Time to face reality about Cade

[Snakebites]

2020 was just a huge brick. Still owe a pick to the Knicks for that season as well. If we had one huge hit there everything is diff.

The other is all the possible trades that were rumored we didnt do. Obv the most known one was SGA+their high lotto pick for pick 1. That said who knows how many trade ups or downs we could done that made this team better.

Some people say you "never trade the 1 pick" but sometimes it has happened. Ainge made out trading from 1 to 3 turning Fultz into Tatum+. Webber was traded in the deal for Penny and picks that was a win.

Dropping down from #1 to take Tatum+ instead of Fultz is great and all, though the "+" in that deal turned into Romeo Langford, so if we're talking 20/20 hindsight it would have also been fine to just take Tatum #1 lol.

Ainge also had selected Desmond Bane in the 2020 draft and he then traded him away for 2 future 2nds. Point is, there is no exact science here. Every GM's has massively whiffed on guys in the draft. It's the one area that I think Weaver has been at least average at (mostly solid picks with 1 big miss). He struggles a lot more with roster construction, free agency, and asset management.

I think Weaver is just average at best as a GM. Hes not above replacement level whatsoever. NBA GM is a coveted high paid job their isnt many that get to do that. For me what hes done isnt good enough.

That said I take it we wont fire him though I would. So in that case he better do something this offseason. Overpaying Tobias and drafting a rookie setting us uo for another maybe 20 wins isnt good enough.

I really would fire him now. I think its easier to find a good GM now when we have the resources to improve. A big reason we got stuck with a mid GM like Weaver was due to us being such a bad job being SVG wrecked us.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again.

The mistakes Weaver has made are such that any individual one can be excused/forgiven/rationalized.

Four years in I think it’s fair to just look at results though.

[buzzkilloton]

Cade is the prince that was promised.

“You look at what Cade is doing right now — he’s one of the hottest players in the second half of the season,” Mavericks coach Jason Kidd said Saturday before Dallas’ 142-124 victory over the Pistons, a game in which Cunningham scored 33 points, dished out 10 assists and grabbed nine rebounds. “You can see he’s shooting the ball at a high rate, he’s scoring the ball, he’s being aggressive, and you can see he’s comfortable with what he’s trying to get to.”

Since the All-Star break, Cunningham has been playing at an All-NBA level. The 22-year-old is averaging 25.8 points, 7.9 assists and 5.8 rebounds per game while shooting 47.6 percent from 3 on 7.0 attempts per game. In those nine games, Cunningham has a true shooting percentage of 62.5, which ranks fourth among players who have a usage rate of at least 25 percent and also have played nine games in that span. He’s only behind Denver’s Nikola Jokić, Oklahoma City’s Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Dallas’ Luka Dončić.

And while Kidd highlighted Cunningham’s play since the All-Star break, he’s been playing at a high level since the calendar turned to 2024. Over his last 21 games, Cunningham is averaging 21.2 points, 8.0 assists and 4.4 rebounds while shooting 39.8 percent from 3.


https://theathletic.com/5330155/2024/03/11/cade-cunningham-pistons-film-breakdown/

[bstein14]

This would be the ideal 5 year extension for me just to give us a little bit of a safety since we've been so bad the past few years.

25-26 NBA estimated cap $150 so 25% is $37.5 million starting out.

25-26: $33.5 guaranteed + $2 million All-Star + $2 million for making playoffs (Cade's 5th season age 24)
26-27: $36.5 guaranteed + $2 mil AS + $2 mil PO (Year 6 Age 25)
27-28: $39.5 mil + $2 mil AS + $2 mil PO (Age 26)
28-29: $42.5 mil + $2 mil AS + $2 mil PO (Age 27)
29-30: $45.5 mil + $2 mil AS + $2 mil PO (Age 28)
Total 5 years $197.5 million guaranteed with $20 million in performance incentives. Essentially he gets about 10% of the contract as performance based incentives half for making the AS game and half for the team making the playoffs.

[zeebneeb]

Nice article from James Edwards at the Athletic, breaking down what I've been posting about(numbers).

https://theathletic.com/5330155/2024/03/11/cade-cunningham-pistons-film-breakdown/

Snippets;

"Since the All-Star break, Cunningham has been playing at an All-NBA level. The 22-year-old is averaging 25.8 points, 7.9 assists and 5.8 rebounds per game while shooting 47.6 percent from 3 on 7.0 attempts per game. In those nine games, Cunningham has a true shooting percentage of 62.5, which ranks fourth among players who have a usage rate of at least 25 percent and also have played nine games in that span. He’s only behind Denver’s Nikola Jokić, Oklahoma City’s Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Dallas’ Luka Dončić."

Heady company for sure. Continued;

"Since Feb. 22, Cunningham is averaging 7.0 3-point attempts per game, a number he never really sniffed at any point in his career prior. Going deeper, though, Cunningham has been averaging 2.8 pull-up 3s per game in that span and is converting on 48 percent of those. In his first two seasons — reminder that his second only lasted 12 games due to injury — Cunningham averaged 2.0 or more pull-up 3s per game each year. But he never shot better than 30 percent on those attempts."

And his bread and butter;

"Lastly — and if you’ve followed Cunningham’s career to this point, this isn’t a surprise —he continues to be one of the NBA’s best midrange shooters. On the season, per NBA.com, Cunningham is converting on 47.8 percent of his 3.9 midrange shots per night. That ranks eighth in the league when factoring in players who take a minimum of 3.0 midrange shots per game.

Since Feb. 22, though, Cunningham has gone to another planet in that area of the court. Over his last nine games, he is converting on 53.6 percent of his 3.1 midrange attempts per game. That ranks sixth in the NBA during that span."


Click the link as he has video clips breaking it down further. The whole article is a good read.

Cade is really blossoming at the right time for us Piston fans, as he brings hope during a season of hell.

[zeebneeb]

Cade is the prince that was promised.

“You look at what Cade is doing right now — he’s one of the hottest players in the second half of the season,” Mavericks coach Jason Kidd said Saturday before Dallas’ 142-124 victory over the Pistons, a game in which Cunningham scored 33 points, dished out 10 assists and grabbed nine rebounds. “You can see he’s shooting the ball at a high rate, he’s scoring the ball, he’s being aggressive, and you can see he’s comfortable with what he’s trying to get to.”

Since the All-Star break, Cunningham has been playing at an All-NBA level. The 22-year-old is averaging 25.8 points, 7.9 assists and 5.8 rebounds per game while shooting 47.6 percent from 3 on 7.0 attempts per game. In those nine games, Cunningham has a true shooting percentage of 62.5, which ranks fourth among players who have a usage rate of at least 25 percent and also have played nine games in that span. He’s only behind Denver’s Nikola Jokić, Oklahoma City’s Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Dallas’ Luka Dončić.

And while Kidd highlighted Cunningham’s play since the All-Star break, he’s been playing at a high level since the calendar turned to 2024. Over his last 21 games, Cunningham is averaging 21.2 points, 8.0 assists and 4.4 rebounds while shooting 39.8 percent from 3.


https://theathletic.com/5330155/2024/03/11/cade-cunningham-pistons-film-breakdown/

I glossed right over your post, damn it.

[buzzkilloton]

Cade is the prince that was promised.

“You look at what Cade is doing right now — he’s one [/b]


https://theathletic.com/5330155/2024/03/11/cade-cunningham-pistons-film-breakdown/

I glossed right over your post, damn it.

Great minds think alike!

[Kalamazoo317]

His three point shooting has been looking great, his drives have been looking better, his turnovers are down, and his free throws and defensive effort are up. He’s doing everything we’ve been wanting him to do. Now we just hope it sustains.

[Rip32]

It's easy to put up numbers on a losing/lousy team. I want to see the consistent performance when the stakes are high! Also, can you motivate your guys to play better???

[MotownMadness]

Hopefully he doesn't start off next year in a big slump. Playing catch-up with his stats on the second half of the season is selling him short.

[MotownMadness]

It's easy to put up numbers on a losing/lousy team. I want to see the consistent performance when the stakes are high! Also, can you motivate your guys to play better???

Everyone always says that but as a fan of a losing team i wish guys would just avg 20ppg because.

[bstein14]

I didn't look at the stats last night, but watching it felt like Cade was missing a ton (he ended up 2-10 from deep) but even on an off night shooting he finished with 22 points on 20 attempts with 8 assists, 2 TOs and 6 rebounds. That's a below average game from him but it wasn't horrible because he created for others and didn't turn it over.

Earlier this year he if he had a game like that it would be with 6 assists 5 TOs and no trips to the FT line and the overall impact would have been much worse.

[Invictus88]

I didn't look at the stats last night, but watching it felt like Cade was missing a ton (he ended up 2-10 from deep) but even on an off night shooting he finished with 22 points on 20 attempts with 8 assists, 2 TOs and 6 rebounds. That's a below average game from him but it wasn't horrible because he created for others and didn't turn it over.

Earlier this year he if he had a game like that it would be with 6 assists 5 TOs and no trips to the FT line and the overall impact would have been much worse.

He was +20. I heard he was throwing up a bunch of junk at the end when the game was no longer in doubt.

[joedumars1]

I didn't look at the stats last night, but watching it felt like Cade was missing a ton (he ended up 2-10 from deep) but even on an off night shooting he finished with 22 points on 20 attempts with 8 assists, 2 TOs and 6 rebounds. That's a below average game from him but it wasn't horrible because he created for others and didn't turn it over.

Earlier this year he if he had a game like that it would be with 6 assists 5 TOs and no trips to the FT line and the overall impact would have been much worse.

He was +20. I heard he was throwing up a bunch of junk at the end when the game was no longer in doubt.

Yeah from box score watching seemed cade took
The lead, in the 4th I think they got within 8? Then Cade took it further away when he subbed in, that’s how the game seemed to me anyway lol

[zeebneeb]

I didn't look at the stats last night, but watching it felt like Cade was missing a ton (he ended up 2-10 from deep) but even on an off night shooting he finished with 22 points on 20 attempts with 8 assists, 2 TOs and 6 rebounds. That's a below average game from him but it wasn't horrible because he created for others and didn't turn it over.

Earlier this year he if he had a game like that it would be with 6 assists 5 TOs and no trips to the FT line and the overall impact would have been much worse.

He was +20. I heard he was throwing up a bunch of junk at the end when the game was no longer in doubt.

He had a few grenades thrown to him at the last second as well.

Cade controlled the game every second he was on the floor. The numbers for this game, do not tell the tale, even if they were pretty good.

The way he's been handling double/triple teams has dramatically improved, but this game he took his time with it, and made the right pass. He ran the offense, and calmed the team down, scoring when he needed to. Charlotte had no answer.

[buzzkilloton]

It's easy to put up numbers on a losing/lousy team. I want to see the consistent performance when the stakes are high! Also, can you motivate your guys to play better???

Cades not in a optimal situation here. Imagine if Ausar was actually a shooter and we had a 3+D guard or even just a elite 3pt shooter in the backcourt. Suddenly those double teams they put on Cade would get them in big trouble as he QBs the offense with open shooters everywhere. When we have that kinda roster hes going to really level up into our franchise player.

[Snakebites]

Cade is the prince that was promised.

Oooh look. An ASOIAF reference in 2024.

[jars]

I was listening to the Bill Simmons annual worst contracts in the NBA podcast the other day and as I was listening, all I could think was that Cade is going to be on this list in the next couple of years.... and it's not all his fault.

Firstly, he is almost definitely getting the max. No decent #1 overall pick in recent memory hasn't, regardless of whether they have lived up to being a #1 pick. If we get him even $1 below a max contract, Weaver should spend the day asking for High-5s around the office (which I assume he does most days anyway as a self esteem boost).

Lets be honest - Overall Cade is a really good, solid player who has a lot of strengths and not that many weaknesses, but isn't really elite-elite at much. In this aspect, he reminds me a bit of a smaller, modern version of Andre Igoudala. Almost every team in the league would love to have him.

But Weaver's roster construction currently relies on him making his weaknesses into strengths (i.e. becoming a high level shooter, becoming an elite P&R guard). Put that alongside the draft picks made which don't really mesh well with Cade's skillset right now despite the fact that they all seemed like the right pick in the moment and were all given the thumbs up by most draft 'experts'.

The question that really came up for me is: "How is this situation with Cade significantly different the a young Andrew Wiggins in Minnesota?" and the only answer I came up with was that their team kind of made more sense on paper with KAT and Jimmy "I'M HIM" Butler. Am I being too pessimistic?

[bstein14]

Cade's last 5 games...

18.4 PPG 39.6% from the floor and 18.5% from deep on 5.4 attempts per game. He's still passing well (8.4 assists) and doing decent with TOs (3.0 per game) but his shooting has really fallen off.

[Laimbeer]

I wonder what our evaluation and potential contract would be if Cade were drafted #15 and playing like this?

[theBigLip]

I wonder what our evaluation and potential contract would be if Cade were drafted #15 and playing like this?

Good question. Certainly not a max.

Some posters have lost their minds that we’ve paid too much for marginal players, the worst being Bagley. But those are all smaller contracts w less of a long term impact and easier to move on from.

This summer will be different. I expect Weaver to sign his 3 biggest contracts to date - two new starters (sign or trade for them) and Cades extension. Need to nail all of them. Mistakes this summer will linger for years.