characteristically brazen act by Weaver. He's constantly made questionable wagers throughout his time as general manager, and they have almost without exception failed. This time the wager was that Stewart would do fine at a position for which he was completely unsuited, Livers would be healthy and effective, and Ausar could provide good minutes despite coming into the league as a zero-level scorer. None of those bets had any solid logical basis to them.

His strategy certainly left the roster relying immensely upon Bojan and Burks for perimeter shooting. Very, very disproportionately so. There was no reliable volume perimeter shooting anywhere else. Another major flaw of the roster.

Why do that? We weren’t winning anything this season and all the young guys needed playing time. We got that. Everyone has improved because of it. Maybe hard to watch at times but still the right move. Spending money on big free agents would have been premature last summer. If that was your expectation, then yes, Weaver blew it. But that wasn’t his goal.


The idea is for young players to develop within a functional system. Thanks to Weaver's inability to resist prioritizing longshot reclamation projects and longshot development avenues over the acquisition of reliable role players, no young player on the team has had an opportunity to do that.

The most functional roster the Pistons have had during his tenure played in his first season. Despite lucking into the first pick in 2021 and selecting his ostensible franchise cornerstone, he spent that offseason from draft day morning onward going all-in on development without any effort whatsoever to provide Cade a roster which had anything even resembling the necessary fundamentals or put him into any position to succeed. That's been Weaver's way as a general manager. It's been risky, it's been brazen, and it's genuinely been an absolute failure -- precisely none of the players he bet on in the process panned out as he'd hoped (I'm not referring to Ivey, Duren, or Thompson in that evaluation).

Beyond that, the goal this season was to take a step forward, be more competitive, and win more games. Weaver built it with that in mind. He just did a very bad job of it.

I’m fine with giving Weaver the chance to use the cap space he created as the final step for the rebuild. IMHO Next year is judgement time for him and his plan.


I'm hoping he can do good things with that cap space, but he's put a lot of stock into a very devalued resource; offseason cap space is vanishingly less valuable than it was ten or even five years ago. It's much more effectively converted into minor draft assets than into genuinely valuable players. The upcoming free agency class is very weak, both in a vacuum and in terms of this particular roster's needs; and there are other teams with cap space as well, every one of them with a significantly brighter future than the Pistons currently enjoy.

I suspect that the front office's desperate hope -- or rather Weaver's, because Tellem and Stefanski seem to be 100% safe under Gores -- is that a trade can be made using the draft pick and that the return can be taken directly into cap space to reduce asset expenditure in sparing the other party the need to take on salary in return. It's a spare hope, and I don't care to think right now on what may panicked use may end up being made of that cap space should it fail to be realized.


Good post. It’s ok if we have different opinions on this.

I’m not sure what $20M in cap space was worth, but if we knew Harris was spent, then agreed, not a good haul. In spite of that, Morris, Burks and BB were injured early. We don’t go on the losing streak if they are all playing. Oh well.

As for cap space, I’ve mentioned it before. It’s not that the current free agent market is weak, but free agency has permanently and fundamentally changed. It used to be like shopping in a candy store. Lots of free agents every year. Now all the good players never hit free agency. There are a few good ones but most likely we are going to be making trades to get some starter quality players.

Having cap space this year has an advantage - this is the year the second apron. Not exactly sure how this plays out, but capped out, first round losing teams are going to need to shed some salary. Weaver shouldn’t even have to call them. They should be calling him.


Alright you 2....you're pretty knowledgeable fellas. We(you 2) need to find us these teams that will be possible luxury tax victims and Hopefully desperate enough where they need to dump players to us.
Who are these teams and what players are we lookin at??
Because my only solution is to throw an overpriced bag of money to Tyus Jones. Trade Ivey, our top5 and future picks to acquire Markkanen. And use remaining cap on some steady vets more for mentoring roles than actually playing
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Re: I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired. 

Post#560 » by theBigLip » Mon Apr 1, 2024 2:57 pm

Canadafan wrote:
theBigLip wrote:
Crymson wrote:
One of the beat writers has noted that the organization did not expect much out of Harris. His acquisition was primarily a means to gain draft capital, meaning that the front office effectively surrendered $20 million in cap space with an incomplete roster for the sake of two blah second-round picks. It would have been even less excusable if they'd been expecting him to contribute anything, because he was very plainly washed up already.

The roster had issues from top to bottom. It wasn't this bad of a roster -- the worst coaching the NBA has seen in a long time took that very inadequate roster and made it enormously worse -- but it had substantial gaps, and blowing $20 million in cap space for a couple of seconds was a characteristically brazen act by Weaver. He's constantly made questionable wagers throughout his time as general manager, and they have almost without exception failed. This time the wager was that Stewart would do fine at a position for which he was completely unsuited, Livers would be healthy and effective, and Ausar could provide good minutes despite coming into the league as a zero-level scorer. None of those bets had any solid logical basis to them.

His strategy certainly left the roster relying immensely upon Bojan and Burks for perimeter shooting. Very, very disproportionately so. There was no reliable volume perimeter shooting anywhere else. Another major flaw of the roster.



The idea is for young players to develop within a functional system. Thanks to Weaver's inability to resist prioritizing longshot reclamation projects and longshot development avenues over the acquisition of reliable role players, no young player on the team has had an opportunity to do that.

The most functional roster the Pistons have had during his tenure played in his first season. Despite lucking into the first pick in 2021 and selecting his ostensible franchise cornerstone, he spent that offseason from draft day morning onward going all-in on development without any effort whatsoever to provide Cade a roster which had anything even resembling the necessary fundamentals or put him into any position to succeed. That's been Weaver's way as a general manager. It's been risky, it's been brazen, and it's genuinely been an absolute failure -- precisely none of the players he bet on in the process panned out as he'd hoped (I'm not referring to Ivey, Duren, or Thompson in that evaluation).

Beyond that, the goal this season was to take a step forward, be more competitive, and win more games. Weaver built it with that in mind. He just did a very bad job of it.



I'm hoping he can do good things with that cap space, but he's put a lot of stock into a very devalued resource; offseason cap space is vanishingly less valuable than it was ten or even five years ago. It's much more effectively converted into minor draft assets than into genuinely valuable players. The upcoming free agency class is very weak, both in a vacuum and in terms of this particular roster's needs; and there are other teams with cap space as well, every one of them with a significantly brighter future than the Pistons currently enjoy.

I suspect that the front office's desperate hope -- or rather Weaver's, because Tellem and Stefanski seem to be 100% safe under Gores -- is that a trade can be made using the draft pick and that the return can be taken directly into cap space to reduce asset expenditure in sparing the other party the need to take on salary in return. It's a spare hope, and I don't care to think right now on what may panicked use may end up being made of that cap space should it fail to be realized.


Good post. It’s ok if we have different opinions on this.

I’m not sure what $20M in cap space was worth, but if we knew Harris was spent, then agreed, not a good haul. In spite of that, Morris, Burks and BB were injured early. We don’t go on the losing streak if they are all playing. Oh well.

As for cap space, I’ve mentioned it before. It’s not that the current free agent market is weak, but free agency has permanently and fundamentally changed. It used to be like shopping in a candy store. Lots of free agents every year. Now all the good players never hit free agency. There are a few good ones but most likely we are going to be making trades to get some starter quality players.

Having cap space this year has an advantage - this is the year the second apron. Not exactly sure how this plays out, but capped out, first round losing teams are going to need to shed some salary. Weaver shouldn’t even have to call them. They should be calling him.


Alright you 2....you're pretty knowledgeable fellas. We(you 2) need to find us these teams that will be possible luxury tax victims and Hopefully desperate enough where they need to dump players to us.
Who are these teams and what players are we lookin at??
Because my only solution is to throw an overpriced bag of money to Tyus Jones. Trade Ivey, our top5 and future picks to acquire Markkanen. And use remaining cap on some steady vets more for mentoring roles than actually playing


I’ll have more to post soon, but we might have to wait a bit since I think the real opportunities come when teams get beat in the playoffs. What would first round losing do to Minnesota? Phoenix? Clippers? The “all in” teams are going to have to take a serious look at their strategies if they don’t win a playoff series. Dumping high salaried players is certainly likely.

But for now, there are true free agents, even if popular opinion is they are staying with their current teams. I don’t want to overpay, but OG, Siakam, and Bridges are UFAs. I’ll have to create a real list when I get more time - there are certainly more middle tier UFAs we should consider, and then the trade market could be anyone. More to come…

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