Playoff Losers = Trade Opportunities

[Canadafan]

Atlanta is 5 minutes from the end of their season. Tray Young is not worth his contract. Him or Murray (or both) are gone for sure.

Hunter? Murray?

I’m interested in Murray.

Absolutely Murray is on such a incredible team friendly contract. 3 more years at just 28.5 per for age 28,29,30 seasons then a PO at 31. This contract is so good if it doesnt work out we will be able to recoup value on what we traded to add him in the first place. Hell we could even come out ahead on the 2nd trade from what we gave up to get him.

Murray isnt the best fit with Cade because hes best onball hence his 26.6% usage this season. Of course Ivey is also only good(except hes not good at all) onball except hes worse at every aspect of the game then Murray and he still has a 24.9% usage. Murray can at least hit a open 3pter at 36% 3pt and he has always been awesome at getting steals.

Murray is on a such cheap contract it will allow us to go after another 30mill per year player as well. Resign Tecch and get another impact player on the roster. We might have a 18-20 win improvement and be battling for the playin.

That would be nice but for all those reasons is why Atlanta likely keeps him and trades Trae

[Canadafan]

Beef stew + our pick for Murray

Ivey, filler, future pick for Ingram

Sign Tyus Jones

Sign TJ Warren

Sign Drummond

2 iterations of starting 5

Defense:

Cade
Murray
BI
Ausar
Duren

Balance:
Cade
Murray
BI
Tech
Duren

Bench:
Tyus Jones
Grimes
Ausar
TJ Warren
Drummond

Yes to Tyus Jones and ew to Drummond lol

[Billl]

Man, some people are going to be disappointed here. Our pick this year doesn't have nearly the type of value some think it does. If we are hunting for an all-star, expect the price tag to be more like ivey, our pick, and stew ..... and then that all-star is probably still going to need to have some issues depressing their value.

Ah, but there is one caveat to this.

The #1 overall pick is absolutely going to have value, but then your eyeing trading perhaps the next JJJ for whomever you land.

Sarr is deeply intriguing, and if he is like JJJ(I strongly recommend watching some games of his if you haven't)even a rookie version of him next to Duren is going to amazing.

A ton of what happens in the offseason, goes hand in hand with what that pick is. If its 1, you got options galore. 2, and your immediately limited, but still some options. If its **** #5 again, abandon ship people.

The #1 pick in this draft will not net you zion or lauri or anyone like that. Of course it has value, but it doesn't have "established all-star" value. Sarr could be good, but he could also be an absolute bust. His only NBA ready skill right now is blocking shots, and even then, he's got rep as not always being engaged.

[zeebneeb]

Man, some people are going to be disappointed here. Our pick this year doesn't have nearly the type of value some think it does. If we are hunting for an all-star, expect the price tag to be more like ivey, our pick, and stew ..... and then that all-star is probably still going to need to have some issues depressing their value.

Ah, but there is one caveat to this.

The #1 overall pick is absolutely going to have value, but then your eyeing trading perhaps the next JJJ for whomever you land.

Sarr is deeply intriguing, and if he is like JJJ(I strongly recommend watching some games of his if you haven't)even a rookie version of him next to Duren is going to amazing.

A ton of what happens in the offseason, goes hand in hand with what that pick is. If its 1, you got options galore. 2, and your immediately limited, but still some options. If its **** #5 again, abandon ship people.

The #1 pick in this draft will not net you zion or lauri or anyone like that. Of course it has value, but it doesn't have "established all-star" value. Sarr could be good, but he could also be an absolute bust. His only NBA ready skill right now is blocking shots, and even then, he's got rep as not always being engaged.

Of course, that has been established whether or not it's true. This years draft could end up being one of those sleeper drafts. As for Sarr, every single player ever picked save for a very select handful, could have ended up as a bust. That means zero here. Perceived value is what is important in an NBA draft, which directly goes back to the perception that this draft is terrible, or really low on high-end talent.

My point is, adding the #1 pick in a deal is always a great sweetener, as opposed to the #5 pick which is obviously a value decline.

What I find interesting is I see people saying "this draft sucks" and also people saying "adding the top pick to a deal like that is a huge overpay."

Ok, well which is it?

[Billl]

Ah, but there is one caveat to this.

The #1 overall pick is absolutely going to have value, but then your eyeing trading perhaps the next JJJ for whomever you land.

Sarr is deeply intriguing, and if he is like JJJ(I strongly recommend watching some games of his if you haven't)even a rookie version of him next to Duren is going to amazing.

A ton of what happens in the offseason, goes hand in hand with what that pick is. If its 1, you got options galore. 2, and your immediately limited, but still some options. If its **** #5 again, abandon ship people.

The #1 pick in this draft will not net you zion or lauri or anyone like that. Of course it has value, but it doesn't have "established all-star" value. Sarr could be good, but he could also be an absolute bust. His only NBA ready skill right now is blocking shots, and even then, he's got rep as not always being engaged.

Of course, that has been established whether or not it's true. This years draft could end up being one of those sleeper drafts. As for Sarr, every single player ever picked save for a very select handful, could have ended up as a bust. That means zero here. Perceived value is what is important in an NBA draft, which directly goes back to the perception that this draft is terrible, or really low on high-end talent.

My point is, adding the #1 pick in a deal is always a great sweetener, as opposed to the #5 pick which is obviously a value decline.

What I find interesting is I see people saying "this draft sucks" and also people saying "adding the top pick to a deal like that is a huge overpay."

Ok, well which is it?

OK, I guess we can put you firmly in the camp of those who are going to be massively disappointed about the haul we will get for trading our that pick or young players. Your perceived values seems wildly out of touch with what the rest of the league perceives. And we aren't talking about the pick being a sweetener. It's the main asset we have to trade and it's not bringing back an all-star without bundling multiple young talents with it.

[zeebneeb]

The #1 pick in this draft will not net you zion or lauri or anyone like that. Of course it has value, but it doesn't have "established all-star" value. Sarr could be good, but he could also be an absolute bust. His only NBA ready skill right now is blocking shots, and even then, he's got rep as not always being engaged.

Of course, that has been established whether or not it's true. This years draft could end up being one of those sleeper drafts. As for Sarr, every single player ever picked save for a very select handful, could have ended up as a bust. That means zero here. Perceived value is what is important in an NBA draft, which directly goes back to the perception that this draft is terrible, or really low on high-end talent.

My point is, adding the #1 pick in a deal is always a great sweetener, as opposed to the #5 pick which is obviously a value decline.

What I find interesting is I see people saying "this draft sucks" and also people saying "adding the top pick to a deal like that is a huge overpay."

Ok, well which is it?

OK, I guess we can put you firmly in the camp of those who are going to be massively disappointed about the haul we will get for trading our that pick or young players. Your perceived values seems wildly out of touch with what the rest of the league perceives. And we aren't talking about the pick being a sweetener. It's the main asset we have to trade and it's not bringing back an all-star without bundling multiple young talents with it.

Actually, im the one whos been saying;

Trade everyone but Cade/Tek for the one player to out next to Cade.

Ausar+Ivey+Stewart+#1 pick for Markkanen. See if Ainge will bite. If not throw in Duren as well.

Ausar+Ivey+Duren+Stewart+#1 pick for Markkanen.

Both trades work. I attach minimal value to the Pistons assets, but when you offer up that for Markkanen, even Ainge is going to be interested.

I am about properly building around Cade, and shuttling everyone else.

Edit* I'll also add that I am very well aware I'm going to be disappointed, but not by the value. Dont care. Gonna be disappointed because the front office is a trainwreck and either won't do anything, or will do the wrong thing.

[ahike12]

^^^^ To add to the Cade build-around, which I agree with, I also think the number of games he's played this year is not a true representation of what he would have played. We were in FULL tank mode. He was beasting post-All Star break. I think his injury/surgery history was a convenient way to shut him down. Granted, I know it's not bumping him up to 75 games, but I truly think he plays more games this year if we're not as bad as we were.

[MotownMadness]

Of course, that has been established whether or not it's true. This years draft could end up being one of those sleeper drafts. As for Sarr, every single player ever picked save for a very select handful, could have ended up as a bust. That means zero here. Perceived value is what is important in an NBA draft, which directly goes back to the perception that this draft is terrible, or really low on high-end talent.

My point is, adding the #1 pick in a deal is always a great sweetener, as opposed to the #5 pick which is obviously a value decline.

What I find interesting is I see people saying "this draft sucks" and also people saying "adding the top pick to a deal like that is a huge overpay."

Ok, well which is it?

OK, I guess we can put you firmly in the camp of those who are going to be massively disappointed about the haul we will get for trading our that pick or young players. Your perceived values seems wildly out of touch with what the rest of the league perceives. And we aren't talking about the pick being a sweetener. It's the main asset we have to trade and it's not bringing back an all-star without bundling multiple young talents with it.

Actually, im the one whos been saying;

Trade everyone but Cade/Tek for the one player to out next to Cade.

Ausar+Ivey+Stewart+#1 pick for Markkanen. See if Ainge will bite. If not throw in Duren as well.

Ausar+Ivey+Duren+Stewart+#1 pick for Markkanen.

Both trades work. I attach minimal value to the Pistons assets, but when you offer up that for Markkanen, even Ainge is going to be interested.

I am about properly building around Cade, and shuttling everyone else.

Edit* I'll also add that I am very well aware I'm going to be disappointed, but not by the value. Dont care. Gonna be disappointed because the front office is a trainwreck and either won't do anything, or will do the wrong thing.

We should keep Ausar

We still need a good young prospect and hes a jump shot away from big impact

[ComboGuardCity]

Beef stew + our pick for Murray

Ivey, filler, future pick for Ingram

Sign Tyus Jones

Sign TJ Warren

Sign Drummond

2 iterations of starting 5

Defense:

Cade
Murray
BI
Ausar
Duren

Balance:
Cade
Murray
BI
Tech
Duren

Bench:
Tyus Jones
Grimes
Ausar
TJ Warren
Drummond

Yes to Tyus Jones and ew to Drummond lol

I have a soft spot for Dre. He always seemed to embrace Detroit but just wasn’t good enough to be the guy. He’s an elite backup big.

[theBigLip]

I’m willing to trade if we get value, but our young guys on rookie deals are assets and they have positive value. It’s not about the team and wins, which we are all disappointed with, but it’s about talent and potential compared to their contracts. We really don’t have any bad contracts. Wiseman and Fournier don’t count because we are not obligated to pay them next year.

Sure there are questions when it’s time for extensions. But for right now, we have a half dozen guys that are legit NBA players. Maybe only Cade and Fontecchio are starters on a good team. Ausar, Ivey, Duren, Sasser, Stewart? They are all going to continue to get better and are at least rotation worthy players. Maybe Grimes too if he can come back 100% healthy.

So when I look at this offseason, I’m looking at getting 2-3 starters with our cap space. Maybe 2 at $30M each, or 3 at $20M each. Guys like Monk we don’t have to trade for, just spend some money. If we add 3, plus Sarr or Risacher, that’s 11 players that are playable.

So I’m not so eager to just trade everyone to get Lauri or Ingram. We need to be wise with our assets.

[Crymson]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but here we go. Sadly, this offseason is not replete with meaningful opportunities for the Pistons to improve. And there's little cause for a team in the position of this one to sacrifice anything of the future for the sake of being a below-average team rather than a bad one. I think that anyone who's expecting major improvement is likely to be disappointed. Unless, that is, the incoming PoBO is directed by Gores to emphasize the now. In that event, we're looking at a possible return to chasing mediocrity.

I think it's also worth mentioning that other teams have the same agenda of serving themselves as the Pistons do. They're not going to go out of their way to help the Pistons become a better team by making disadvantageous trades.

So when I look at this offseason, I’m looking at getting 2-3 starters with our cap space. Maybe 2 at $30M each, or 3 at $20M each. Guys like Monk we don’t have to trade for, just spend some money. If we add 3, plus Sarr or Risacher, that’s 11 players that are playable. So I’m not so eager to just trade everyone to get Lauri or Ingram. We need to be wise with our assets.

Have you looked at the list of available free agents? Free agency is nowhere near as good a source of talent as it was ten or even five years ago, and this is an especially weak class. And though the Pistons will have the most cap space, they'll be competing for the few plum free agents with teams which are in substantially better straits (that is, they've really got something going for them right now whereas the Pistons are the league's prominent disaster team).

Ainge has placed so high a price on Lauri that he's unlikely to be going anywhere. And when he sets an asking price, he doesn't budge.

I have mixed opinions on KAT. Even though he fills our PF hole, I hope we don’t take on monstrous contracts. $30M range is ok. $50M for multiple years is so risky - if it doesn’t work out, you’re stuck for years.

The Timberwolves have no cause to get worse, and this would make them worse. Unless Taylor is simply unwilling to pay the tax, expect KAT to stay where he is unless he can bring back a comparable talent in a trade. The second apron is nowhere near as punishing as uninformed opinion believes it to be.

Atlanta is 5 minutes from the end of their season. Tray Young is not worth his contract. Him or Murray (or both) are gone for sure.

Hunter? Murray?

Hunter improved this season as a player but is chronically injured. Murray wouldn't be worth the cost given his overlap with Cade. The issue with he and Trae as a duo is that they're both best by far on the ball. Acquiring him would mean recreating that problem in Detroit, and the Hawks have every reason to not dump him at a bargain price. They don't own their first-round picks until 2028, so they've got nothing to gain and something to lose by simply becoming a worse team.

If you’re confident in Cade you don’t want to trade for Trae Young.

Trae would cost a king's ransom, especially given Atlanta's draft situation. And aye, he'd be a dreadful fit with Cade.

I want the pelicans to miss the playoffs and then go after BI.

Overlap with Cade. Guaranteed to miss at least a quarter of every season due to injuries. Questionable attitude. Expiring contract. And the Pelicans have no reason to get worse by selling him for cheap. Better to keep him and have a greater chance of contending next season.

I’d be happy with grant if he’s happy to be the 3rd option. His shooting and defence would be ideal next to duren

Grant would be a good get, but there's no telling what Portland would ask. They've got no reason to sell cheap on a strong two-way veteran who's as ideal a stabilizer for their youth as he was for ours.

Simons might be a more realistic get, but he's a poor defender and struggles to stay healthy.

Me too. I'd still love to poach him and Brogdan into our cap space. Cade and Ivey really need a vet presence at PG to settle the team down and provide that leadership we desperately need.

Brogdon's health issues are of such major concern that they almost torpedoed the offseason trade in which the Celtics sent him out, and he yet again missed an enormous amount of time due to injury. He's of very limited use if he can't stay on the court.

Yes to Tyus Jones and ew to Drummond lol

Tyus has made it clear that he's intent on being a starter. And his assets best suit him to serve as a primary handler.

Anyone asking for Drummond probably hasn't paid attention to how he's aged. He's now a slow, below-average backup who can't defend in space and can't play above the rim. He was already too immobile to play reliable minutes in the postseason two years ago. And he's still just as bad as ever as a scorer.

[theBigLip]

Sadly, this offseason is not replete with meaningful opportunities for the Pistons to improve.

Top 5 draft pick and $70M+ in cap space. I think your statement is just not accurate.

Have you looked at the list of available free agents? Free agency is nowhere near as good a source of talent as it was ten or even five years ago, and this is an especially weak class. And though the Pistons will have the most cap space, they'll be competing for the few plum free agents with teams which are in substantially better straits (that is, they've really got something going for them right now whereas the Pistons are the league's prominent disaster team).

I and many others have posted this consistently - this isn't a "bad free agent" year. Free agency has permanently changed. If you're talking about a bad free agent class you're not paying attention. What, you think no one is going to change teams this summer just because players are under contract? Please. There are some legit UFAs, but there will be a lot of trades.

The Timberwolves have no cause to get worse, and this would make them worse. Unless Taylor is simply unwilling to pay the tax, expect KAT to stay where he is unless he can bring back a comparable talent in a trade. The second apron is nowhere near as punishing as uninformed opinion believes it to be.

First of all, I posted that I'm very leery about taking on KATs contract. But how far have the Timberwolves ever been in the playoffs this last decade? If they get bumped again in the first round, are they really just going to run it back?

And thank you for the informed opinion on the 2nd apron, which hasn't even taken effect yet. My opinion (apparently uniformed) is that 2nd apron is ok if you're winning championships. The Warriors paying huge luxury tax is a very recent example of that. But if you're getting bounced in the first round? It is not worth it and restricts the moves you can make.

Also, it may take a year for the punishment of the 2nd apron to be truly felt. So at this point we both just have opinions.

(Added for context: Ingram is an...) Overlap with Cade. Guaranteed to miss at least a quarter of every season due to injuries. Questionable attitude. Expiring contract. And the Pelicans have no reason to get worse by selling him for cheap. Better to keep him and have a greater chance of contending next season.

Pelicans might not even make it through the play in (shame about Zion). I don't recall the Pelicans ever being big spenders. So keep Ingram and don't extend some of their great young players? Or are you predicting the Pelicans are just going to start spending into the luxury tax to maybe make it to the second round?

So it's great to be a critic and everyone else's ideas suck apparently. Any suggestions of what to do, besides the overused and boring "Fire everyone. Trade everyone. Start from scratch."?

[thesack12]

Sadly, this offseason is not replete with meaningful opportunities for the Pistons to improve.

Top 5 draft pick and $70M+ in cap space. I think your statement is just not accurate.

These things should certainly be avenues to be able to improve, yet the Pistons have had a top 5 pick + gobs of cap space going into each of the previous 3 offseason and have managed to somehow regress.

This offseason specifically features an almost universally panned draft, and a free agent class that isn't gong to inspire anyone.

So it's great to be a critic and everyone else's ideas suck apparently. Any suggestions of what to do, besides the overused and boring "Fire everyone. Trade everyone. Start from scratch."?

It may be "overused and boring", but firing everyone and starting from scratch sure does seem like the obvious direction that should be taken.

[theBigLip]

Sadly, this offseason is not replete with meaningful opportunities for the Pistons to improve.

Top 5 draft pick and $70M+ in cap space. I think your statement is just not accurate.

These things should certainly be avenues to be able to improve, yet the Pistons have had a top 5 pick + gobs of cap space going into each of the previous 3 offseason and have managed to somehow regress.

This offseason specifically features an almost universally panned draft, and a free agent class that isn't gong to inspire anyone.

So it's great to be a critic and everyone else's ideas suck apparently. Any suggestions of what to do, besides the overused and boring "Fire everyone. Trade everyone. Start from scratch."?

It may be "overused and boring", but firing everyone and starting from scratch sure does seem like the obvious direction that should be taken.

It’s the same discussion that’s been going on all season. Injuries on top of horrible lottery luck hasn’t helped, and last year we wanted playing time for the young guys so the free agents were intentionally expiring deals.

On the draft, we could have easily got Wemby, Chet, Paolo or Miller, possibly even more than one. But we didn’t. So here we are.

We got young players on good contracts. There has been improvement. We don’t have any bad contracts. If you look at the current roster and think of them as rotation players (except Cade and Tek), then it doesn’t look so bad. The big question is can we pick up 2-3 starters this offseason? We have the assets to make that happen.

[Invictus88]

Top 5 draft pick and $70M+ in cap space. I think your statement is just not accurate.

These things should certainly be avenues to be able to improve, yet the Pistons have had a top 5 pick + gobs of cap space going into each of the previous 3 offseason and have managed to somehow regress.

This offseason specifically features an almost universally panned draft, and a free agent class that isn't gong to inspire anyone.

So it's great to be a critic and everyone else's ideas suck apparently. Any suggestions of what to do, besides the overused and boring "Fire everyone. Trade everyone. Start from scratch."?

It may be "overused and boring", but firing everyone and starting from scratch sure does seem like the obvious direction that should be taken.

It’s the same discussion that’s been going on all season. Injuries on top of horrible lottery luck hasn’t helped, and last year we wanted playing time for the young guys so the free agents were intentionally expiring deals.

On the draft, we could have easily got Wemby, Chet, Paolo or Miller, possibly even more than one. But we didn’t. So here we are.

We got young players on good contracts. There has been improvement. We don’t have any bad contracts. If you look at the current roster and think of them as rotation players (except Cade and Tek), then it doesn’t look so bad. The big question is can we pick up 2-3 starters this offseason? We have the assets to make that happen.

Let's look at this another way:

We know that there have been communication problems and differences of opinion within the organization. There is a problem here. The fact that Gores and the Pistons announced they are looking for a president of basketball operations is indisputable proof of this.

No amount af attempts by you to positively spin the conversation in favor of current staff can overcome this TBL.

Now. If this is the case and you are going to hire a person to do this job then what are you accomplishing by keeping the old regime in place underneath? You otherwise would just be adding another voice into an already crowded and dysfunctional situation.

Simply stated, if the Pistons as an organization have committed to going this route (and they've stated publicly that they have) then they pretty much have to clean house underneath to have a chance at success.

Frankly, it's long overdue.

Please get rid of all of the people behind the skeezy good ole boys nepotism and handshake alliances that have persisted long after they've shown to be ineffective at their jobs. Clean house and get guys in here whose singular motivation is to make the Pistons be the best at basketball. It would be nice to finally see that again.



P.S. : Letting the current regime try to save their jobs by signing marginal players which happen to be available to huge contracts is a scenario we've seen already.

We saw it with Ben Gordon. We saw it with Smoove. We saw it with Blake Griffin and Leuer. The devastation caused by these types of moves is just terrible. And waiting until afterwards to fire them is way too late.

We just won 14 games in a season our regime said it was dedicated to winning in. It's over.

[theBigLip]

These things should certainly be avenues to be able to improve, yet the Pistons have had a top 5 pick + gobs of cap space going into each of the previous 3 offseason and have managed to somehow regress.

This offseason specifically features an almost universally panned draft, and a free agent class that isn't gong to inspire anyone.



It may be "overused and boring", but firing everyone and starting from scratch sure does seem like the obvious direction that should be taken.

It’s the same discussion that’s been going on all season. Injuries on top of horrible lottery luck hasn’t helped, and last year we wanted playing time for the young guys so the free agents were intentionally expiring deals.

On the draft, we could have easily got Wemby, Chet, Paolo or Miller, possibly even more than one. But we didn’t. So here we are.

We got young players on good contracts. There has been improvement. We don’t have any bad contracts. If you look at the current roster and think of them as rotation players (except Cade and Tek), then it doesn’t look so bad. The big question is can we pick up 2-3 starters this offseason? We have the assets to make that happen.

Let's look at this another way:

We know that there have been communication problems and differences of opinion within the organization. There is a problem here. The fact that Gores and the Pistons announced they are looking for a president of basketball operations is indisputable proof of this.

No amount af attempts by you to positively spin the conversation in favor of current staff can overcome this TBL.

Now. If this is the case and you are going to hire a person to do this job then what are you accomplishing by keeping the old regime in place underneath? You otherwise would just be adding another voice into an already crowded and dysfunctional situation.

Simply stated, if the Pistons as an organization have committed to going this route (and they've stated publicly that they have) then they pretty much have to clean house underneath to have a chance at success.

Frankly, it's long overdue.

Please get rid of all of the people behind the skeezy good ole boys nepotism and handshake alliances that have persisted long after they've shown to be ineffective at their jobs. Clean house and get guys in here whose singular motivation is to make the Pistons be the best at basketball. It would be nice to finally see that again.



P.S. : Letting the current regime try to save their jobs by signing marginal players which happen to be available to huge contracts is a scenario we've seen already.

We saw it with Ben Gordon. We saw it with Smoove. We saw it with Blake Griffin and Leuer. The devastation caused by these types of moves is just terrible. And waiting until afterwards to fire them is way too late.

We just won 14 games in a season our regime said it was dedicated to winning in. It's over.

Good points. Yes, I do try to stay positive and look forward (in Pistons and in life). But I’m not as tied to the current regime as I am with the plan. We are in a good place to make a huge, Lions like jump next year.

I’m not sure if the new guy in the front office is going to be smarter than the current regime. But regardless, whoever makes the decisions, I feel the success of this whole rebuild comes down to this offseason. If we overpay to get Lavine and Tobias, we fail. If we get, for example, Monk, Ingram and Duncan Robinson or Miles Bridges, without trading away our entire team, things get interesting.

[thesack12]

Top 5 draft pick and $70M+ in cap space. I think your statement is just not accurate.

These things should certainly be avenues to be able to improve, yet the Pistons have had a top 5 pick + gobs of cap space going into each of the previous 3 offseason and have managed to somehow regress.

This offseason specifically features an almost universally panned draft, and a free agent class that isn't gong to inspire anyone.

So it's great to be a critic and everyone else's ideas suck apparently. Any suggestions of what to do, besides the overused and boring "Fire everyone. Trade everyone. Start from scratch."?

It may be "overused and boring", but firing everyone and starting from scratch sure does seem like the obvious direction that should be taken.

It’s the same discussion that’s been going on all season. Injuries on top of horrible lottery luck hasn’t helped, and last year we wanted playing time for the young guys so the free agents were intentionally expiring deals.

On the draft, we could have easily got Wemby, Chet, Paolo or Miller, possibly even more than one. But we didn’t. So here we are.

We got young players on good contracts. There has been improvement. We don’t have any bad contracts. If you look at the current roster and think of them as rotation players (except Cade and Tek), then it doesn’t look so bad. The big question is can we pick up 2-3 starters this offseason? We have the assets to make that happen.

Injuries definitely aren't among the primary reasons why this team is perennially terrible. This is an poorly run team, with an ill fitting roster that's low on talent while being terribly coached to boot.

Crying over the spilled milk of cruddy lottery luck, is futile. You even allude to that yourself when you say "here we are." Every team in the league can bemoan their lottery results and say what if ______? Using a real life reference, that would be like saying well you know if my scratch off would of hit that top prize of 50 grand, my house wouldn't have went into foreclosure.

Sure, getting the desirable results helps your outlook but when you are talking about things based on chance you can't count on those. You have to live with the results and adapt, not use crud luck as an excuse.

Regarding lottery luck in this year's draft, it sure appears that there are no Wembys, Paolos, Chets, or even Millers in it. Thats not to say that somebody, won't emerge and become a top player. But going into this draft, there is basically no seperation or clear tiers amongst the prospects. So I don't know how much Detroit is going to improve via the draft this year.

Yeah Detroit has youth, and some of that youth has upside. However time is starting to run out in regards to that upside coming to fruition. Pistons are already staring down the barrel of a max extension for Cade. If that happens, if substantially limits the cap flexibility moving forward and then you have to figure out what to do with Ivey, and Duren. Do we think that a "big 3" of Cade/Ivey/Duren isn't going to get Detroit back to being a legit contender? I don't, personally.

While Detroit may not currently have any bad contracts, that could change rather quickly. A full max for Cade could wind up being a regrettable decision. Overpaying C and D level free agents like Malik Monk, Toppin, Jalen Smith, etc is a classic recipe for creating bad contracts.

Then you have the added potential layer, of dudes like Weaver starting to get real desperate to save their jobs. A desperate GM is never a good equation for the longer term outlook of a team.

I can appreciate people trying to be optimistic, but its a classic trying to put lipstick on a pig type of situation.

[Canadafan]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but here we go. Sadly, this offseason is not replete with meaningful opportunities for the Pistons to improve. And there's little cause for a team in the position of this one to sacrifice anything of the future for the sake of being a below-average team rather than a bad one. I think that anyone who's expecting major improvement is likely to be disappointed. Unless, that is, the incoming PoBO is directed by Gores to emphasize the now. In that event, we're looking at a possible return to chasing mediocrity.

I think it's also worth mentioning that other teams have the same agenda of serving themselves as the Pistons do. They're not going to go out of their way to help the Pistons become a better team by making disadvantageous trades.

So when I look at this offseason, I’m looking at getting 2-3 starters with our cap space. Maybe 2 at $30M each, or 3 at $20M each. Guys like Monk we don’t have to trade for, just spend some money. If we add 3, plus Sarr or Risacher, that’s 11 players that are playable. So I’m not so eager to just trade everyone to get Lauri or Ingram. We need to be wise with our assets.

Have you looked at the list of available free agents? Free agency is nowhere near as good a source of talent as it was ten or even five years ago, and this is an especially weak class. And though the Pistons will have the most cap space, they'll be competing for the few plum free agents with teams which are in substantially better straits (that is, they've really got something going for them right now whereas the Pistons are the league's prominent disaster team).

Ainge has placed so high a price on Lauri that he's unlikely to be going anywhere. And when he sets an asking price, he doesn't budge.

I have mixed opinions on KAT. Even though he fills our PF hole, I hope we don’t take on monstrous contracts. $30M range is ok. $50M for multiple years is so risky - if it doesn’t work out, you’re stuck for years.

The Timberwolves have no cause to get worse, and this would make them worse. Unless Taylor is simply unwilling to pay the tax, expect KAT to stay where he is unless he can bring back a comparable talent in a trade. The second apron is nowhere near as punishing as uninformed opinion believes it to be.

Atlanta is 5 minutes from the end of their season. Tray Young is not worth his contract. Him or Murray (or both) are gone for sure.

Hunter? Murray?

Hunter improved this season as a player but is chronically injured. Murray wouldn't be worth the cost given his overlap with Cade. The issue with he and Trae as a duo is that they're both best by far on the ball. Acquiring him would mean recreating that problem in Detroit, and the Hawks have every reason to not dump him at a bargain price. They don't own their first-round picks until 2028, so they've got nothing to gain and something to lose by simply becoming a worse team.

If you’re confident in Cade you don’t want to trade for Trae Young.

Trae would cost a king's ransom, especially given Atlanta's draft situation. And aye, he'd be a dreadful fit with Cade.

I want the pelicans to miss the playoffs and then go after BI.

Overlap with Cade. Guaranteed to miss at least a quarter of every season due to injuries. Questionable attitude. Expiring contract. And the Pelicans have no reason to get worse by selling him for cheap. Better to keep him and have a greater chance of contending next season.

I’d be happy with grant if he’s happy to be the 3rd option. His shooting and defence would be ideal next to duren

Grant would be a good get, but there's no telling what Portland would ask. They've got no reason to sell cheap on a strong two-way veteran who's as ideal a stabilizer for their youth as he was for ours.

Simons might be a more realistic get, but he's a poor defender and struggles to stay healthy.

Me too. I'd still love to poach him and Brogdan into our cap space. Cade and Ivey really need a vet presence at PG to settle the team down and provide that leadership we desperately need.

Brogdon's health issues are of such major concern that they almost torpedoed the offseason trade in which the Celtics sent him out, and he yet again missed an enormous amount of time due to injury. He's of very limited use if he can't stay on the court.

Yes to Tyus Jones and ew to Drummond lol

Tyus has made it clear that he's intent on being a starter. And his assets best suit him to serve as a primary handler.

Anyone asking for Drummond probably hasn't paid attention to how he's aged. He's now a slow, below-average backup who can't defend in space and can't play above the rim. He was already too immobile to play reliable minutes in the postseason two years ago. And he's still just as bad as ever as a scorer.

Lmao I luv how you quote multiple people. Don't know how to do it, impressive lol
I also luv your bluntness.
I throw so much crap out there that I don't get offended when you or most others disagree. My passion for this team is only rivaled by most of you guys out here. That's why we're all here!
I'd luv Tyus as a starter for us. Ivey can be 6th man or trade fodder if we were luck to get tyus. I believe he'd be a great fit with Cade. There's nothing wrong with 2 guys that can playmake. Plus he doesn't dominate the ball as much as Cade.
I also envision Cade Ausur and and another long over 6'7 defender type that can obviously hopefully hit 3s. Harper Jordan Pipen 2.0 at the perimeter spots defensively would be glorious (again, I'm aware I'm just randomly throwing thoughts out there that don't necessarily make sense since Cade isn't really a known defender. But I'd luv another guy like ausur there)

[Canadafan]

It’s the same discussion that’s been going on all season. Injuries on top of horrible lottery luck hasn’t helped, and last year we wanted playing time for the young guys so the free agents were intentionally expiring deals.

On the draft, we could have easily got Wemby, Chet, Paolo or Miller, possibly even more than one. But we didn’t. So here we are.

We got young players on good contracts. There has been improvement. We don’t have any bad contracts. If you look at the current roster and think of them as rotation players (except Cade and Tek), then it doesn’t look so bad. The big question is can we pick up 2-3 starters this offseason? We have the assets to make that happen.

Let's look at this another way:

We know that there have been communication problems and differences of opinion within the organization. There is a problem here. The fact that Gores and the Pistons announced they are looking for a president of basketball operations is indisputable proof of this.

No amount af attempts by you to positively spin the conversation in favor of current staff can overcome this TBL.

Now. If this is the case and you are going to hire a person to do this job then what are you accomplishing by keeping the old regime in place underneath? You otherwise would just be adding another voice into an already crowded and dysfunctional situation.

Simply stated, if the Pistons as an organization have committed to going this route (and they've stated publicly that they have) then they pretty much have to clean house underneath to have a chance at success.

Frankly, it's long overdue.

Please get rid of all of the people behind the skeezy good ole boys nepotism and handshake alliances that have persisted long after they've shown to be ineffective at their jobs. Clean house and get guys in here whose singular motivation is to make the Pistons be the best at basketball. It would be nice to finally see that again.



P.S. : Letting the current regime try to save their jobs by signing marginal players which happen to be available to huge contracts is a scenario we've seen already.

We saw it with Ben Gordon. We saw it with Smoove. We saw it with Blake Griffin and Leuer. The devastation caused by these types of moves is just terrible. And waiting until afterwards to fire them is way too late.

We just won 14 games in a season our regime said it was dedicated to winning in. It's over.

Good points. Yes, I do try to stay positive and look forward (in Pistons and in life). But I’m not as tied to the current regime as I am with the plan. We are in a good place to make a huge, Lions like jump next year.

I’m not sure if the new guy in the front office is going to be smarter than the current regime. But regardless, whoever makes the decisions, I feel the success of this whole rebuild comes down to this offseason. If we overpay to get Lavine and Tobias, we fail. If we get, for example, Monk, Ingram and Duncan Robinson or Miles Bridges, without trading away our entire team, things get interesting.

Ya Biglip, dats right. Stay positive brotha. I'm with ya.
Sounds nutty, but I'd be OK with making our draft pick. And signing 2 dudes that normally would get MLE type money and we would have to just overpay a bit.
That would make us 8 deep. With rookie Grimes Sasser for 9th+10th spot

[Invictus88]

Let's look at this another way:

We know that there have been communication problems and differences of opinion within the organization. There is a problem here. The fact that Gores and the Pistons announced they are looking for a president of basketball operations is indisputable proof of this.

No amount af attempts by you to positively spin the conversation in favor of current staff can overcome this TBL.

Now. If this is the case and you are going to hire a person to do this job then what are you accomplishing by keeping the old regime in place underneath? You otherwise would just be adding another voice into an already crowded and dysfunctional situation.

Simply stated, if the Pistons as an organization have committed to going this route (and they've stated publicly that they have) then they pretty much have to clean house underneath to have a chance at success.

Frankly, it's long overdue.

Please get rid of all of the people behind the skeezy good ole boys nepotism and handshake alliances that have persisted long after they've shown to be ineffective at their jobs. Clean house and get guys in here whose singular motivation is to make the Pistons be the best at basketball. It would be nice to finally see that again.



P.S. : Letting the current regime try to save their jobs by signing marginal players which happen to be available to huge contracts is a scenario we've seen already.

We saw it with Ben Gordon. We saw it with Smoove. We saw it with Blake Griffin and Leuer. The devastation caused by these types of moves is just terrible. And waiting until afterwards to fire them is way too late.

We just won 14 games in a season our regime said it was dedicated to winning in. It's over.

Good points. Yes, I do try to stay positive and look forward (in Pistons and in life). But I’m not as tied to the current regime as I am with the plan. We are in a good place to make a huge, Lions like jump next year.

I’m not sure if the new guy in the front office is going to be smarter than the current regime. But regardless, whoever makes the decisions, I feel the success of this whole rebuild comes down to this offseason. If we overpay to get Lavine and Tobias, we fail. If we get, for example, Monk, Ingram and Duncan Robinson or Miles Bridges, without trading away our entire team, things get interesting.

Ya Biglip, dats right. Stay positive brotha. I'm with ya.
Sounds nutty, but I'd be OK with making our draft pick. And signing 2 dudes that normally would get MLE type money and we would have to just overpay a bit.
That would make us 8 deep. With rookie Grimes Sasser for 9th+10th spot

So you think adding "2 dudes that normally would get MLE type money" + players from roster that just went 14-68 + 1 draft pick will be enough to make significant strides next year? Especially if we otherwise keep the status quo w.r.t. to management/coaching?

There is a definition of insanity out there that says otherwise...