Dan Haren Vs. Ming Wang

[34Celtic]

I don

[Basketball Jesus]

Stats aren

[oakfanintheeast]

this sure is turning into one of the more lopsided comparisons on this board.

[cmaff051]

this sure is turning into one of the more lopsided comparisons on this board.

It'll start being a better comparision when Haren comes back to Earth.

[oakfanintheeast]

instead of wang, i should have made this thread haren vs. peavy.

[treyZz]

instead of wang, i should have made this thread haren vs. peavy.

[oakfanintheeast]

-= original quote snipped =-

yeh? look at the stats.. then look at the leagues.

[FNQ]

I've never seen Haren pitch like this... he's learning to pitch around the plate a lot more, and seems to thrive on pressure, now that he's our #1 and by far best pitching option...

He's really killing it now, outside of Jake Peavy, I dont see anyone pitching better..

[bigboy1234]

The difference being Peavy is actually dominanting, while Haren has been quite lucky.

Haren is sporting a .215 BABIP and 4.14 xFIP.

[FNQ]

The difference being Peavy is actually dominanting, while Haren has been quite lucky.

Haren is sporting a .215 BABIP and 4.14 xFIP.

Supplemental stats... his pitching has had such extraordinary control lately, no one is making good contact... you can conjecture that its luck, but unless you watch the games, its only a guess... I thought it was luck at first too, but his location is pinpoint right now.

[FNQ]

Just noticed the x in front of FIP... are they adjusting that stat again? Jeezus...

[bigboy1234]

Just noticed the x in front of FIP... are they adjusting that stat again? Jeezus...

The x rationalizes the home run ball.

Also as a pitcher you can't keep up a .215 BABIP throughout an entire season. And if everyone was making bad contact Haren's GB% would be a good amount higher than his current 41.7%.

[FNQ]

-= original quote snipped =-


The x rationalizes the home run ball.

Also as a pitcher you can't keep up a .215 BABIP throughout an entire season. And if everyone was making bad contact Haren's GB% would be a good amount higher than his current 41.7%.

Hes still a flyball pitcher... its really just lots of popups and jamming batters, as he did today. Not a great team to do it against (injury-depleted Texas) but a great example of how Haren has pitched all year. Inside - outside and his splitter has been great jamming righthanders...

But Ill check out what the xFIP is... is it proven, experimental? I can't seem to find it...does it use a league average # to balance out the initial FIP?

[oakfanintheeast]

The difference being Peavy is actually dominanting, while Haren has been quite lucky.

Haren is sporting a .215 BABIP and 4.14 xFIP.

are you reallly that hasty towards haren? how much more hasty are you going to be when barton puts up .300/ season? please, saying haren has been lucky, through 12 starts is unreal. have you watched him pitch? he sure got l ucky against the angels x 2, TBx 2, ny.. they dont hit. factor in the al has a DH , not a pitcher and its even more amazing what haren is doing.

Since opening the season 0-2 despite a 0.69 ERA, Haren is 6-0 in 10 starts, unbeaten in games in which he gets at least two runs, and he's worked at least seven innings eight times.... thats lucky. 15 earned runs in 82 innings? thats pretty lucky too. watch a game instead of throwing in some bull stat that supports you.


considering you love looking up stats....why dont u go look up peavy's stats in the playoffs too.

[bigboy1234]

What does Barton have to do with anything? (not that he's done anything the past 2 years anyways) Do you think I'm "hating" on Haren because the Cardinals got robbed in a deal with him? If so, you are not so smart.

ERA is not the greatest stat in the world, sorry to burst your bubble. I like how you say I'm hasty towards Haren for some reason, but I backed it up by putting what his BABIP and xFIP are, that show he's been lucky.

What does Peavy's playoff stats have anything to do with anything?

The 2 stats to prove your point are W-L record and ERA, yeah those are greatest things in the world for judging a player.

Reggae here are the stats, since you actually care about learning more about baseball:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/m ... son_filter[0]=2007&league_filter[0]=All&Submit=Submit&orderBy=xFip&direction=ASC&page=1
You can also go to the Stats Glossary at the top of the page and it will tell you more about the stats.

[oakfanintheeast]

What does Barton have to do with anything? (not that he's done anything the past 2 years anyways) Do you think I'm "hating" on Haren because the Cardinals got robbed in a deal with him? If so, you are not so smart.

ERA is not the greatest stat in the world, sorry to burst your bubble. I like how you say I'm hasty towards Haren for some reason, but I backed it up by putting what his BABIP and xFIP are, that show he's been lucky.

What does Peavy's playoff stats have anything to do with anything?

The 2 stats to prove your point are W-L record and ERA, yeah those are greatest things in the world for judging a player.

Reggae here are the stats, since you actually care about learning more about baseball:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/m ... son_filter[0]=2007&league_filter[0]=All&Submit=Submit&orderBy=xFip&direction=ASC&page=1
You can also go to the Stats Glossary at the top of the page and it will tell you more about the stats.

again, you dont dominate the AL for 2 months by being lucky. i worked for a professional statistic company,and had offers to play ball.. so you're little pot shot about learning baseball was more than cute.

and you're right, you cant judge a guy by wins and loses, but playoffs are a different story to a degree. peavy has been great, but less than stellar in the playoffs.

haren isn't going to be a sub 2 pitcher all year. but calling him lucky is a low blow. if that stat was so important, you would think haren would have slipped up somone in a 2 month period.

[FNQ]

I think I get what xFIP is... for a pitcher like Haren who allows a lot of HRs, thats going to be much higher than his FIP, where he's 7th...

Since it is experimental and I'm not seeing much historic evidence behind it, I'll stick with FIP for now, since Haren's so apt to the HR ball but the way he's been pitching otherwise has been phenomenal...

[FNQ]

Looking at Haren's stat line... his xFIP and +ERA is among the highest of the elite pitchers...

But his LD% is the lowest among qualifying pitchers, and his GB% is around 40%... meaning that about half the balls put in play are flyballs. And because of his 5.2% HR/F ... thats the reason why he's done so much better than last year, when his HR/F % was up nearly 10 points.

His LD% is also a lot lower, which supports my argument of him being a much better location pitcher than before... history suggests his ERA will rise, and it likely will... but I'd imagine it will be in the high 2s or early 3's by season's end, not near the 4s... not even the 3.5s.

[oakfanintheeast]

HAREN SUCKS!!!

[FNQ]

Another good outing, but somewhat worrying...

7 IP, 4 H, 1 BB... 2 ER, 2 HR.

He was spot on with great location yet again, except for 2 belt high mistakes... thank the pen for blowing another win Haren should have had.