2024 Free Agency - Who Would YOU Want To Get The Max Contract?

[Kalamazoo317]

There's an argument to be made that we're a better team with Stew as our starting 5 rather than Duren. If we're running Ausar at SF, we still have a lob threat in there for Cade and better spacing than with Ausar and Duren on the floor together. Stew + Ausar is defensively superior to Duren + Ausar as well.

[zeebneeb]

There's an argument to be made that we're a better team with Stew as our starting 5 rather than Duren. If we're running Ausar at SF, we still have a lob threat in there for Cade and better spacing than with Ausar and Duren on the floor together. Stew + Ausar is defensively superior to Duren + Ausar as well.

I just got done running the numbers on lineups.

Filters=more then two games played together. More then 50 minutes played together. (All lineups are with players currently on the team. Gone player lineups are filtered. The top lineup is the top lineup for all players though, regardless of team status. Very surprising)

Defense-95.7 7 games 54 minutes

Cade
Ivey
Tek
Stewart
Duren

Offense-119.1 7 games 54 minutes

Cade
Ivey
Tek
Stewart
Duren

Net rating-+23.5 7 games 54 minutes

Cade
Ivey
Tek
Stewart
Duren

All three Offense/Defense/Net is the same lineup

Second best lineups?

Defense-106.5 10 games 113 minutes

Cade
Ivey
Ausar
Tek
Duren

Offense-110.4 14 games 145 minutes
(Note. Replace Stewart in this lineup with Tek, and the offense is 110.3 10 games 113 minutes)

Cade
Ivey
Ausar
Stewart
Duren

Net rating-+3.8 10 games 113 minutes

Cade
Ivey
Ausar
Tek
Duren

It is pretty clear what the lineups should be, unless I'm reading the numbers wrong.

[bstein14]

By far our best five man unit together has been

Cade
Ivey
Tek
Stewart
Duren

But its also super limited minutes mostly just the past few games since Ausar went out and mostly against bad Charlotte and Toronto teams. 54 minutes mostly against two teams already in tank mode is not enough time to really call that 5 man unit elite. We'll see how they look between now and the end of the year.

In crunch time Monty has (at least once) gone with the Cade/Ausar/Tek/Stew/Duren lineup and I'm pretty sure that's our best five at the moment unless Ivey is hitting that particular night.

[zeebneeb]

By far our best five man unit together has been

Cade
Ivey
Tek
Stewart
Duren

But its also super limited minutes mostly just the past few games since Ausar went out and mostly against bad Charlotte and Toronto teams. 54 minutes mostly against two teams already in tank mode is not enough time to really call that 5 man unit elite. We'll see how they look between now and the end of the year.

In crunch time Monty has (at least once) gone with the Cade/Ausar/Tek/Stew/Duren lineup and I'm pretty sure that's our best five at the moment unless Ivey is hitting that particular night.

Ivey gets a lot of flack around here for his poor shooting as of late, but what people are failing to take into account, is that his penetration is breaking down defenses, allowing other players to be open. Ivey also crashes the boards a ton.

With a bunch of time, the best lineups for both offense and defense has been;

Cade
Ivey
Ausar
Tek
Duren

Monty absolutely has to stop running the abysmal all bench lineup, and actually should go with only three bench players at a time, maximum.

This team is nowhere near as bad as their record now stands. Mitigating majority bench units should be his goal.

What this also shows is that Monty is clearly not looking at the numbers. This is a huge no-no for modern coaches. This is why they have so many damn assistant coaches, and number guys these days.

The coaching staff is suspect at best.

[Crymson]

He’s not inept on offense. He is getting better at 3s and gets his share of rebounds when Duren and Thompson aren’t sucking them all in. Solid defensive player. And everything I’ve read he’s a real hard worker in practice and a good teammate. We extended him at a reasonable price. I think he’s a great fit in our rotation but not as a starter. That should get fixed in the offseason.

He's terrible on offense at power forward, because he's extremely limited in what he can provide. It's basically nothing beyond high-low sets with Duren and wide open standstill threes. He's so slow that he can't really participate in off-ball movement, and his handle is so bad that his attempts to attack off the dribble result in turnovers more often than not. He's a decent defender at the position but far worse than he is at center. It's beyond me how an actual NBA front office could not only truly believe that he's fit to play power forward but that he might be fit to start there -- and believe it so strongly as to not bother having a contingency in case it didn't work out. It's a position that emphasizes his athletic weaknesses and minimizes his strengths on defense.

He's limited at center on offense as well because he's poor on the roll and is a below-the-rim scorer, but he's less limited than he is at power forward.

[theBigLip]

He’s not inept on offense. He is getting better at 3s and gets his share of rebounds when Duren and Thompson aren’t sucking them all in. Solid defensive player. And everything I’ve read he’s a real hard worker in practice and a good teammate. We extended him at a reasonable price. I think he’s a great fit in our rotation but not as a starter. That should get fixed in the offseason.

He's terrible on offense at power forward, because he's extremely limited in what he can provide. It's basically nothing beyond high-low sets with Duren and wide open standstill threes. He's so slow that he can't really participate in off-ball movement, and his handle is so bad that his attempts to attack off the dribble result in turnovers more often than not. He's a decent defender at the position but far worse than he is at center. It's beyond me how an actual NBA front office could not only truly believe that he's fit to play power forward but that he might be fit to start there -- and believe it so strongly as to not bother having a contingency in case it didn't work out. It's a position that emphasizes his athletic weaknesses and minimizes his strengths on defense.

He's limited at center on offense as well because he's poor on the roll and is a below-the-rim scorer, but he's less limited than he is at power forward.

He’s never going to be a 20ppg scorer but we have enough of those on the team. He just needs to hit wide open 3s, keep the ball moving, and play good D. There are guys like him (Grant Williams for example) that are solid bench rotation players. That’s all I’m expecting from him.

[bstein14]

I'm honestly not sure starting lineups matter all that much for our last 17 games this season. One of Font, Ausar, or Stew is going to come off the bench and there are strengths and weaknesses for all. The 2nd unit needs Font's scoring the most so I see the fit there. Overall a 3 forward rotation of Stew/Font/Ausar makes a lot of sense if they can each get close to 32 MPG that's ideal IMO. For that to happen Monty has to cut the rotation to 9 guys tho. Time to cut out Fournier and focus on the 9 guys who might be back next season.

C Duren 33 / Wiseman 15
F Stew 32 / Font 32 / Ausar 32 (doesn't matter who starts could change on matchups)
G Ivey 32 / Grimes 16
G Cade 34 / Sasser 14

That would be the best/biggest change IMO as 7 of those guys are under contract for us next season already and Wiseman and Font are FAs who we may have interest in bringing back.

[vege]

There's an argument to be made that we're a better team with Stew as our starting 5 rather than Duren. If we're running Ausar at SF, we still have a lob threat in there for Cade and better spacing than with Ausar and Duren on the floor together. Stew + Ausar is defensively superior to Duren + Ausar as well.

I just got done running the numbers on lineups.

Filters=more then two games played together. More then 50 minutes played together. (All lineups are with players currently on the team. Gone player lineups are filtered. The top lineup is the top lineup for all players though, regardless of team status. Very surprising)

Defense-95.7 7 games 54 minutes

Cade
Ivey
Tek
Stewart
Duren

Offense-119.1 7 games 54 minutes

Cade
Ivey
Tek
Stewart
Duren

Net rating-+23.5 7 games 54 minutes

Cade
Ivey
Tek
Stewart
Duren

All three Offense/Defense/Net is the same lineup

Second best lineups?

Defense-106.5 10 games 113 minutes

Cade
Ivey
Ausar
Tek
Duren

Offense-110.4 14 games 145 minutes
(Note. Replace Stewart in this lineup with Tek, and the offense is 110.3 10 games 113 minutes)

Cade
Ivey
Ausar
Stewart
Duren

Net rating-+3.8 10 games 113 minutes

Cade
Ivey
Ausar
Tek
Duren

It is pretty clear what the lineups should be, unless I'm reading the numbers wrong.

The sample size is too small but one thing is super clear. Duren/Stew/Ausar together doesn't work.

And if you're watching the games it's clear we need an upgrade over Ivey.

[bstein14]

If you look at 3 man units that have played together 100+ minutes over the past 1.5 months(Since Feb 1st):

Best Net Rating = Stew + Font + Cade = 102 MP +22.4 rating

That trio also has the best offensive rating and the best defensive rating.

The 2nd best net rating is Cade + Font + Ausar @ +6.3 in 155 MP.
The 2nd best defense is also Cade + Font + Ausar @ 155 MP.
The 2nd best offense is Cade + Stew + Ivey in 198 MP.
------------------

People talk about Stewart and our offense needing more, but interestingly enough when looking at 3 man pairings since Feb 1st our best TS% as a team has been when Stew has been playing.

Stew + Cade + Thompson 62.4 TS% in 135 minutes played together in 6 games
Stew + Cade + Ivey 62.3 TS% in 198 minutes played together in 8 games
Stew + Cade + Font 61.4 TS% in 102 minutes played together in 8 games
Stew + Ivey + Thompson 61.2 TS% in 121 minutes played together in 6 games
Stew + Ivey + Duren 60.9 TS% in 174 minutes played together in 8 games
Stew + Cade + Duren 60.9 TS% in 182 minutes played together in 8 games

[bstein14]

If we trade our pick for a starter, and we sign a starter in FA... then only one of Font/Stew/Ivey/Ausar gets to start with the two new guys and Cade/Duren. I think that's a very realistic scenario that could play out. Of course its also possible we package one of Ausar or Ivey with our pick for a starter.

Duren / Stew
NEW / Ausar
NEW / Font
Ivey / Grimes
Cade / Sasser

or

Duren / Wiseman
NEW / Stew
Ausar / Font
NEW / Ivey
Cade / Sasser

or

Duren / Wiseman
NEW / Stew
Font / Ausar
New / Ivey
Cade / Sasser

[Kalamazoo317]

There's an argument to be made that we're a better team with Stew as our starting 5 rather than Duren. If we're running Ausar at SF, we still have a lob threat in there for Cade and better spacing than with Ausar and Duren on the floor together. Stew + Ausar is defensively superior to Duren + Ausar as well.

I just got done running the numbers on lineups.

Filters=more then two games played together. More then 50 minutes played together. (All lineups are with players currently on the team. Gone player lineups are filtered. The top lineup is the top lineup for all players though, regardless of team status. Very surprising)

Defense-95.7 7 games 54 minutes

Cade
Ivey
Tek
Stewart
Duren

Offense-119.1 7 games 54 minutes

Cade
Ivey
Tek
Stewart
Duren

Net rating-+23.5 7 games 54 minutes

Cade
Ivey
Tek
Stewart
Duren

All three Offense/Defense/Net is the same lineup

Second best lineups?

Defense-106.5 10 games 113 minutes

Cade
Ivey
Ausar
Tek
Duren

Offense-110.4 14 games 145 minutes
(Note. Replace Stewart in this lineup with Tek, and the offense is 110.3 10 games 113 minutes)

Cade
Ivey
Ausar
Stewart
Duren

Net rating-+3.8 10 games 113 minutes

Cade
Ivey
Ausar
Tek
Duren

It is pretty clear what the lineups should be, unless I'm reading the numbers wrong.

Not sure why you quoted me and then didn't post a single lineup with Stew as the 5 and Duren on the bench for comparison.

[Crymson]

He’s never going to be a 20ppg scorer but we have enough of those on the team. He just needs to hit wide open 3s, keep the ball moving, and play good D. There are guys like him (Grant Williams for example) that are solid bench rotation players. That’s all I’m expecting from him.

It's not about him being a high-volume scorer, it's about him being able to functionally participate in an offense. Grant Williams is a sprinter (and an expert handler) by comparison with Stewart. Defenses know that Stewart is going to do squat in terms of off-ball movement and is too slow to accelerate into open lanes off the catch, and his handle is so bad that he's highly unlikely to do anything positive off the dribble anyway.

There isn't a single starting power forward who is anywhere near as slow on the run in the halfcourt as he is. I can't be bothered to look at bench forwards, but I doubt there are many (if any) who are as slow as he is.

[vege]

If you look at 3 man units that have played together 100+ minutes over the past 1.5 months(Since Feb 1st):

Best Net Rating = Stew + Font + Cade = 102 MP +22.4 rating

That trio also has the best offensive rating and the best defensive rating.

The 2nd best net rating is Cade + Font + Ausar @ +6.3 in 155 MP.
The 2nd best defense is also Cade + Font + Ausar @ 155 MP.
The 2nd best offense is Cade + Stew + Ivey in 198 MP.
------------------

People talk about Stewart and our offense needing more, but interestingly enough when looking at 3 man pairings since Feb 1st our best TS% as a team has been when Stew has been playing.

Stew + Cade + Thompson 62.4 TS% in 135 minutes played together in 6 games
Stew + Cade + Ivey 62.3 TS% in 198 minutes played together in 8 games
Stew + Cade + Font 61.4 TS% in 102 minutes played together in 8 games
Stew + Ivey + Thompson 61.2 TS% in 121 minutes played together in 6 games
Stew + Ivey + Duren 60.9 TS% in 174 minutes played together in 8 games
Stew + Cade + Duren 60.9 TS% in 182 minutes played together in 8 games

That's too small of a sample size. 1 good game from Ivey changes everything.

Coaches usually say they will experiment something for 20 games. So we should wait for a bigger sample size.

But I will maintain what I said. Ivey does not fit, and he has been bad.

I mean, this guy went undrafted in 2022. Look early in the video his BBIQ on defense, and compare him to Ivey, especially on fast breaks, it's laughable.

Watch on YouTube

Sure, Keon Ellis is 24, but his skillset is good. He is a good shooter, high bbiq player and good defender.

Ivey is clueless on defense, can't shoot, need the ball on his hands to do something, is always trying to find someone to pass the ball after he jumps resulting in a ton of TOs. We need someone better. Ivey would be fine as a scorer off the bench, he is not a starter and he does not fit with Cade, regardless of what those small sample size numbers show.

[Mr Peanut]

Not that I want to see it happen, but if we strike out on whoever our top choices are I could see Weaver kicking the tires on a guy he has been rumored to be interested to in the past, De'Andre Hunter. Atlanta may be looking to dump more salary so it wouldn't take too much to get him.

He's played 65% of his minutes at PF this season and has been coming off the bench more recently (and has missed some games to injury which seems to be a recurring theme throughout his career).

In 29 MPG he's averaging 15.5/3.7/1.3 on 48% FG and 42% 3PT (4.9 attempts). He's owed 70M over the next 3 seasons.

[bstein14]

Grayson Allen is playing 33.8 MPG for the Suns this season and shooting the lights out at 48.3% from deep. He's 28 years old and likely has one good four year stretch in him. He'd be a fine signing at slightly above MLE $ if the Suns don't want to go too deep in the tax hitting that 2nd apron.

He's a starting level player who can space the floor..... if not him, I'd also be happy with Tyus Jones. We need to move Ivey to the bench and add another guard who can consistently knock down 3 pointers for us with the starters.


Font is a great first step but we are best if Font comes off the bench and we get another shooter for the starting lineup... we really just need more shooting all around to help the pieces we already have.

[A_dub06]

Tobias Harris currently shooting 33% from 3 for the season. At age 31 I wouldn’t be offering him a big contract. I honestly think outside of signing miles bridges there’s nobody available and/or realistic we could get that’s worth giving money too.

We should be totally re-tooling this off-season and trading either one or both of Duren and Ivey. Duren brings nothing that relates to winning basketball or impactful play and if we hold him too long it his bad defence will become too obvious and hurt his value. I still believe there’s an all-star trapped in Ivey but I don’t think he will ever become that ok this team and his fit with Cade is bad. Trade Ivey and Duren for Anfernee Simons and Trey Murphy, then draft Sarr. Man would that be a fun team!

[Canadafan]

Grayson Allen is playing 33.8 MPG for the Suns this season and shooting the lights out at 48.3% from deep. He's 28 years old and likely has one good four year stretch in him. He'd be a fine signing at slightly above MLE $ if the Suns don't want to go too deep in the tax hitting that 2nd apron.

He's a starting level player who can space the floor..... if not him, I'd also be happy with Tyus Jones. We need to move Ivey to the bench and add another guard who can consistently knock down 3 pointers for us with the starters.


Font is a great first step but we are best if Font comes off the bench and we get another shooter for the starting lineup... we really just need more shooting all around to help the pieces we already have.

Grayson and Tyus would both be good for us. Then trade ivey with our pick for a starting forward

[theBigLip]

Grayson Allen is playing 33.8 MPG for the Suns this season and shooting the lights out at 48.3% from deep. He's 28 years old and likely has one good four year stretch in him. He'd be a fine signing at slightly above MLE $ if the Suns don't want to go too deep in the tax hitting that 2nd apron.

He's a starting level player who can space the floor..... if not him, I'd also be happy with Tyus Jones. We need to move Ivey to the bench and add another guard who can consistently knock down 3 pointers for us with the starters.


Font is a great first step but we are best if Font comes off the bench and we get another shooter for the starting lineup... we really just need more shooting all around to help the pieces we already have.

Grayson and Tyus would both be good for us. Then trade ivey with our pick for a starting forward

Grayson Allen wouldn’t get the same looks he has now if he were on the Pistons. I’d expect that 3pt percentage to go down a bit.

[zeebneeb]

Grayson Allen is playing 33.8 MPG for the Suns this season and shooting the lights out at 48.3% from deep. He's 28 years old and likely has one good four year stretch in him. He'd be a fine signing at slightly above MLE $ if the Suns don't want to go too deep in the tax hitting that 2nd apron.

He's a starting level player who can space the floor..... if not him, I'd also be happy with Tyus Jones. We need to move Ivey to the bench and add another guard who can consistently knock down 3 pointers for us with the starters.


Font is a great first step but we are best if Font comes off the bench and we get another shooter for the starting lineup... we really just need more shooting all around to help the pieces we already have.

Grayson and Tyus would both be good for us. Then trade ivey with our pick for a starting forward

Grayson Allen wouldn’t get the same looks he has now if he were on the Pistons. I’d expect that 3pt percentage to go down a bit.

What your talking about is the Pistons tax. 48%=34% here.

I kid, but not really.

In any event, surrounding Cade with shooters is the way to go. ALL 3 positions minus C has to be league average minimum.

Cade
Allen
Tek
Magical unicorn
Duren

That will be a good damn team, in theory.

After so many years of being just **** useless as entertainment, I won't know what to do with myself if the Pistons start winning games. It's been 9 damn years since the Pistons have had a winning record, and in 16 **** years, it's the only one!

I mean, holy crap already. This is the make or break season for the whole front office, and Gores. I want a 30+ win team next year, period.

[Crymson]

Grayson and Tyus would both be good for us. Then trade ivey with our pick for a starting forward

Tyus is intent upon starting. He's not going to sign here to play backup point guard.

Trading Ivey now would almost undoubtedly mean selling low.