New Edwards article "why the Pistons core may have a big issue on its hands"

[buzzkilloton]

The drum some of us have been beating for awhile is now being brought up by Edwards today. Pretty obv our "core 4" is a broken fit.

"For all that the Detroit Pistons’ young core — Cade Cunningham, Jaden Ivey, Ausar Thompson, Isaiah Stewart and Jalen Duren — provide in regards to intrigue and optimism individually, the group of five may have a major issue on its hands that could make the individual experiences null and void.

The lack of perimeter shooting is alarming and may force the organization to seriously rethink whether this group can succeed together as soon as this summer.

Before we get deep into the weeds, it should be noted that the Pistons’ front office may have to consider shaking up this core group sooner rather than later because Detroit, with a 12-56 record, has a chance to be the NBA’s worst team yet again. There’s a legitimate chance that this Pistons team finishes with the worst record in franchise history (16 wins would tie it). It’s even more likely that ownership feels like progress in the win-loss column should have been made.

If this were Year 1 or 2 of the Pistons’ rebuild, patience would still permeate from top to bottom. This is Year 4. Detroit has to be significantly better next season because of how the last three seasons have gone.

When healthy, the five names mentioned above make up the Pistons’ starting lineup. The best shooter, in terms of percentage, in that group is Stewart, who just started shooting volume 3s for the first time last season. Stewart is knocking down more than 38 percent of his nearly 4.0 attempts per game. The progress Stewart has made has been a bright spot in a season that has been rather dull. He’s making “open” and “wide open” 3-pointers at an acceptable rate, especially when you factor in his age and growing skill set. Opposing teams are staying home on Stewart more frequently when the ball is in his vicinity.

Yet, even with Stewart’s success from 3, the big man, who is probably the most consistent player in the starting lineup, doesn’t possess the upside of the other four in the rotation. Detroit, more than anything, needs the players occupying the other four spots to really be threats from distance. And soon.

Let’s go to Cunningham next because everything he’s shown since Jan. 1 suggests that he’s going to be fine from 3. Since the turn of the calendar year, the organization’s best player is knocking down 36.1 percent of his 5.3 3-point attempts per game, a fine mark considering the volume he’s putting up and the fact he missed an entire season, essentially, with a leg injury. Furthermore, it’s encouraging that, also since Jan. 1, Cunningham is knocking down a solid 38 percent on pull-up 3s (only 1.8 per game). If you look back since Feb. 15, a little over a month, Cunningham is at 44.8 percent (2.2 attempts per game). The signs are growing more and more encouraging as a pull-up 3-point shooter, an area that often catapults players into All-Star status. Now, Detroit does need Cunningham’s catch-and-shoot percentage to improve (he’s around 34.6 percent on those shots since Jan. 1) in order to fully utilize him and the Ivey backcourt when on the court together. But, at the end of the day, Cunningham’s growth and numbers as the team’s primary ballhandler suggest that they should continue to utilize him in that role more often than not.

That takes us to Ivey, who is the best player on the roster at getting to the rim with the ball in his hands. Ivey’s ability to attack defenses with his speed and improving touch is worthwhile for the Pistons, without question. However, if he’s going to play alongside Cunningham, he has to be better shooting the ball. Ivey is in the midst of a damaging 3-point shooting slump dating back to Feb. 1. Since then, he’s shooting 31.9 percent on close to 6.0 attempts per game. Over his last 10 games, the second-year guard is at 21.3 percent on 6.1 attempts per game. On the season, Ivey is in the low 30 percent on both pull-up 3s and catch-and-shoot 3s, per NBA.com.

Ivey has been the epitome of a streaky distance shooter since entering the NBA. Before this 10-game slump, he shot over 43 percent in February. Ivey has a trend of solid-to-great 3-point shooting one month and then truly detrimental 3-point shooting the next. Maybe Ivey will become the consistent 3-point threat the Pistons need, to make the pairing with Cunningham truly work. It’s just not there yet, and given the fragile state of the franchise at this point in time, Detroit’s decision-makers may need to figure out what they believe the future holds for Ivey as a shooter if the goal is to continue to make him a starter going forward.

Lastly, Thompson and Duren are complete non-threats from 3. Thompson is under 20 percent on the season, but it’s hard to be too critical of him because he defends at an elite level, finishes well at the rim and has the possibility to be a secondary ballhandler sooner rather than later. Thompson, along with Cunningham, especially Cunningham, is untouchable because if the shot does come around, you’re looking at someone with All-NBA upside due to what he can be on the defensive end. As for Duren, 3-point shooting isn’t in his arsenal. Not now, and maybe not for a long time. He has improved immensely as a free-throw shooter and that often is a good sign when projecting someone’s 3-point shooting, but that feels so far down the road that it’s hard to even consider at this point.

All in all, the Pistons have a group of young pieces that they really like and that all bring something different table. Usually, varying skill sets makes for a cohesive collection of talent. That hasn’t been the case in Detroit because, well, none of them are elite shooters. It would be tough to even say that 1 1/2 are good shooters at this point.

Sooner than they maybe anticipated, Detroit’s decision-makers may have to have tough conversations internally regarding this group of five players, if they fit and who is worth building around. The Pistons probably didn’t anticipate having these talks so seriously, so soon, but that’s what comes with losing at this level for four years.

It’s entirely possible that the players Detroit need to become consistent 3-point threats do so by next season. After all, this is a rebuild. Patience is required when fostering talented youth. It’s also entirely possible that it doesn’t happen. The caveat is that the Pistons don’t really have the luxury of rolling the dice this time around and banking on development of this magnitude, not across the board."

https://theathletic.com/5354420/2024/03/20/pistons-young-core-issues-nba/

[MortSahlfan]

Thanks for posting this!

I wouldn't worry about Duren not having a 3-pt shot. Stew is signed for 15/yr until 2028 and is always referred to as a leader on the team, and we know his toughness, hustle, as well as his improved 3pt shooting. Cade is our franchise player, and I think he'll show even more worth when he has better players to pass it to, but also to make plays, as opposed to a guy (Ivey) who kills ball movement, because he just wants to dribble into traffic. Teams leave him wide open for a reason, another reason he should come off the bench, so he can score all he wants. So it really leaves Ivey and Ausar, and for me it's a simple decision that I go with Ausar, because he's already an elite defender, has great athleticism, can dribble and pass without turning over much. Unfortunately, no one knows who's making the moves..

When Ivey was coming off the bench, we also had Killian starting, which made it tough for Cade. Ivey should be cutting, not standing. He has the athleticism, and so at least he'd be tiring out his defender, maybe creating space, and if he makes a good, hard curl, he'll get the ball for an easy bucket, but his shooting from a few feet away isn't good, either. But if the front office forces Monty to start him, then I don't know... I still think him coming off the bench would be best for the team, and probably himself. We have too many young guys, and won't be able to afford to pay them all, and not a fan of paying for potential, either. Any mediocre GM would realize this and make a move before it's too late.. I'm surprised Weaver admitted that we received better offers last year for Bojan and Burks.

We've lost enough, and we can't go backwards, fans are tired, players are tired, and losing takes a toll.. Guys can't develop by losing, and we saw what difference it made when Bojan came back, so I only imagine a Bojan type of player who can defend and isn't so old... But we need to get some veterans, mid to late 20s who are constantly moving (like a Rip Hamilton) who can play defense and shoot.

[theBigLip]

Good article. I do agree that everyone in the core doesn’t have to be a starter. Cade and Duren? Yes. Not so sure about everyone else. Also, $70M in cap space should bring us a couple more.

Cade/Sassar
???/Ivey/Grimes
???/Fontecchio
???/Thompson
Duren/Stewart/Wiseman

[Uncle Mxy]

Our newest addition Chimezie Metu will fix EVERYTHING!

https://gophnx.com/chimezie-metu-phoenix-suns-expectations-breakdown/

[theBigLip]

Our newest addition Chimezie Metu will fix EVERYTHING!

https://gophnx.com/chimezie-metu-phoenix-suns-expectations-breakdown/

Chimezie!!!

[vege]

Our newest addition Chimezie Metu will fix EVERYTHING!

https://gophnx.com/chimezie-metu-phoenix-suns-expectations-breakdown/

I kinda like him, he is an undersized energy center, that plays solid defense. He can give us most of what Stewart does but being paid the minimum, not 15 mil per year.

JEIII is a joke, just like the entire organization.

[theBigLip]

Our newest addition Chimezie Metu will fix EVERYTHING!

https://gophnx.com/chimezie-metu-phoenix-suns-expectations-breakdown/

I kinda like him, he is an undersized energy center, that plays solid defense. He can give us most of what Stewart does but being paid the minimum, not 15 mil per year.

JEIII is a joke, just like the entire organization.

Just like some of our posters…

[vege]

Our newest addition Chimezie Metu will fix EVERYTHING!

https://gophnx.com/chimezie-metu-phoenix-suns-expectations-breakdown/

I kinda like him, he is an undersized energy center, that plays solid defense. He can give us most of what Stewart does but being paid the minimum, not 15 mil per year.

JEIII is a joke, just like the entire organization.

Just like some of our posters…

Yeah, a mod doing personal attacks fits well with this garbage organization. Way to go bro.

[theBigLip]

I kinda like him, he is an undersized energy center, that plays solid defense. He can give us most of what Stewart does but being paid the minimum, not 15 mil per year.

JEIII is a joke, just like the entire organization.

Just like some of our posters…

Yeah, a mod doing personal attacks fits well with this garbage organization. Way to go bro.

It’s only personal if you take it that way. I’m just doing my best to try to make this a welcoming place to talk Pistons basketball. If one’s only take is that everyone is garbage, no one deserves to even be in the G-league, and everything is bad, it tends to not generate good discussion. Pretty much as useful as someone taking a dump in a punch bowl at a party. One might feel a need to do it but it doesn’t do much for anyone else.

[Invictus88]

Good article. I do agree that everyone in the core doesn’t have to be a starter. Cade and Duren? Yes. Not so sure about everyone else. Also, $70M in cap space should bring us a couple more.

Cade/Sassar
???/Ivey/Grimes
???/Fontecchio
???/Thompson
Duren/Stewart/Wiseman

What has Fontecchio done here to indicate that he doesn't potentially warrant being the starter? He's a dynamic scoring threat with range that plays defense. If that doesn't fit the bill then what are you really expecting at the 4?

I want to like JEIII but he's just too big of a mouthpiece for an organization that has a lot of problems internally. There's a conflict of interest there in terms of relying on him to be able to provide an objective viewpoint in assessing the health of our team.

The repeated attempts to deflect any and all reasoned detractors of Stew's game especially just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Saying that he isn't the only one having problems in a particular area does not absolve someone of issues themselves.

[MortSahlfan]

That's the media for you. If you want access, you have to do softball interviews, etc..

[theBigLip]

Good article. I do agree that everyone in the core doesn’t have to be a starter. Cade and Duren? Yes. Not so sure about everyone else. Also, $70M in cap space should bring us a couple more.

Cade/Sassar
???/Ivey/Grimes
???/Fontecchio
???/Thompson
Duren/Stewart/Wiseman

What has Fontecchio done here to indicate that he doesn't potentially warrant being the starter? He's a dynamic scoring threat with range that plays defense. If that doesn't fit the bill then what are you really expecting at the 4?

I want to like JEIII but he's just too big of a mouthpiece for an organization that has a lot of problems internally. There's a conflict of interest there in terms of relying on him to be able to provide an objective viewpoint in assessing the health of our team.

The repeated attempts to deflect any and all reasoned detractors of Stew's game especially just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Saying that he isn't the only one having problems in a particular area does not absolve someone of issues themselves.

Agree that Fontecchio is certainly starter worthy w our current roster. If we get a near AllStar w our cap space, probably not. He’s certainly been a great addition.

As for JEIII, he (and most reporters) have a tough job. You want to not just be a shill for a team, but if you’re too harsh, you might not get as good of access you need to do your job. Hard to get the right balance.

[fleet40]

Cade, Duren, Stewart, Ivey, Thompson are our "core" that core has played many games together. And they are exactly what their record shows. A turnover prone and bad defensive core. A core which makes Stewart our "best" plus minus player. And that is scary and pathetic to me as a longtime fan of this franchise. The core and foundation is rotten, and led by a coach that appears to not want to be here. After all of these games where are the improvements? Where do we see guys like Cade reduce the TO, same for Ivey. Where do we see guys lock down their defensive assignments and help each other if they get beat? Where is the guy who puts his body on the line and take a charge? Where is our leader? Anywhere? Front office? Coach? Star.player?

Show me some light at the end of this God forsaken tunnel?

[theBigLip]

Cade, Duren, Stewart, Ivey, Thompson are our "core" that core has played many games together. And they are exactly what their record shows. A turnover prone and bad defensive core. A core which makes Stewart our "best" plus minus player. And that is scary and pathetic to me as a longtime fan of this franchise. The core and foundation is rotten, and led by a coach that appears to not want to be here. After all of these games where are the improvements? Where do we see guys like Cade reduce the TO, same for Ivey. Where do we see guys lock down their defensive assignments and help each other if they get beat? Where is the guy who puts his body on the line and take a charge? Where is our leader? Anywhere? Front office? Coach? Star.player?

Show me some light at the end of this God forsaken tunnel?

We’re playing better than at the beginning of the season. But it’s still a bunch of 20 year olds. Need some vets. The ones we had were injured most of the year before we dumped them. Duren’s offense - much better. Wiseman’s all around game - much better. But we clearly need some more vets/shooters. $70M in cap space needs to produce this summer.

[whitehops]

one of my biggest criticisms of weaver's tenure and the way the team has gone about their rebuild is considering players part of the core before they've done anything or really shown any development.

example: jalen williams was drafted 12th (one before jalen duren) and he made first team all-rookie and showed huge improvement in his second season - he's averaging almost 20 PPG and is an MIP candidate. he's obviously part of OKC's core going forward along with SGA and chet.

he wasn't even their first pick in the draft last year. they took ousmane dieng the pick before him and despite williams starting the vast majority of games and playing 30+ minutes a night, dieng is a fringe rotation player. it didn't matter that dieng was drafted first, williams earned the minutes. the cream rises to the top, as they say. houston doesn't care that sengun was drafted 16th and jalen green 2nd, sengun has outplayed him so he's the hub of their team and the centerpiece of their core.

contrast that with weaver making no effort to add quality players to "challenge" the players he's drafted, instead he's deemed who our core is despite none of them besides cade showing that they can be more than complementary players. we had two first round picks this year but at no point was it a thought that sasser could be part of the core while ausar was instantly hailed as part of it.

TL;DR: pre-determining who your core is because of their draft slot is a terrible strategy to build your team. acquiring worse and worse players to justify maintaining their "core" status is daft. the result is a terrible team that players don't want to play for, coaches don't want to coach and fans that don't want to watch.

[theBigLip]

Bogdonovich, Burks and Morris we’re supposed to do that “pushing” not sure how many games in total they were healthy, but not many.

And it really isn’t predetermined in Weaver’s mind based on draft slot. You let the young guys get some experience, but get rid of them if they aren’t making progress. Which is why Hayes and Bey are no longer on the team.

[vic]

The problem is they don't draft players that fit. They draft talent with holes in the worst possible places.
A big that doesn't like defense. That's the worst spot to have an offensive minded player unless his name is Jokic.
A shooting guard that has been streaky his whole life. You expected that to change? WYSIWYG.
Why draft Ausar expecting him to be able to.shoot? WYSIWYG. It wasn't going to happen, and it was never going to fit with what you have.
The Pistons have been trying to pur square pegs in round holes ever since Stuckey and Brandon Knight were the "point guards of the future"

Newsflash: Nobody's giving you a superstar SG that fits with Cade. Nobody is going to trade you that perfect fit piece that is established, non-injured, not too old, and will commit long-term. If you draft a flawed player, nobody's going to give you their well-rounded player for him!

In today's NBA you have to draft well or you're not in the game. You could have gotten Cam Whitmore last year but you didn't. Now you have a MUCH HARDER PUZZLE to solve.

The only solution now is:
1.Jaden Ivey 6th man
2. Stew 1st Big off bench, insurance for Durens bad defense
3. Duren develop defensively or he doesn't get max contract. Be clear with him that offense is his 2nd priority, and he will only get a max based on defense.
4. Grimes starting 2 IF his knee heals this sunmer
5. Ausar starting PF or SG depending on Grimes
6. Fonteccio starting 3 until Risacher is ready.
7. You are backed into.a corner to Draft Risacher because he fits with Cade and Ausar and will keep THEM on the floor together.
Optional
8. If you really want to fix things, get another pick and grab Kyle Filipowski: 2-way stretch big that will make all the puzzle pieces fit whether he starts OR comes off the bench. It could take Stewart or Duren to get another pick that high... but that's on Weaver for stacking his team with flawed bigs. Now he might have to give up the one of the best flawed bigs he has so he can draft a well rounded one.

I'm not getting rid of Ivey, because a microwave scorer can help you get a chip, but a non-defensive 5 gets you nowhere unless his name is Jokic. Duren is a talent but he will never be Jokic because he doesn't shoot 3s and is not a threat to space the floor for his team. WYSIWYG.

Realistic winning lineup:
Cade/Ivey
Grimes/Ausar
Tech/Risacher
Ausar/Stew
Duren/Stew