Playoff Losers = Trade Opportunities

[theBigLip]

Good points. Yes, I do try to stay positive and look forward (in Pistons and in life). But I’m not as tied to the current regime as I am with the plan. We are in a good place to make a huge, Lions like jump next year.

I’m not sure if the new guy in the front office is going to be smarter than the current regime. But regardless, whoever makes the decisions, I feel the success of this whole rebuild comes down to this offseason. If we overpay to get Lavine and Tobias, we fail. If we get, for example, Monk, Ingram and Duncan Robinson or Miles Bridges, without trading away our entire team, things get interesting.

Ya Biglip, dats right. Stay positive brotha. I'm with ya.
Sounds nutty, but I'd be OK with making our draft pick. And signing 2 dudes that normally would get MLE type money and we would have to just overpay a bit.
That would make us 8 deep. With rookie Grimes Sasser for 9th+10th spot

So you think adding "2 dudes that normally would get MLE type money" + players from roster that just went 14-68 + 1 draft pick will be enough to make significant strides next year? Especially if we otherwise keep the status quo w.r.t. to management/coaching?

There is a definition of insanity out there that says otherwise...

Hoping for three guys. One of them probably MLE level and two others above that. And keeping our pick is okay if there isn’t a good trade available. I’m sure Sarr and Risacher are both legit starters eventually. Don’t throw them away if we don’t have to.

[Canadafan]

Good points. Yes, I do try to stay positive and look forward (in Pistons and in life). But I’m not as tied to the current regime as I am with the plan. We are in a good place to make a huge, Lions like jump next year.

I’m not sure if the new guy in the front office is going to be smarter than the current regime. But regardless, whoever makes the decisions, I feel the success of this whole rebuild comes down to this offseason. If we overpay to get Lavine and Tobias, we fail. If we get, for example, Monk, Ingram and Duncan Robinson or Miles Bridges, without trading away our entire team, things get interesting.

Ya Biglip, dats right. Stay positive brotha. I'm with ya.
Sounds nutty, but I'd be OK with making our draft pick. And signing 2 dudes that normally would get MLE type money and we would have to just overpay a bit.
That would make us 8 deep. With rookie Grimes Sasser for 9th+10th spot

So you think adding "2 dudes that normally would get MLE type money" + players from roster that just went 14-68 + 1 draft pick will be enough to make significant strides next year? Especially if we otherwise keep the status quo w.r.t. to management/coaching?

There is a definition of insanity out there that says otherwise...

I just believe no matter what we do we won't get that much better. I'd almost rather not trade away our young guys and just get incrementally better by adding a couple good vets and making our draft pick. Let the young guys growwwww

[Cowology]

Ya Biglip, dats right. Stay positive brotha. I'm with ya.
Sounds nutty, but I'd be OK with making our draft pick. And signing 2 dudes that normally would get MLE type money and we would have to just overpay a bit.
That would make us 8 deep. With rookie Grimes Sasser for 9th+10th spot

So you think adding "2 dudes that normally would get MLE type money" + players from roster that just went 14-68 + 1 draft pick will be enough to make significant strides next year? Especially if we otherwise keep the status quo w.r.t. to management/coaching?

There is a definition of insanity out there that says otherwise...

I just believe no matter what we do we won't get that much better. I'd almost rather not trade away our young guys and just get incrementally better by adding a couple good vets and making our draft pick. Let the young guys growwwww

I like where your head is at, but I'm hung up on fit. Letting the guys continue to develop sounds great, but the core skillset we most need is absent. Neither draft or FA will fix that. At least 1 of (and possibly more) Ivey, Duren & Ausar need to be swapped out for a reliable shooter. Simply plugging holes around them isn't enough.

Ivey is obviously the guy who's shown the most potential, but his hot streak is looking more like Hayes hot streak; a beneficial anomaly and not some precursor or indicator that he's actually turned the corner. Still, IF he could stay above 36% on 3's that would help. Still not sure you can run Duren/Ausar with them.

I like all these guys, but too many overlapping deficiencies. Ivey + Duren + pick is still where I'd be looking in terms of packages, but realistically we might just need to do a 1-for-1 flip with another ill-fitting rookie contact. Need more 3&D.

[theBigLip]

Not surprisingly, add Chicago to the list. Although if they ran it back for this season, I’m guessing they will do the same next season too. Certainly don’t want to touch Lavine and it’s scary that Detroit keeps getting mentioned in association with him. Of course every team could use Caruso, but I don’t think he’s going anywhere.

[MotownMadness]

Not surprisingly, add Chicago to the list. Although if they ran it back for this season, I’m guessing they will do the same next season too. Certainly don’t want to touch Lavine and it’s scary that Detroit keeps getting mentioned in association with him. Of course every team could use Caruso, but I don’t think he’s going anywhere.

That Lavine injury should of killed off any worry of him. Chicago really needs to hit a full reset.

[Canadafan]

So you think adding "2 dudes that normally would get MLE type money" + players from roster that just went 14-68 + 1 draft pick will be enough to make significant strides next year? Especially if we otherwise keep the status quo w.r.t. to management/coaching?

There is a definition of insanity out there that says otherwise...

I just believe no matter what we do we won't get that much better. I'd almost rather not trade away our young guys and just get incrementally better by adding a couple good vets and making our draft pick. Let the young guys growwwww

I like where your head is at, but I'm hung up on fit. Letting the guys continue to develop sounds great, but the core skillset we most need is absent. Neither draft or FA will fix that. At least 1 of (and possibly more) Ivey, Duren & Ausar need to be swapped out for a reliable shooter. Simply plugging holes around them isn't enough.

Ivey is obviously the guy who's shown the most potential, but his hot streak is looking more like Hayes hot streak; a beneficial anomaly and not some precursor or indicator that he's actually turned the corner. Still, IF he could stay above 36% on 3's that would help. Still not sure you can run Duren/Ausar with them.

I like all these guys, but too many overlapping deficiencies. Ivey + Duren + pick is still where I'd be looking in terms of packages, but realistically we might just need to do a 1-for-1 flip with another ill-fitting rookie contact. Need more 3&D.

https://pistonpowered.com/posts/stan-van-gundy-drops-hard-truths-about-detroit-pistons-core

SVG agrees with you lol

[Cowology]

I just believe no matter what we do we won't get that much better. I'd almost rather not trade away our young guys and just get incrementally better by adding a couple good vets and making our draft pick. Let the young guys growwwww

I like where your head is at, but I'm hung up on fit. Letting the guys continue to develop sounds great, but the core skillset we most need is absent. Neither draft or FA will fix that. At least 1 of (and possibly more) Ivey, Duren & Ausar need to be swapped out for a reliable shooter. Simply plugging holes around them isn't enough.

Ivey is obviously the guy who's shown the most potential, but his hot streak is looking more like Hayes hot streak; a beneficial anomaly and not some precursor or indicator that he's actually turned the corner. Still, IF he could stay above 36% on 3's that would help. Still not sure you can run Duren/Ausar with them.

I like all these guys, but too many overlapping deficiencies. Ivey + Duren + pick is still where I'd be looking in terms of packages, but realistically we might just need to do a 1-for-1 flip with another ill-fitting rookie contact. Need more 3&D.

https://pistonpowered.com/posts/stan-van-gundy-drops-hard-truths-about-detroit-pistons-core

SVG agrees with you lol

[zeebneeb]

OK, I guess we can put you firmly in the camp of those who are going to be massively disappointed about the haul we will get for trading our that pick or young players. Your perceived values seems wildly out of touch with what the rest of the league perceives. And we aren't talking about the pick being a sweetener. It's the main asset we have to trade and it's not bringing back an all-star without bundling multiple young talents with it.

Actually, im the one whos been saying;

Trade everyone but Cade/Tek for the one player to out next to Cade.

Ausar+Ivey+Stewart+#1 pick for Markkanen. See if Ainge will bite. If not throw in Duren as well.

Ausar+Ivey+Duren+Stewart+#1 pick for Markkanen.

Both trades work. I attach minimal value to the Pistons assets, but when you offer up that for Markkanen, even Ainge is going to be interested.

I am about properly building around Cade, and shuttling everyone else.

Edit* I'll also add that I am very well aware I'm going to be disappointed, but not by the value. Dont care. Gonna be disappointed because the front office is a trainwreck and either won't do anything, or will do the wrong thing.

We should keep Ausar

We still need a good young prospect and hes a jump shot away from big impact

Ausar is, without question, right next to Cade in terms of impact, and if he had even a 32% three pointer, all-nba is in his future.

With that said; .186%

Now, if you can point to a player, that has ever overcome that percentage, and became even respectable from deep, im willing to have some hope. I also want to add that Ausar is a .597% free throw shooter, so the hill is steep here.

I love Ausars defense, hustle, heart, and energy. Amazing. If you have shooting at the Center position, then you can keep Ausar.

One position can lack shooting, not two.

[MotownMadness]

Actually, im the one whos been saying;

Trade everyone but Cade/Tek for the one player to out next to Cade.

Ausar+Ivey+Stewart+#1 pick for Markkanen. See if Ainge will bite. If not throw in Duren as well.

Ausar+Ivey+Duren+Stewart+#1 pick for Markkanen.

Both trades work. I attach minimal value to the Pistons assets, but when you offer up that for Markkanen, even Ainge is going to be interested.

I am about properly building around Cade, and shuttling everyone else.

Edit* I'll also add that I am very well aware I'm going to be disappointed, but not by the value. Dont care. Gonna be disappointed because the front office is a trainwreck and either won't do anything, or will do the wrong thing.

We should keep Ausar

We still need a good young prospect and hes a jump shot away from big impact

Ausar is, without question, right next to Cade in terms of impact, and if he had even a 32% three pointer, all-nba is in his future.

With that said; .186%

Now, if you can point to a player, that has ever overcome that percentage, and became even respectable from deep, im willing to have some hope. I also want to add that Ausar is a .597% free throw shooter, so the hill is steep here.

I love Ausars defense, hustle, heart, and energy. Amazing. If you have shooting at the Center position, then you can keep Ausar.

One position can lack shooting, not two.

Not gonna be a easy hill

Hes so athletic while being a elite defender though. Just the thought of him becoming even a 32% shooter like you said is scary.

I just dont want to lose all 3 young guys and hes my keeper choice of the group.

[zeebneeb]

I also want to add a name to the list, Isaiah Joe.

He would be a great fit next to Cade.

[vege]

I also want to add a name to the list, Isaiah Joe.

He would be a great fit next to Cade.

I have been high on him for a while and I've mentioned him a few times here.

He is not a FA tho, and he is super cheap, and he is a big part of their sucess OKC won't let him go. He is super underrated.

[zeebneeb]

I also want to add a name to the list, Isaiah Joe.

He would be a great fit next to Cade.

I have been high on him for a while and I've mentioned him a few times here.

He is not a FA tho, and he is super cheap, and he is a big part of their sucess OKC won't let him go. He is super underrated.

Team option for him next year, and there is absolutely no way OKC can afford to pay all their players, and use all those picks.

They will have to start cutting corners somewhere.

[Cowology]

Actually, im the one whos been saying;

Trade everyone but Cade/Tek for the one player to out next to Cade.

Ausar+Ivey+Stewart+#1 pick for Markkanen. See if Ainge will bite. If not throw in Duren as well.

Ausar+Ivey+Duren+Stewart+#1 pick for Markkanen.

Both trades work. I attach minimal value to the Pistons assets, but when you offer up that for Markkanen, even Ainge is going to be interested.

I am about properly building around Cade, and shuttling everyone else.

Edit* I'll also add that I am very well aware I'm going to be disappointed, but not by the value. Dont care. Gonna be disappointed because the front office is a trainwreck and either won't do anything, or will do the wrong thing.

We should keep Ausar

We still need a good young prospect and hes a jump shot away from big impact

Ausar is, without question, right next to Cade in terms of impact, and if he had even a 32% three pointer, all-nba is in his future.

With that said; .186%

Now, if you can point to a player, that has ever overcome that percentage, and became even respectable from deep, im willing to have some hope. I also want to add that Ausar is a .597% free throw shooter, so the hill is steep here.

I love Ausars defense, hustle, heart, and energy. Amazing. If you have shooting at the Center position, then you can keep Ausar.

One position can lack shooting, not two.

We are sort of in untested waters when it comes to 3pt shooting. Every other day there is a new, never before statline because of the explosion from beyond the arc.

Guys like Bruce Bowen & JKidd were considered non-shooters who became prolific later in their careers, but both guys shot a better than .186, even if it was on less than 1 attempt per game.

It'll be interesting to see what impact player development has over the next 5-10 years. Our entire approach should be shifting under the new meta.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

Team option for him next year, and there is absolutely no way OKC can afford to pay all their players, and use all those picks.

They will have to start cutting corners somewhere.

OKC is 26th in salary next year. An organization led by Sam Presti will be fine.

[LaSheed]

I'm all for trading our top 5 pick but what I'm having a hard time is identifying what level of player we get in return.

In your opinion who are some guys that our pick plus say Ivey, Stewart could fetch in return.

[Snakebites]

Team option for him next year, and there is absolutely no way OKC can afford to pay all their players, and use all those picks.

They will have to start cutting corners somewhere.

OKC is 26th in salary next year. An organization led by Sam Presti will be fine.

You know team is in a good spot when the worst you can say is “they’ve hit on too many picks, how will they keep everyone?”

Even if they end up losing someone they’ll replace them with the picks they still own.

[vege]

I also want to add a name to the list, Isaiah Joe.

He would be a great fit next to Cade.

I have been high on him for a while and I've mentioned him a few times here.

He is not a FA tho, and he is super cheap, and he is a big part of their sucess OKC won't let him go. He is super underrated.

Team option for him next year, and there is absolutely no way OKC can afford to pay all their players, and use all those picks.

They will have to start cutting corners somewhere.

Yes I mentioned that before. But he will be cheap next year. He won't go anywhere.

I posted in the past Stew for Kemrich Williams and Isaiah Joe. Neutral fans thought this was a meh return for Stewart at the time, I doubt we could get Isiah Joe for Stewart nowadays.

[Crymson]

Top 5 draft pick and $70M+ in cap space. I think your statement is just not accurate.

$70m in cap space in an era in which cap space is at its least useful. Could the Pistons turn that space into some draft assets? Probably, but the opportunities to do so for significant gain are not common. Free agents? There aren't many of significance, and the Pistons will be competing for them with teams that are much better positioned to succeed.

Top-five draft pick in what's looking like the weakest draft class since 2013.

I'm not expecting meaningful improvement unless it primarily comes from what's within the organization already.

I and many others have posted this consistently - this isn't a "bad free agent" year. Free agency has permanently changed. If you're talking about a bad free agent class you're not paying attention. What, you think no one is going to change teams this summer just because players are under contract? Please. There are some legit UFAs, but there will be a lot of trades.

This is a bad free agent class. The fact that free agency is drastically less an avenue for meaningful team improvement than it was a decade ago doesn't mean that relativity has gone away.

Trades for useful rotation players generally require something of value to go in the other direction. What do the Pistons have of value that it would make sense to trade given where this team finds itself?

First of all, I posted that I'm very leery about taking on KATs contract. But how far have the Timberwolves ever been in the playoffs this last decade? If they get bumped again in the first round, are they really just going to run it back?

Run it back? Maybe, maybe not. Deliberately get significantly worse? I doubt it. Why would they?

And thank you for the informed opinion on the 2nd apron, which hasn't even taken effect yet. My opinion (apparently uniformed) is that 2nd apron is ok if you're winning championships. The Warriors paying huge luxury tax is a very recent example of that. But if you're getting bounced in the first round? It is not worth it and restricts the moves you can make.

Also, it may take a year for the punishment of the 2nd apron to be truly felt. So at this point we both just have opinions. [/b]

Teams spend a lot of money out of a desire to compete for championships.

Pelicans might not even make it through the play in (shame about Zion). I don't recall the Pelicans ever being big spenders. So keep Ingram and don't extend some of their great young players? Or are you predicting the Pelicans are just going to start spending into the luxury tax to maybe make it to the second round?

Trey Murphy is the only young Pelican of current significance who isn't on a long-term contract already. Murphy is certainly a strong three-and-D wing, but he's worthy of nowhere near a max salary at this point and won't be a free agent until 2025 anyway.

Even if the Pelicans' ownership isn't keen on spending into the tax, they can easily avoid it in the upcoming season without dumping one of the best players on the roster and getting worse in the short term for no reason.

This is all entirely aside from any considerations for the Pistons, namely the fact that they'd need to provide honest-to-goodness value in return to a team that wants to win now (which may not be realistically possible) and the questionable wisdom of doing so in exchange for a player who has only one season left on his contract, could easily leave 2025, just had his second-most-healthy season in the NBA with a whopping 64 games, hasn't had a genuinely healthy NBA season since he was a 19-year-old rookie, doesn't provide what the Pistons need on offense, and plays bad defense. I get that there are unlikely to be ideal options available, but there's not entirely ideal and then there's really not ideal.

Any suggestions of what to do, besides the overused and boring "Fire everyone. Trade everyone. Start from scratch."?

For what it's worth -- I'm noting this because you seem defensive -- you haven't really laid out what you think is viable. It's solely "We've got cap space and a top-five pick, and I want good players." Well, we all want good players. Unfortunately for the Pistons, so do all 29 other teams. They're all out for themselves, and they're unlikely to do anyone else any favors.

I'd imagine it's going to come down to acquiring the best available, which may not be much. I'd caution anyone to temper expectations and to hope that Gores doesn't make immediate improvement a directive to the new PoBO.

[bstein14]

One interesting trade would be with Miami... Miami is actually a top FA destination and they eventually will want to hit a reset and land some FAs to come play with their team. They can pretty easily get FAs we can't. Could they hit the reset button early (this summer) to try and land a big fish or two to pair with Jimmy and Bam???

Detroit trades: Jaden Ivey($8)

Detroit receives: Duncan Robinson($19), Tyler Herro($29), and Terry Rozier($25), future pick(s)

Pistons use up all $60 million of their cap space in this trade but they'd still have the room exception to add one lower $$ FA.

C: Duren / Top 3 pick / Vet Min?
F: Stew / Ausar
F: Font / Robinson
G: Herro / Grimes
G:Cade / Terry / Sasser


Not the best use of $60 million, but it lessens the length compared to deals we'd give out today and we actually get 3 decent rotation players all of whom can shoot the ball and score the ball.

[theBigLip]

One interesting trade would be with Miami... Miami is actually a top FA destination and they eventually will want to hit a reset and land some FAs to come play with their team. They can pretty easily get FAs we can't. Could they hit the reset button early (this summer) to try and land a big fish or two to pair with Jimmy and Bam???

Detroit trades: Jaden Ivey($8)

Detroit receives: Duncan Robinson($19), Tyler Herro($29), and Terry Rozier($25), future pick(s)

Pistons use up all $60 million of their cap space in this trade but they'd still have the room exception to add one lower $$ FA.

C: Duren / Top 3 pick / Vet Min?
F: Stew / Ausar
F: Font / Robinson
G: Herro / Grimes
G:Cade / Terry / Sasser


Not the best use of $60 million, but it lessens the length compared to deals we'd give out today and we actually get 3 decent rotation players all of whom can shoot the ball and score the ball.

Would Jovic make more sense than Rozier? Better position fit and cheaper.