New Edwards article rating our assets

[Snakebites]

There are no bad contracts. Cade could become an albatross if he continues to have injury problems, but for now let's hope it's all related to the same core injury and that after 2 years he'll finally be 100%. I actually think Stewarts contract is quite reasonable and will increase in value over time. Outside of that, we have a ton of flexibility.

One potential issue is that eventually all these rookie contracts do need to be picked up or declined. You can't really pay Cade, Ivey, Ausar AND Duren (assuming they all develop). Eventually, you need to pair down. It's inevitable. Either they play themselves out OR we can't afford them. That's one of the many reasons it makes sense to consolidate assets. Take 2-3 of those pieces and move them for 1 large contract and then build around that. 4 is too many for a "core" in terms of payroll. It doesn't matter now, but it's not sustainable. And especially not if people are expecting us to go out and spend big this summer. Eventually that bill comes due.

I’ll certainly grant that we’re not saddled with NEGATIVE assets at the moment. But it’s absolutely fair to say we haven’t built value through the draft the way a team with this number of lottery picks ought to be able to.

[zeebneeb]

This is an absolutely dismal set of assets for a team that has picked as many times in the high first round as we have.

Not really. You have Cade.

Everyone else can be shipped for one guy, and then in free agency you can add players around the two.

Problem is that Weaver is the GM.

Most of our guys could not fetch an equivalent pick in a typical draft- nevermind this draft- picks aren’t worth as much in this draft.

In a typical draft I doubt we could get the first pick for Cade with his question marks in contract and durability. There’s reason to believe he’ll be a star, but he’s not a can’t-miss franchise player- he’s not one of those guys worth more than the max, so his value will drop again once he’s extended. That doesn’t happen with REAL max guys.

Ivey would never fetch a number five in a typical draft. Ditto Ausar.

Killian? Gone for nothing. Bey? Gone for….Wiseman. Stewart is probably roughly neutral value or slightly positive- we might get a late first from a contender for him.

So…Duren maybe? Not overwhelmingly more. Everyone else has depreciated.

Ideally, at least some of these guys would be worth MORE than an equivalent pick in the draft. That’s what is ideally supposed to happen if you’re a competent team. Not every time but at least a better portion of the time. Think the Celtics would have ever traded Tatum for a third pick? What about the Mavs? They moving Luka? Tyrese Maxey is sure worth a lot more than 22 or whatever his pick number was. If you do it right these guys are supposed to get MORE valuable as they get further from the draft. We’ve had tons of chances to obtain appreciating assets and simply have failed to do so.

So yeah, that’s the basis for my comment. And I think it’s a good one.

I want to make sure we are speaking the same language here.

I am advocating trading;

Duren/Ivey/Asaur+pick for one player. Surely you agree that, that package, is going to be worth something. I honestly don't care if its;

Stewart/Duren/Ivey/Ausar+pick, FOR ONE GUY.

I am not speaking to separate trades. One. To get the guy next to Cade, and then fill the team out in free agency.

If thats what you meant, cool.

[Snakebites]

Not really. You have Cade.

Everyone else can be shipped for one guy, and then in free agency you can add players around the two.

Problem is that Weaver is the GM.

Most of our guys could not fetch an equivalent pick in a typical draft- nevermind this draft- picks aren’t worth as much in this draft.

In a typical draft I doubt we could get the first pick for Cade with his question marks in contract and durability. There’s reason to believe he’ll be a star, but he’s not a can’t-miss franchise player- he’s not one of those guys worth more than the max, so his value will drop again once he’s extended. That doesn’t happen with REAL max guys.

Ivey would never fetch a number five in a typical draft. Ditto Ausar.

Killian? Gone for nothing. Bey? Gone for….Wiseman. Stewart is probably roughly neutral value or slightly positive- we might get a late first from a contender for him.

So…Duren maybe? Not overwhelmingly more. Everyone else has depreciated.

Ideally, at least some of these guys would be worth MORE than an equivalent pick in the draft. That’s what is ideally supposed to happen if you’re a competent team. Not every time but at least a better portion of the time. Think the Celtics would have ever traded Tatum for a third pick? What about the Mavs? They moving Luka? Tyrese Maxey is sure worth a lot more than 22 or whatever his pick number was. If you do it right these guys are supposed to get MORE valuable as they get further from the draft. We’ve had tons of chances to obtain appreciating assets and simply have failed to do so.

So yeah, that’s the basis for my comment. And I think it’s a good one.

I want to make sure we are speaking the same language here.

I am advocating trading;

Duren/Ivey/Asaur+pick for one player. Surely you agree that, that package, is going to be worth something. I honestly don't care if its;

Stewart/Duren/Ivey/Ausar+pick, FOR ONE GUY.

I am not speaking to separate trades. One. To get the guy next to Cade, and then fill the team out in free agency.

If thats what you meant, cool.

I was commenting in a very general sense about the value of our overall assets, not advocating or decrying any specific course of action with respect to said assets.

I’m not sure who the best guy is that we could get for those assets.

[zeebneeb]

Most of our guys could not fetch an equivalent pick in a typical draft- nevermind this draft- picks aren’t worth as much in this draft.

In a typical draft I doubt we could get the first pick for Cade with his question marks in contract and durability. There’s reason to believe he’ll be a star, but he’s not a can’t-miss franchise player- he’s not one of those guys worth more than the max, so his value will drop again once he’s extended. That doesn’t happen with REAL max guys.

Ivey would never fetch a number five in a typical draft. Ditto Ausar.

Killian? Gone for nothing. Bey? Gone for….Wiseman. Stewart is probably roughly neutral value or slightly positive- we might get a late first from a contender for him.

So…Duren maybe? Not overwhelmingly more. Everyone else has depreciated.

Ideally, at least some of these guys would be worth MORE than an equivalent pick in the draft. That’s what is ideally supposed to happen if you’re a competent team. Not every time but at least a better portion of the time. Think the Celtics would have ever traded Tatum for a third pick? What about the Mavs? They moving Luka? Tyrese Maxey is sure worth a lot more than 22 or whatever his pick number was. If you do it right these guys are supposed to get MORE valuable as they get further from the draft. We’ve had tons of chances to obtain appreciating assets and simply have failed to do so.

So yeah, that’s the basis for my comment. And I think it’s a good one.

I want to make sure we are speaking the same language here.

I am advocating trading;

Duren/Ivey/Asaur+pick for one player. Surely you agree that, that package, is going to be worth something. I honestly don't care if its;

Stewart/Duren/Ivey/Ausar+pick, FOR ONE GUY.

I am not speaking to separate trades. One. To get the guy next to Cade, and then fill the team out in free agency.

If thats what you meant, cool.

I was commenting in a very general sense about the general value of our overall assets, not advocating or decrying any specific course of action with respect to said assets.

Gotcha. Instead of evaluating each asset, im looking at them as one big product, that can used to land the one asset needed.

Micro/Macro.

[SuperBad]

I know we’ve been terrible but we can’t give up on Duran and Ivey, they’ve played two seasons as had Cade, we’ve wasted so much time on worse talent, we have to spend the free agency money first and make a play that way, it takes most players three years to hit a stride, and second seasons are often worse then rookie seasons, this was kinda predictable when your big three are all in there second season. We have a ton of money, and a good pick, we need to give these guys another 50 games, but we need to get free agents that work well with Cade, and established rotational players at least, if we could get a shooting guard that can really shoot consistently and is a league wide known threat, that one piece will actually be the biggest difference, we should probably get two.

[vege]

I want to make sure we are speaking the same language here.

I am advocating trading;

Duren/Ivey/Asaur+pick for one player. Surely you agree that, that package, is going to be worth something. I honestly don't care if its;

Stewart/Duren/Ivey/Ausar+pick, FOR ONE GUY.

I am not speaking to separate trades. One. To get the guy next to Cade, and then fill the team out in free agency.

If thats what you meant, cool.

I was commenting in a very general sense about the general value of our overall assets, not advocating or decrying any specific course of action with respect to said assets.

Gotcha. Instead of evaluating each asset, im looking at them as one big product, that can used to land the one asset needed.

Micro/Macro.

Isaiah Hartenstein / Chimezie Metu - he is not a PF - (Alex Sarr) /
Tobias Harris (JI) / Simone Fontecchio (Matas Buzelis)/ Tosan Evbuomwan
(Bridges)(Lauri) / Ausar Thompson /
De'Anthony Melton / Quentin Grimes / Stanley Umude
Cade Cunningham / /

Jalen Duren - I was absolutely in love with him as prospect, high bbiq, phisical beast, high motor. This season destroyed everything. He developed a ton of bad habits, and showed me that he only care about his numbers, he was extremely selfish the 2nd half of the season, did a ton of dumb stuff, and stop putting any effort on defense. I know this was a lost season, but this is not the kind of player I particularly want around.

Isaiah Stewart - Chimezie Metu can provide most of what he does for 1/10 of the cost. FO sells him as the heart and soul of the team, I have no interest in keep a locker room leader that allow the team to quit on the coaching staff and have a 14 win season. He is a solid player, but easily replaceable and paid way too much.

Jaden Ivey - He is very bad at basketball, and his reaction when he was relegated to the bench, plus the team quitting on the coaching staff, plus the FO forcing him to start, caused him to continue to be clueless on defense, and develop a ton of bad habits on offense. He has no confidence left, and he clearly want the coaching staff gone. Too many red flags. He need to go asap.

Marcus Sasser - Talented but inconsistent player. No where near as good defensively as advertised, and again, very inconsistent on offense. He is a solid scorer off the bench, but Jaylen Nowell could provide the same thing for the minimum for example, there are a lot of other guys who could as well, given the opportunity. If he is worth even a couple of mid 2nds I'd let him go. If he is worth nothing, keep him as a 3rd stringer, he is cheap and doesn't seem to be a locker room distraction, he is a nice kid by all reports we got.

1st round pick - likely #5 but we could get luck. We don't need another rookie unless it's someone with potential to be our franchise player, which by all reports, we won't find in this draft, so, combine the pick with some or all of our expendable players and bring 1 quality starter. Trade the pick for future picks would also be an option for me.

Right now, we don't have options, but after the playoffs we could have a better idea. Right now an expiring Lauri Markkanen and an extremely overrated Mikal Bridges are the best options in the market, and they might not be available for our assets, and they're not worth our assets imo, Lauri because of his contract situation, Bridges because of Brooklyn's evaluation.

Ausar probably does not have a ton of value because of his lack of shooting and his health situation. I love the kid, his fighting spirit, his intensity, so I think it's worth trying to continue to develop him. I would not trade him. Ausar and Cade are untouchable for me.

Cade is no SGA/Embiid/Jokic/Luka level of player. We need talented guys around him and even a well built team around Cade might not be enough to accomplish something relevant, but we should at least give it a try imo.

I would sign

Isaiah Hartenstein - Good passer, solid FT shooter, excellent offensive rebounder, super efficient offensive player, although limited talent wise, but still an above average offensive player that fit what our Coach wants to do. He is a DPOY candidate, one of the best defenders in the league. NYK can't compete against us for his services (money wise), and they have Mitchell Robinson on a reasonable deal.

De'Anthony Melton - Injury plagued season, in a contract year, Philly will try to swing and retool around Jojo, so he should be cheap and very attainable. He is an above average 3 point shooter, above average passer, overall an inneficient but good offensive player (he does good things other than score), and he is a very good defender, not a lock down defender but very good in that side of the ball.

Tobias Harris - Solid pro, hard worker, mentally weak, but a nice and likeable guy. He is solid on both sides of the ball and have a lot of ties in Detroit, and is probably not in Philadelphia's future plans, so he is attainable.

If no permanent solution appear with our assets, draft someone or get future picks, and combine a few of those players and get Jonathan Isaac. He is a high risk, high reward kind of move. He is a defensive star, but he is super fragile, he had a relatively health season, but he was limited to a small role and 20 mpg and still missed a lot of games. A big overpay would need to be made to get him out of Orlando, and I don't care, I would gladly trade Ivey's potential and Stewart (to a 3rd team if needed) for Isaac.

FWIW I still like Quentin Grimes, I think he could become a prime Gary Harris type of player.

I also like Fontecchio, but while he is a good player, he is a bad defender, so he is an excellent bench player but not a starter imo. If he costs too much, I would let him walk, if he can be locked on a reasonable deal, I would love to bring him back.

Yes we will need to overpay. Money and talent (potential) to acquire real NBA players and build a team. Tobias contract is probably going to be ugly, and we're not going to get a star for our young players + pick. Cade is 99.99% going to be the best player on the roster next season.

[A_dub06]

Not really. You have Cade.

Everyone else can be shipped for one guy, and then in free agency you can add players around the two.

Problem is that Weaver is the GM.

Most of our guys could not fetch an equivalent pick in a typical draft- nevermind this draft- picks aren’t worth as much in this draft.

In a typical draft I doubt we could get the first pick for Cade with his question marks in contract and durability. There’s reason to believe he’ll be a star, but he’s not a can’t-miss franchise player- he’s not one of those guys worth more than the max, so his value will drop again once he’s extended. That doesn’t happen with REAL max guys.

Ivey would never fetch a number five in a typical draft. Ditto Ausar.

Killian? Gone for nothing. Bey? Gone for….Wiseman. Stewart is probably roughly neutral value or slightly positive- we might get a late first from a contender for him.

So…Duren maybe? Not overwhelmingly more. Everyone else has depreciated.

Ideally, at least some of these guys would be worth MORE than an equivalent pick in the draft. That’s what is ideally supposed to happen if you’re a competent team. Not every time but at least a better portion of the time. Think the Celtics would have ever traded Tatum for a third pick? What about the Mavs? They moving Luka? Tyrese Maxey is sure worth a lot more than 22 or whatever his pick number was. If you do it right these guys are supposed to get MORE valuable as they get further from the draft. We’ve had tons of chances to obtain appreciating assets and simply have failed to do so.

So yeah, that’s the basis for my comment. And I think it’s a good one.

I want to make sure we are speaking the same language here.

I am advocating trading;

Duren/Ivey/Asaur+pick for one player. Surely you agree that, that package, is going to be worth something. I honestly don't care if its;

Stewart/Duren/Ivey/Ausar+pick, FOR ONE GUY.

I am not speaking to separate trades. One. To get the guy next to Cade, and then fill the team out in free agency.

If thats what you meant, cool.

This immediately bring to kind two questions, the first being what kind of player would we actually get back for that? The second is how do we improve from there? Do we just hope for the best and see what happens? To me that’s not an option because when we fail to get better because let’s face it nobody great is signing here, how long before Cade wants out? And whilst Cade has shown a lot more and finally gotten on track this season I don’t think he’s the #1 guy on a good team.

Weaver doesn’t do anything well and when it comes to trades he never maximises value or finds a diamond in the rough. There isn’t even a murky road map to improving this team beyond what draft pick we are getting and we still owe a protected first all for the ability to draft Stewart.

We need an entirely new front office and another tear down, it’s the only option. Signing Harris isn’t going to make this team good, nor is any other available free agent. I think Miles Bridges would also be a better option than Harris and would probably get him cheaper.

Would New Orleans accept an Ivey + Stew for Trey Murphy? Or Duren for Murphy then drafting Sarr to replace him?

There’s just no viable option at this point and the front office sucks all optimism because they are really bad at their jobs.

[BDM22]

I'm all in on trading everything of real value to acquire picks and do an actual rebuild that starts with assets instead of the heap of trash we started this rebuild with. New GM, new coaching staff. We literally can't get worse than being worst every year...

Cade's value is going to plummet down at or below the guys under him on the list the day he's getting $210M+ and still can't stay on the floor and IMO has shown he's clearly not a #1. Even with a bad roster and coach, I think a #1 (or even #2) wins you more games than this on raw talent. You look at where we were without him last year versus with him this year...

And I think we're kind of at the point where we're too far behind his timeline anyways. Not nearly enough talent on the roster to start handing out max deals already. He needed to not only stay healthy, but also show a lot more progress in W/L column impact before the max extension. Send him to the Spurs for picks they own or whatever. They're in a better position to take an immediate leap with someone to compliment Wemby.

Maybe Ausar is the only guy I'd keep, just because he's still a rookie and his trade value is probably not high relative to his upside since the medical issue.

[BDM22]

So again its been confirmed we had Murray for Ivey and Ausar on the table from the Hawks before the deadline. But Weaver said no.

Murray is on a very team friendly long term deal and has since blown up with Trae out injured.

I would have done that deal as both Ivey and Ausar have a long way to go as players. Sure they have 'potential' but they also have massive holes in their games like errr shooting. Remember that guy Killian Hayes who was the 7th pick - we let his value go all the way to ZERO based on potential.

Murray has already been an All Star with the Spurs.

Know when to hold em, and when to FLIP them.

I mean, Murray is not going to be able to take 25, 30 shots per game next to Cade. Murray's also the guy that got a 50 piece put on his dome by MALACHI FLYNN. Hawks got worse when they added him to the roster while giving up basically no active NBA players. I don't think he's going to rescue us from the bottom of the standings. Maybe he could get us a game or two above Washington.

We need to tear the whole thing down.

[buzzkilloton]

So again its been confirmed we had Murray for Ivey and Ausar on the table from the Hawks before the deadline. But Weaver said no.

Murray is on a very team friendly long term deal and has since blown up with Trae out injured.

I would have done that deal as both Ivey and Ausar have a long way to go as players. Sure they have 'potential' but they also have massive holes in their games like errr shooting. Remember that guy Killian Hayes who was the 7th pick - we let his value go all the way to ZERO based on potential.

Murray has already been an All Star with the Spurs.

Know when to hold em, and when to FLIP them.

I mean, Murray is not going to be able to take 25, 30 shots per game next to Cade. Murray's also the guy that got a 50 piece put on his dome by MALACHI FLYNN. Hawks got worse when they added him to the roster while giving up basically no active NBA players. I don't think he's going to rescue us from the bottom of the standings. Maybe he could get us a game or two above Washington.

We need to tear the whole thing down.

Clearly you didnt watch the game. Flynn was doing most his damage off of picks not on "Murrays dome". Look at the game highlights. Flynn is a backup guard he doesnt lineup next to Murray the whole game. NBA teams run rotations you can check popcorn machine to see exact times they went on/off the court and minutes played together.

Flynn enters at 5mins Murray exits 3mins in the first. Flyyn exits at 5:45 2nd Murray enters at 8:19 in the 2nd. 3rd quarter Flynn enters at 8:40 plays rest of game. Murray exits at 2:36 in the 3rd and returns at 8:37 in the 4th. Thats about 50% of Flynn minutes their on the court together.

https://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20240403&game=DETATL

Watch on YouTube

[buzzkilloton]

Giving up on Cade and trading him before we even put forth effort to surround him with actual NBA players is absurd. We just seen the Rockets go out and add FVV and Brooks and go from 22wins to 40 wins in one season. They did that with losing their best player Sengun for a quarter of the season.

Get a GM that will add players that can shoot and play defense. Use our cap space for players that actually make a impact not 20mill on Joe Harris or chasing guys like Bagley and Wiseman who're hopeless. Cade has made some huge improvements this season and he was set up to fail. Make some impact moves adding vets like the Rockets did and we could easily be winning 35-40 next season and everything feels completely different.

Cade is 22 years old essentially just playing his 2nd season. He started the season rusty coming off a serious injury when he got his feet under him he was playing all star level ball. From Jan 15 to today (26 games) Cade put up 22.4 points, 7.8 assists and 4.7 rebounds while upping his 3-point percentage to 38.5 on 5.2 attempts per game.

[BDM22]

Giving up on Cade and trading him before we even put forth effort to surround him with actual NBA players is absurd. We just seen the Rockets go out and add FVV and Brooks and go from 22wins to 40 wins in one season. They did that with losing their best player Sengun for a quarter of the season.

Get a GM that will add players that can shoot and play defense. Use our cap space for players that actually make a impact not 20mill on Joe Harris or chasing guys like Bagley and Wiseman who're hopeless. Cade has made some huge improvements this season and he was set up to fail. Make some impact moves adding vets like the Rockets did and we could easily be winning 35-40 next season and everything feels completely different.

Cade is 22 years old essentially just playing his 2nd season. He started the season rusty coming off a serious injury when he got his feet under him he was playing all star level ball. From Jan 15 to today (26 games) Cade put up 22.4 points, 7.8 assists and 4.7 rebounds while upping his 3-point percentage to 38.5 on 5.2 attempts per game.

Rockets have A LOT more talent than we have and they STILL were on pace to miss the playoffs w/Sengun healthy after going all-in during the offseason.

With guys on this squad like Cade in line to get massively paid very soon, with no #1 player on the roster, and no bounty of draft picks/assets to use, I see no path to contention before we hit the payroll wall.

You can cherry pick stats all you want, but none of that contributed to any wins this year. Pistons are 5-14 without Cade and 9-53 with him. No impact. The health also isn't there. Consistently.

If we had a #1 and Cade was the complimentary guy, I think you could run with that and even overpay him if you have to, but we still need to find the #1.

[buzzkilloton]

Giving up on Cade and trading him before we even put forth effort to surround him with actual NBA players is absurd. We just seen the Rockets go out and add FVV and Brooks and go from 22wins to 40 wins in one season. They did that with losing their best player Sengun for a quarter of the season.

Get a GM that will add players that can shoot and play defense. Use our cap space for players that actually make a impact not 20mill on Joe Harris or chasing guys like Bagley and Wiseman who're hopeless. Cade has made some huge improvements this season and he was set up to fail. Make some impact moves adding vets like the Rockets did and we could easily be winning 35-40 next season and everything feels completely different.

Cade is 22 years old essentially just playing his 2nd season. He started the season rusty coming off a serious injury when he got his feet under him he was playing all star level ball. From Jan 15 to today (26 games) Cade put up 22.4 points, 7.8 assists and 4.7 rebounds while upping his 3-point percentage to 38.5 on 5.2 attempts per game.

Ofc the win loss is terrible the roster is awful,badly coached and really young. Cade is essentially just finishing his 2nd season. He was coming off a serious injury he didnt enter the season at 100%.

Its way to soon to cap Cades ceiling as anything we just dont know good he will become. Some superstars dont break out to close to their final form until year 4 or 5. Whats important is its very very obv hes a much better player this season. He has tons of room to grow still within his own game and just having competent players around him that will make him better.

[BDM22]

Giving up on Cade and trading him before we even put forth effort to surround him with actual NBA players is absurd. We just seen the Rockets go out and add FVV and Brooks and go from 22wins to 40 wins in one season. They did that with losing their best player Sengun for a quarter of the season.

Get a GM that will add players that can shoot and play defense. Use our cap space for players that actually make a impact not 20mill on Joe Harris or chasing guys like Bagley and Wiseman who're hopeless. Cade has made some huge improvements this season and he was set up to fail. Make some impact moves adding vets like the Rockets did and we could easily be winning 35-40 next season and everything feels completely different.

Cade is 22 years old essentially just playing his 2nd season. He started the season rusty coming off a serious injury when he got his feet under him he was playing all star level ball. From Jan 15 to today (26 games) Cade put up 22.4 points, 7.8 assists and 4.7 rebounds while upping his 3-point percentage to 38.5 on 5.2 attempts per game.

Ofc the win loss is terrible the roster is awful,badly coached and really young. Cade is essentially just finishing his 2nd season. He was coming off a serious injury he didnt enter the season at 100%.

Its way to soon to cap Cades ceiling as anything we just dont know good he will become. Some superstars dont break out to close to their final form onto year 4 or 5. Whats important is it's very very obv hes a much better player this season.

Yeah, you've touched on the issue but are still missing it. The lack of talent. When you start getting guys on max deals but you're still historically terrible and lack talent, it becomes basically impossible to improve as much as you need to unless you get lucky with a late pick like a Jokic or something. This is how you end up on a treadmill like Atlanta. Or how Detroit was with RJ and Andre. After going all in they were capped out. Decent enough to not get good picks, but too bad to be anything but a 1st round sweep, and that was the ceiling.

It becomes a lot harder to find a #1 when you go "all-in" maxing a franchise player that has contributed to 9 wins this year. We just don't have the assets to do that yet. You burn the cap space on a Tobias Harris and then you squeeze whatever value out of Ivey/Duren/picks or whatever and what do you have? A capped out 35 win team with no assets left to improve?

[JennetteMcCurdy]

When you start getting guys on max deals but you're still historically terrible and lack talent, it becomes basically impossible to improve as much as you need to unless you get lucky with a late pick like a Jokic or something. This is how you end up on a treadmill like Atlanta. Or how Detroit was with RJ and Andre. After going all in they were capped out. Decent enough to not get good picks, but too bad to be anything but a 1st round sweep, and that was the ceiling.

It becomes a lot harder to find a #1 when you go "all-in" around a franchise player that has contributed to 9 wins this year.

This. The timing with Cade is terrible. So this offseason, if we hand out huge deals to a couple of Harris/Bridges types and max out Cade, the money’s gone for years. And how many games do we win next year? 30? 32? How do we grow from there? Those obscure, undefined words ….. internal growth? How has that been working out?

Fire Weaver, blow it up, accumulate assets for a change.

[buzzkilloton]

Ofc the win loss is terrible the roster is awful,badly coached and really young. Cade is essentially just finishing his 2nd season. He was coming off a serious injury he didnt enter the season at 100%.

Its way to soon to cap Cades ceiling as anything we just dont know good he will become. Some superstars dont break out to close to their final form onto year 4 or 5. Whats important is it's very very obv hes a much better player this season.

Yeah, you've touched on the issue but are still missing it. The lack of talent. When you start getting guys on max deals but you're still historically terrible and lack talent, it becomes basically impossible to improve as much as you need to unless you get lucky with a late pick like a Jokic or something. This is how you end up on a treadmill like Atlanta. Or how Detroit was with RJ and Andre. After going all in they were capped out. Decent enough to not get good picks, but too bad to be anything but a 1st round sweep, and that was the ceiling.

It becomes a lot harder to find a #1 when you go "all-in" around a franchise player that has contributed to 9 wins this year.

Its not going to be like Drummond+Rjackson because those guys had no ceilings as players whatsoever.

Sure we can act like were defeated before we even try to do anything we could be destined for the treadmill. We could also end up like the Suns did when they added CP3 to go with Booker and made the finals. We could end up like the Knicks or Cavs and become 50+ win teams. Their is all kinds of different outcomes that can happen. You have to actually put effort into building a competent roster which we havent even done yet to see what can happen.

[Snakebites]

Lauri has one year left on his contract.

Trading for him- I’m not even sure risky is an accurate descriptor.

[BDM22]

Lauri has one year left on his contract.

Trading for him- I’m not even sure risky is an accurate descriptor.

Not risky if the deal is based around the start of free agency and Lauri agrees to renegotiate his final year using our cap space and extend his deal.

However, I would guess we won't get Lauri unless we give Cade.

[Moses ShamMoses]

I agree its probably best not to go "all-in" with a couple big name free agents at this point as a <15 win team. But I expect Weaver and Gores to use all the cap space this offseason to finally put a decent product on the floor. Unfortunately, It's very likely we cap ourselves as a middling team which is depressing. In that scenario, we'll need at least one of Ivey, Ausar, or #1 pick 2024 to turn into a star to get past mediocre.

[Snakebites]

Lauri has one year left on his contract.

Trading for him- I’m not even sure risky is an accurate descriptor.

Not risky if the deal is based around the start of free agency and Lauri agrees to renegotiate his final year using our cap space and extend his deal.

However, I would guess we won't get Lauri unless we give Cade.

I really don't see any reason he'd commit to that.

Nobody prepping for unrestricted free agency is going to commit to a 14 win team without at least checking on the market first. They know our money is going to still be there for the taking.