League wide cap space this summer

[theBigLip]

Now that the trade deadline is done, next order of business (post draft) is what are we going to do w our cap space? And who is our competition? Things can change on these numbers but I got this from the Athletic this morning:

Cap space:
Detroit Pistons ($58 million to $64 million)
Orlando Magic ($47 million to $69 million)
Philadelphia 76ers ($44 million to $64 million)
Utah Jazz ($39 million to $44 million)
Toronto Raptors ($23 million to $46 million)
Oklahoma City Thunder ($35 million)
Charlotte Hornets (up to $35 million, possibly over the cap), San Antonio Spurs ($21 million)

These are the teams that could also go after Bridges.

[theBigLip]

Another interesting note from the article:

That is a lot of money to spend by a credible number of franchises, but think a little bit about how limited things get after them: Only around five teams will be able to sign someone with the projected $12.9 million nontaxpayer MLE, while more than one-third of the league would not be even able to use the projected $5.2 million taxpayer MLE to add new talent.

So do we do a big splash? Or be patient and pick up MLE level guys on a discount?

[Piston Pete]

Give OG $40 mil per

Give Patrick Williams $17 mil per


Ivey / Sasser
Cade / Grimes
Williams / Ausar
OG / Fettuccine
Duren / Stewart
+ a top-5 pick.

[bstein14]

Another interesting note from the article:

That is a lot of money to spend by a credible number of franchises, but think a little bit about how limited things get after them: Only around five teams will be able to sign someone with the projected $12.9 million nontaxpayer MLE, while more than one-third of the league would not be even able to use the projected $5.2 million taxpayer MLE to add new talent.

So do we do a big splash? Or be patient and pick up MLE level guys on a discount?

Knowing Weaver he will have it all spent within 5 minutes of FA starting... He likes to aggressively attack FA. That said, the smart move would be to go after one guy and if we don't get him at the price we want we should wait it out a bit.

A lot of teams can't add even MLE $ FAs without jumping into the luxury tax (Minny, Atalanta, and more) and some of those teams ownerships are not ok with going into the luxury tax. Overall cap space could be more valuable this year than in recent years. Weaver should work on going out and getting one starter and then make sure he has enough cap space left over to capitalize on the squeeze of the market.

The cap projection was already lowered $1 million if it were to drop another $1 million it could really put a squeeze on some of these teams that were toeing the line.

[theBigLip]

Another interesting note from the article:

That is a lot of money to spend by a credible number of franchises, but think a little bit about how limited things get after them: Only around five teams will be able to sign someone with the projected $12.9 million nontaxpayer MLE, while more than one-third of the league would not be even able to use the projected $5.2 million taxpayer MLE to add new talent.

So do we do a big splash? Or be patient and pick up MLE level guys on a discount?

Knowing Weaver he will have it all spent within 5 minutes of FA starting... He likes to aggressively attack FA. That said, the smart move would be to go after one guy and if we don't get him at the price we want we should wait it out a bit.

A lot of teams can't add even MLE $ FAs without jumping into the luxury tax (Minny, Atalanta, and more) and some of those teams ownerships are not ok with going into the luxury tax. Overall cap space could be more valuable this year than in recent years. Weaver should work on going out and getting one starter and then make sure he has enough cap space left over to capitalize on the squeeze of the market.

The cap projection was already lowered $1 million if it were to drop another $1 million it could really put a squeeze on some of these teams that were toeing the line.

Agreed, seems like the right strategy. We should get at least one starter (OG or Bridges?) And if we want some vets to fill in the roster, it looks like we will have a lot of opportunities to get a few inexpensively.

[Patrick27]

Give OG $40 mil per

Give Patrick Williams $17 mil per


Ivey / Sasser
Cade / Grimes
Williams / Ausar
OG / Fettuccine
Duren / Stewart
+ a top-5 pick.

If we actually pry OG away from New York, the Knicks would be embarrassed by spending assets on OG, then losing him in free agency. I expect New York will match any number, including the max.

I still think we should do it because both outcomes are good for us. If we steal OG without giving up anything but cap space, that's a huge win for us. If we don't get OG and instead force New York to overpay him in addition to the assets they've already given up, then that hinders them when the 'real' free agents hit the market in summer 2025.

[Patrick27]

Another interesting note from the article:

That is a lot of money to spend by a credible number of franchises, but think a little bit about how limited things get after them: Only around five teams will be able to sign someone with the projected $12.9 million nontaxpayer MLE, while more than one-third of the league would not be even able to use the projected $5.2 million taxpayer MLE to add new talent.

So do we do a big splash? Or be patient and pick up MLE level guys on a discount?

Knowing Weaver he will have it all spent within 5 minutes of FA starting... He likes to aggressively attack FA. That said, the smart move would be to go after one guy and if we don't get him at the price we want we should wait it out a bit.

A lot of teams can't add even MLE $ FAs without jumping into the luxury tax (Minny, Atalanta, and more) and some of those teams ownerships are not ok with going into the luxury tax. Overall cap space could be more valuable this year than in recent years. Weaver should work on going out and getting one starter and then make sure he has enough cap space left over to capitalize on the squeeze of the market.

The cap projection was already lowered $1 million if it were to drop another $1 million it could really put a squeeze on some of these teams that were toeing the line.

His whole tenure, Weaver hasn't spent hardly anything. Why do you believe he'll go full rumspringa in this free agency??

He's made some small acquisitions each year, but the most money he's spent was on Bagley at 12.5M per year.

The far more likely outcome is that he barely spends anything, aside from taking on bad contracts for 2nd round picks.

He's a build-through-the-draft guy, and flyer-on-draft-busts guy. He's not a big free agency guy.

EDIT: Bagley was a RFA and he probably overpaid. The big Weaver free agency move was Jerami Grant - I had forgotten about that one.

[bstein14]

Give OG $40 mil per

Give Patrick Williams $17 mil per


Ivey / Sasser
Cade / Grimes
Williams / Ausar
OG / Fettuccine
Duren / Stewart
+ a top-5 pick.

If we actually pry OG away from New York, the Knicks would be embarrassed by spending assets on OG, then losing him in free agency. I expect New York will match any number, including the max.

I still think we should do it because both outcomes are good for us. If we steal OG without giving up anything but cap space, that's a huge win for us. If we don't get OG and instead force New York to overpay him in addition to the assets they've already given up, then that hinders them when the 'real' free agents hit the market in summer 2025.

He is an unrestricted FA but you are correct. He's likely to take the highest money offer. He's had a bit of a rough start in NY.

[theBigLip]

Another interesting note from the article:

So do we do a big splash? Or be patient and pick up MLE level guys on a discount?

Knowing Weaver he will have it all spent within 5 minutes of FA starting... He likes to aggressively attack FA. That said, the smart move would be to go after one guy and if we don't get him at the price we want we should wait it out a bit.

A lot of teams can't add even MLE $ FAs without jumping into the luxury tax (Minny, Atalanta, and more) and some of those teams ownerships are not ok with going into the luxury tax. Overall cap space could be more valuable this year than in recent years. Weaver should work on going out and getting one starter and then make sure he has enough cap space left over to capitalize on the squeeze of the market.

The cap projection was already lowered $1 million if it were to drop another $1 million it could really put a squeeze on some of these teams that were toeing the line.

His whole tenure, Weaver hasn't spent hardly anything. Why do you believe he'll go full rumspringa in this free agency??

He's made some small acquisitions each year, but the most money he's spent was on Bagley at 12.5M per year.

The far more likely outcome is that he barely spends anything, aside from taking on bad contracts for 2nd round picks.

He's a build-through-the-draft guy, and flyer-on-draft-busts guy. He's not a big free agency guy.

I think this is by design. Weaver wanted to keep cap space as long as possible while the young core develops. You don’t get a chance to blow your wad every year - you have one shot at it.

[bstein14]

Another interesting note from the article:



So do we do a big splash? Or be patient and pick up MLE level guys on a discount?

Knowing Weaver he will have it all spent within 5 minutes of FA starting... He likes to aggressively attack FA. That said, the smart move would be to go after one guy and if we don't get him at the price we want we should wait it out a bit.

A lot of teams can't add even MLE $ FAs without jumping into the luxury tax (Minny, Atalanta, and more) and some of those teams ownerships are not ok with going into the luxury tax. Overall cap space could be more valuable this year than in recent years. Weaver should work on going out and getting one starter and then make sure he has enough cap space left over to capitalize on the squeeze of the market.

The cap projection was already lowered $1 million if it were to drop another $1 million it could really put a squeeze on some of these teams that were toeing the line.

His whole tenure, Weaver hasn't spent hardly anything. Why do you believe he'll go full rumspringa in this free agency??

He's made some small acquisitions each year, but the most money he's spent was on Bagley at 12.5M per year.

The far more likely outcome is that he barely spends anything, aside from taking on bad contracts for 2nd round picks.

He's a build-through-the-draft guy, and flyer-on-draft-busts guy. He's not a big free agency guy.

His first year in FA he spent all his money within minutes landing Jerami Grant and Mason Plumlee. The next year he moved Plumlee so he could immediately sign Kelly Olynyk to 3 years $37.

He used up all our cap space the following year resigning Bagley and taking on all the Knicks trash before FA even startered.
He used up all our cap space last year before FA started taking on Harris and Monte Morris.

He has a history of very quickly and aggressively using up all his cap space he hasn't sat on any space like we've seen OKC or SA be patient with it.

[Patrick27]

Knowing Weaver he will have it all spent within 5 minutes of FA starting... He likes to aggressively attack FA. That said, the smart move would be to go after one guy and if we don't get him at the price we want we should wait it out a bit.

A lot of teams can't add even MLE $ FAs without jumping into the luxury tax (Minny, Atalanta, and more) and some of those teams ownerships are not ok with going into the luxury tax. Overall cap space could be more valuable this year than in recent years. Weaver should work on going out and getting one starter and then make sure he has enough cap space left over to capitalize on the squeeze of the market.

The cap projection was already lowered $1 million if it were to drop another $1 million it could really put a squeeze on some of these teams that were toeing the line.

His whole tenure, Weaver hasn't spent hardly anything. Why do you believe he'll go full rumspringa in this free agency??

He's made some small acquisitions each year, but the most money he's spent was on Bagley at 12.5M per year.

The far more likely outcome is that he barely spends anything, aside from taking on bad contracts for 2nd round picks.

He's a build-through-the-draft guy, and flyer-on-draft-busts guy. He's not a big free agency guy.

His first year in FA he spent all his money within minutes landing Jerami Grant and Mason Plumlee. The next year he moved Plumlee so he could immediately sign Kelly Olynyk to 3 years $37.

He used up all our cap space the following year resigning Bagley and taking on all the Knicks trash before FA even startered.
He used up all our cap space last year before FA started taking on Harris and Monte Morris.

He has a history of very quickly and aggressively using up all his cap space he hasn't sat on any space like we've seen OKC or SA be patient with it.

Those are fair points - you are correct. I had forgotten about those moves - it feels like ancient history!

[Snakebites]

Yeah, that’s actually a lot of competition, especially for some of the smaller fish, and that’s in addition to competition from teams resigning guys and mid level exceptions.

I’ve always been a bit pessimistic about us being able to make good use of cap space.

We may need to give some pretty absurd one year contracts to get to the minimum. We’ve talked about guys like Bridges and Harris, but are we the only teams that want them (setting aside a discussion about whether we should want them)?

[bstein14]

For sure, If I could sports book bet on whether or not the Pistons will have $15+ million in cap space on July 10th I would easily bet $1000 that we will not and I'd feel great about that bet. Weaver has always quickly and aggressively used up all the cap space he has had whether its signing FAs or making trades.

[Snakebites]

I’ll also add: I don’t see us using all of the space on long term deals. If our young guys are successful (and that is an IF, but it’s clearly one we’re banking on), our salary will naturally inflate as extensions/new contracts kick in.

[BDM22]

Another interesting note from the article:



So do we do a big splash? Or be patient and pick up MLE level guys on a discount?

Knowing Weaver he will have it all spent within 5 minutes of FA starting... He likes to aggressively attack FA. That said, the smart move would be to go after one guy and if we don't get him at the price we want we should wait it out a bit.

A lot of teams can't add even MLE $ FAs without jumping into the luxury tax (Minny, Atalanta, and more) and some of those teams ownerships are not ok with going into the luxury tax. Overall cap space could be more valuable this year than in recent years. Weaver should work on going out and getting one starter and then make sure he has enough cap space left over to capitalize on the squeeze of the market.

The cap projection was already lowered $1 million if it were to drop another $1 million it could really put a squeeze on some of these teams that were toeing the line.

His whole tenure, Weaver hasn't spent hardly anything. Why do you believe he'll go full rumspringa in this free agency??

Because Cade's extension kicks in the following year and that will significantly limit flexibility after this season. It's basically now or never.

He was delaying the "make or break" offseason for a long time, but you really can't at this point. The mostly important thing is to sign guys on movable contracts. Jerami Grant and Olynyk were movable deals. One got us Duren and the other got us Bojan and eventually Grimes. If you don't land the perfect fit in FA, you need them to still have value in the trade market, but you probably need to acquire players regardless. The can kicking is over.

[bstein14]

I’ll also add: I don’t see us using all of the space on long term deals. If our young guys are successful (and that is an IF, but it’s clearly one we’re banking on), our salary will naturally inflate as extensions/new contracts kick in.

For sure a reason to have at least flat contracts, but maybe even decreasing. Stew got a flat $15 million per.

For FAs that aren't our own, we're allowed to decrease by 5% I believe. These declining contracts not only help with luxury tax issues once we have to start giving extensions to guys on rookie deals, but also can make the contracts more tradable/appealing if we look to move them down the road.

24-25: S40 million
25-26: $38 million
26-27: $36 million
27-28: $34 million
Total 4 years $148 million (OG?)
----------
24-25: S30.0 million
25-26: $28.5 million
26-27: $27.0 million
27-28: $25.5 million
Total 4 years $111 million (Tobias Harris or Miles Bridges?)
-----------
24-25: S20 million
25-26: $19 million
26-27: $18 million
27-28: $17 million
Total 4 years $74 million (Malik Monk or KCP?)

C Duren / Stew
F Tobias / Ausar
F Cade / Fontecchio
G Monk / Grimes
G Ivey / Sasser

[FloridaMan78]

I’ll also add: I don’t see us using all of the space on long term deals. If our young guys are successful (and that is an IF, but it’s clearly one we’re banking on), our salary will naturally inflate as extensions/new contracts kick in.

Checking Sportrac, it’s showing the luxury tax threshold is 189 mil in 2025. That’s when Cades new contract should kick in. Looks like luxury tax raises 5-10 mil every year. I think Gores will spend up to the threshold, avoiding going over into the tax aprons.

Ivey, Ausar, Duren, Sasser all still on rookie deals.
Totals to about 80 mil with them and Cade.
That leaves over 100 mil in space.

We have the room. This is the last year we will.

[whitehops]

might be an unpopular opinion but i think the pistons should trade their pick for someone like lauri markannen or another quality vet.

not sure if that'd be enough to get lauri but we'd still have about $40M to work with.

[GreekAlex]

might be an unpopular opinion but i think the pistons should trade their pick for someone like lauri markannen or another quality vet.

not sure if that'd be enough to get lauri but we'd still have about $40M to work with.

Only if there’s an extension in place.

[BDM22]

might be an unpopular opinion but i think the pistons should trade their pick for someone like lauri markannen or another quality vet.

not sure if that'd be enough to get lauri but we'd still have about $40M to work with.

0% chance we can get a Lauri caliber player for this pick. You're talking Cade and maybe more (given Ainge's history) for Lauri. Elite 50/40/90 stretch 4 that is 26 years old and has been an all-star in the west which is stacked with talent.

I think the trade value of the pick isn't going to be very high, so I'd be down to just use it if we land in an area that guarantees a Risachier or Cody Williams. (I'd also offer Cade for Lauri assuming we can re-negotiate and extend, but I know that's unpopular).