Time to face reality about Cade

[buzzkilloton]

It’s similar in that Cade probably isn’t worth a max at this stage but we have no choice but to do it anyway.

I agree Cade is better than Drummond. The reasons he’s not worth it are completely different.

It’s also fair to say his impact on winning is only better than Dre’s IF he’s healthy. And that’s proving to be a massive IF.

C

I’m concerned both by the number of games he misses and how much playing at less than 100 percent seems to impact his level of play.

I tried to find the article that has some Holiday quotes from his next season coming back from this surgery. I posted in the Cade injury thread last year but I dont want to search that hard.

Yeah its pretty obv when hes not at 100% hes no where near the same player. He came into the season rusty off the injury and struggled then he started playing well. Then injury report into struggles to being shut down. Comes back healthy after ASB plays the best ball we've seen from him and then hits the injury report and is back to being bad into shut down again.

Its still important that we can see when hes healthy hes capable of being a really good player. Hes a better player today then his rookie year hes a sharp player that will continue to improve. Like I have no doubts that Cade is going to be a above average 3pt shooter in the future. His FT% has always been good he was a good shooter in college I think next season healthy he breaks into that 38%+ range. The playmaking has stepped up alot and when we get a spaced floor with shooters hes going to be even better.

[mattao313]

Still looking like a D'Angelo Russell level player imo. Would not extend him and he'll have to be great next season to satisfy me.

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[zeebneeb]

Still looking like a D'Angelo Russell level player imo. Would not extend him and he'll have to be great next season to satisfy me.

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So what's the end game in this? Let the #1 overall pick just walk?

Holy crap. You think the team is in a bad spot now, I don't know how the franchise recovers from that.

Trading him will get you pennies on the dollar if you signal your not extending him.

Honestly though? Maybe your right. The team is in the worst spot in its history, save for when it was moved from Fort Wayne. Its so bad, I don't even know how to fix this hell hole, save for just reseting the whole damn thing all over again.

Forget what I said. Burn the whole thing down again.

[bstein14]

Usually guys who are worthy max players are able to elevate a bad team to at least medicore 30 wins range... we haven't seen that from Cade, but Cade also has had a "worse bad team" than most.

As I've mentioned before, I would be OK giving him the "max" on an extension this summer if 10% of the contract (about $5 million per year) is based on the team making the playoffs. At least that way he's only getting $45 million a year if we're a lottery team instead of $50 million per year for us to be awful still.

[GreekAlex]

Usually guys who are worthy max players are able to elevate a bad team to at least medicore 30 wins range... we haven't seen that from Cade, but Cade also has had a "worse bad team" than most.

As I've mentioned before, I would be OK giving him the "max" on an extension this summer if 10% of the contract (about $5 million per year) is based on the team making the playoffs. At least that way he's only getting $45 million a year if we're a lottery team instead of $50 million per year for us to be awful still.

If I was Cade, I’d demand assistant GM privileges if the team wanted that playoff clause in the contract.

[mattao313]

Still looking like a D'Angelo Russell level player imo. Would not extend him and he'll have to be great next season to satisfy me.

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So what's the end game in this? Let the #1 overall pick just walk?

Holy crap. You think the team is in a bad spot now, I don't know how the franchise recovers from that.

Trading him will get you pennies on the dollar if you signal your not extending him.

Honestly though? Maybe your right. The team is in the worst spot in its history, save for when it was moved from Fort Wayne. Its so bad, I don't even know how to fix this hell hole, save for just reseting the whole damn thing all over again.

Forget what I said. Burn the whole thing down again.

How? Would you max D'Angelo Russell? I sure wouldn't and some team would probably drink the kool-aid and we can sign and trade him for something decent if he doesn't improve next season.

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[zeebneeb]

Still looking like a D'Angelo Russell level player imo. Would not extend him and he'll have to be great next season to satisfy me.

Sent from my SM-A528B using RealGM mobile app

So what's the end game in this? Let the #1 overall pick just walk?

Holy crap. You think the team is in a bad spot now, I don't know how the franchise recovers from that.

Trading him will get you pennies on the dollar if you signal your not extending him.

Honestly though? Maybe your right. The team is in the worst spot in its history, save for when it was moved from Fort Wayne. Its so bad, I don't even know how to fix this hell hole, save for just reseting the whole damn thing all over again.

Forget what I said. Burn the whole thing down again.

How? Would you max D'Angelo Russell? I sure wouldn't and some team would probably drink the kool-aid and we can sign and trade him for something decent if he doesn't improve next season.

Sent from my SM-A528B using RealGM mobile app

Point is, it doesn't matter. The team seems nixed. Gets loads of top picks, all seem to be mid. Go out and hire a coach, pay him the max, he sucks terribly. GM is clueless with an absolute fetish for centers, and the owner is out to lunch.

At some point, and I don't care what product your peddling, customers just kinda walk away. Pretend the Pistons are an oven you just bought. No one is going to wait for the service tech to fix the oven door which heats up to 500° for 5 years. You bail.

This team is a giant pile of steaming turds, with seemingly no way out. Kobayashi Maru man.

[theBigLip]

I might have to just leave and come back next year. Reading some of this is mind boggling.

I’m not sure if we have to pay Cade the max but he’s the best player on our team by far. You get him signed. Maybe you trade him later but you secure the asset for now.

There are a lot of things to fix before replacing Cade. We all know we need more shooters. Fontecchio was a nice add but we need 2 or 3 more guys that can consistently hit a shot. We got the money. I don’t see how that doesn’t improve this summer.

[Mr Peanut]

Still looking like a D'Angelo Russell level player imo. Would not extend him and he'll have to be great next season to satisfy me.

Sent from my SM-A528B using RealGM mobile app

So what's the end game in this? Let the #1 overall pick just walk?

Holy crap. You think the team is in a bad spot now, I don't know how the franchise recovers from that.

Trading him will get you pennies on the dollar if you signal your not extending him.

Honestly though? Maybe your right. The team is in the worst spot in its history, save for when it was moved from Fort Wayne. Its so bad, I don't even know how to fix this hell hole, save for just reseting the whole damn thing all over again.

Forget what I said. Burn the whole thing down again.

How? Would you max D'Angelo Russell? I sure wouldn't and some team would probably drink the kool-aid and we can sign and trade him for something decent if he doesn't improve next season.

Sent from my SM-A528B using RealGM mobile app

That line of thinking is irrelevant because he's not D'Angelo Russell. Go and look at Russell's stats in his third season and compare to Cade's and you'll quickly realize that.

[buzzkilloton]

Read on Twitter

[Spider156]

This post gets dumber and dumber each time I read it.

I have no idea why this post even exists as if Cade ever player poorly all season. He’s had an incredible season specially after the all star break. If you’re looking for efficiency you need to understand when on a winning team a player is automatically more efficient because his teammates are better and make him better. When your teammates are missing shots that gets contagious. Same the other way around.

The man deserves the maximum extension, period.

This is literally just like Lamelo’s situation and now we’re just waiting for a Brandon Miller to either develop or draft in my opinion. We need to get lucky and have a breakout player. Guy like Grimes or Fontecchio need to become even better than whatever they are now. These things happen all the time and every year they’re usually listed in the top 10 MIP list. Seeing how young we are, anyone can breakout at any time. Just hasn’t happened yet haha. But we DID see Cade breakout this year, so pay the man.

[breezypeezy]

DeAngelo Russell level MY ASS!
This whole thread is a fail.

Cade is fine hes just surrounded by pansies.

[vege]

DeAngelo Russell level MY ASS!
This whole thread is a fail.

Cade is fine hes just surrounded by pansies.

Cade is good, but it's not an absurd to quention him. He's in a bad situation, and he improved individually however, his efficiency is still bad and his TOs are still an issue. He got better at both, but they're still not at an acceptable level. He is inconsistent as a shooter, but the real problem is his defense and his effort level on defense.

Cade can be a lockdown defender when he want to, but he has been lazy on that side of the floor. Maybe with better teammates and a smaller load on offense, he will be better there, but this season, his defense has been brutal.

I am a big fan of Cade's game, and it's not even a question, Cade will get the max, but people need to stop giving players a pass, there are things Cade need to get better at, and that's not on the coach, or the team, that's on him.

I have 0 doubt Cade will be at least an all star. He is good. I would take Cade over Banchero 10 out of 10 times for example and in a redraft I'd still take Cade at #1.

[zeebneeb]

The question is;

Can Weaver build around Cade? He seems utterly incompetent at his job. He keeps grabbing non-shooting players to surround Cade with.

It's baffling.

Its the reason I wanted Murray. Monk. Mathurin.

Instead he grabs Duren. Ivey. Ausar. Keeps Wiseman.

His absolute top priority should be a player either like Naz Reid, JJJ, or Markkanen, PERIOD.

He can outright sign Monk to out next to Cade at the 2 slot. I don't give two **** about the bench. Shooters, shooters, shooters. Can shoot standing still, can create their own shot from the three. All shooters. Give Cade maximum space to operate, just like Luka. This should be obvious to a man running a team in the 2020's, but it apparently is not.

I will only accept Duren(non-shooter) at the 5, but his defense has to vastly improve, or, and this might be edgy, pair him with a shot-blocking 4, who can also shoot the 3.

Stewart is under no circumstances, the answer at the power forward position. Use him in a trade with other assets, to improve that spot.

Stewart/Ivey/top pick for Markkanen. If its not enough, give them Tek back as well, I DONT CARE. Then outright sign Monk.

Cade
Monk
Ausar(Hate this if he doesn't develope a shot)
Markkanen
Duren

If you can get Markkanen without Tek?

Cade
Monk
Tek
Markkanen
Duren

That team is going. To. Win. Games.

If Danny wants more, give him anything he wants except for Cade, and Duren. Fill out the bench with whatever you want. Shooters galore surrounding Cade. Would be a sight to behold.

[Drwho17]

I might have to just leave and come back next year. Reading some of this is mind boggling.

I’m not sure if we have to pay Cade the max but he’s the best player on our team by far. You get him signed. Maybe you trade him later but you secure the asset for now.

There are a lot of things to fix before replacing Cade. We all know we need more shooters. Fontecchio was a nice add but we need 2 or 3 more guys that can consistently hit a shot. We got the money. I don’t see how that doesn’t improve this summer.

He's the best player the Pistons have had since Grant Hill, probably already top 5 (Thomas/Lanier/Hill/Bing/Dumars?). Pistons are 100% extending him if he will accept it. Only concern about him for me is the injury history, and as the season goes by that lessons for me, since it's pretty much the same injury that he had for years that required surgery to repair. His shooting and efficiency have improved, he's really good, don't judge him based on the team he has now.

[Spider156]

DeAngelo Russell level MY ASS!
This whole thread is a fail.

Cade is fine hes just surrounded by pansies.

Cade is good, but it's not an absurd to quention him. He's in a bad situation, and he improved individually however, his efficiency is still bad and his TOs are still an issue. He got better at both, but they're still not at an acceptable level. He is inconsistent as a shooter, but the real problem is his defense and his effort level on defense.

Cade can be a lockdown defender when he want to, but he has been lazy on that side of the floor. Maybe with better teammates and a smaller load on offense, he will be better there, but this season, his defense has been brutal.

I am a big fan of Cade's game, and it's not even a question, Cade will get the max, but people need to stop giving players a pass, there are things Cade need to get better at, and that's not on the coach, or the team, that's on him.

I have 0 doubt Cade will be at least an all star. He is good. I would take Cade over Banchero 10 out of 10 times for example and in a redraft I'd still take Cade at #1.

It’s pretty easy answer for this. People forget Cade is also very young not just his teammates. He’s also missed a second year. He’s basically finishing up his second year now. I saw a significant difference of this year Cade and rookie year. I mean they’re two different players. First year he was finishing a lot more at the end of games. He was more clutch. This year he’s got a drive and strength he didn’t have his first year. He’s just bigger and he’s manhandling double teams better, he’s also shooting better. On defense I agree he needs work but imo it’s not his fault. Everybody knows no dunks or layups happened against the Going To Work Pistons because of who? Ben Wallace. I’ll give you another example, look what happened to the Twolves defense once they got Gobert. The reason Cade’s defense looks bad is because he has no paint protection behind him. Duren has been abysmal on defense this year. Then there’s Ivey don’t get me started. We all know Ausar deserves to be around Cade, we all know we potentially got a second star next to him. We need another guy. I’m not sure if it’ll be Ivey or Duren, could be this draft or next year’s.

[jars]

He's the best player the Pistons have had since Grant Hill, probably already top 5 (Thomas/Lanier/Hill/Bing/Dumars?).

BLASPHEMY! You can't say Cade is already a top 5 piston if you haven't included guys like Rodney Stuckey and Lindsey Hunter in that list. You obviously only started following the Pistons this year and have no idea about history.

[MortSahlfan]

Cunningham’s scoring is up 5.3 points per game, his assists are up 1.9, his field goal percentage went from 41.6 percent to 45.9 percent, and his 3-point percentage has jumped from 31.4 percent to 35.5 percent on, essentially, the same number of attempts per game. Cunningham is carrying a true shooting percentage of 54.6 percent this season (he had a 50.4 true shooting percentage as a rookie and 49.2 true shooting percentage in 12 games last season). Lastly, Cunningham has upped these numbers while being one of just 10 players in the NBA to have a 30 percent usage or better. Cunningham is carrying the load of superstars, but without the help. His numbers have improved in the process. If there’s anything that should give Pistons ownership, decision-makers and fans hope, Cunningham’s growth is it. Getting “the guy” is the hardest part of rebuilding. Detroit, at the very least, appears to have gotten that part right.

[buzzkilloton]

Cunningham’s scoring is up 5.3 points per game, his assists are up 1.9, his field goal percentage went from 41.6 percent to 45.9 percent, and his 3-point percentage has jumped from 31.4 percent to 35.5 percent on, essentially, the same number of attempts per game. Cunningham is carrying a true shooting percentage of 54.6 percent this season (he had a 50.4 true shooting percentage as a rookie and 49.2 true shooting percentage in 12 games last season). Lastly, Cunningham has upped these numbers while being one of just 10 players in the NBA to have a 30 percent usage or better. Cunningham is carrying the load of superstars, but without the help. His numbers have improved in the process. If there’s anything that should give Pistons ownership, decision-makers and fans hope, Cunningham’s growth is it. Getting “the guy” is the hardest part of rebuilding. Detroit, at the very least, appears to have gotten that part right.

Yup their is no question Cade has improved quite alot from his rookie season. This is with a roster that is low on talent and lack of defense/spacing. I'm very confident we get a huge year 3 jump from Cade.

Yes I'm aware hes in year 3 but he did miss all of year two. Though the missed year should count some as he still was working on his game watching tape etc. Maybe I should call it a year 3.5 jump in Cades case.

[MortSahlfan]

Cunningham’s scoring is up 5.3 points per game, his assists are up 1.9, his field goal percentage went from 41.6 percent to 45.9 percent, and his 3-point percentage has jumped from 31.4 percent to 35.5 percent on, essentially, the same number of attempts per game. Cunningham is carrying a true shooting percentage of 54.6 percent this season (he had a 50.4 true shooting percentage as a rookie and 49.2 true shooting percentage in 12 games last season). Lastly, Cunningham has upped these numbers while being one of just 10 players in the NBA to have a 30 percent usage or better. Cunningham is carrying the load of superstars, but without the help. His numbers have improved in the process. If there’s anything that should give Pistons ownership, decision-makers and fans hope, Cunningham’s growth is it. Getting “the guy” is the hardest part of rebuilding. Detroit, at the very least, appears to have gotten that part right.

Yup their is no question Cade has improved quite alot from his rookie season. This is with a roster that is low on talent and lack of defense/spacing. I'm very confident we get a huge year 3 jump from Cade.

Yes I'm aware hes in year 3 but he did miss all of year two. Though the missed year should count some as he still was working on his game watching tape etc. Maybe I should call it a year 3.5 jump in Cades case.

When he gets some help, he's going to look a lot better, because he wants to pass. I also think his turnovers will go down, shooting % will go up once the double/triple teams stop.