Game 72: Warriors @ Magic 4:00 PM PDT

[Coxy]

Called the ref a "female dog butt ninja" as he walked away and that warrants a 2nd tech?

Yes.

No one should have to put up with that kind of verbal abuse in the workplace, not even an NBA ref.

If that’s what he actually said, that’s so funny.

[vvoland]

If a player beats their wife on the court I’m sure the referees would eject them for that without waiting for them to do it twice.


This is a stupid comparison. We are done here.

I'm not comparing their actions, I'm saying Draymond has been vilified, told he needs therapy and has been dragged through the mud for .. what, exactly? Choking gobert? Slapping Nurkic? Kicking Adams in the nuts 8 years ago? I listed plenty of examples of on-court problems and the off-court stuff is to put the conversation around draymond in the proper context. It's the height of hypocrisy for charles barkley to say a goddamn thing about Dray consider a. how chuck behaved on the court and b. his off-court problems. Compared to chuck, Dray is a f---ing saint.

You're the one that brought up 'blank slates' and 'behavior in the past'. When was the last time someone was suspended indefinitely pending they get therapy? That dray was the first is nonsense considering KPJ and Miles Bridges were active NBA players at that time. Dillon Brooks has caused multiple injuries with his play, on the court. Does he need therapy before being allowed to play?

[vvoland]

Called the ref a "female dog butt ninja" as he walked away and that warrants a 2nd tech?

Yes.

No one should have to put up with that kind of verbal abuse in the workplace, not even an NBA ref.

If that’s what he actually said, that’s so funny.

I'm not an expert on lip reading but I'm pretty confident that's exactly what he said as he was walking away and that's what led to the 2nd tech.

[Sleepy51]

^see whataboutism above

I’m serious kid. We are done. I’m not interested in discussing your take on this. We don’t agree you’ll have to live with that

[vvoland]

^see whataboutism above

I’m serious kid. We are done. I’m not interested in discussing your take on this. We don’t agree you’ll have to live with that

Sure gramps, enjoy your myopic take and the leeway you give to actual felons.

[wco81]

Ok so you're assuming we get a neutral or negative player in return. Possible, but more likely we can get someone who is a defensive plus to some degree. You are also discounting the fact that the team will adjust when he is gone. Roles with change, systems will change, other trades will be made (side-eyeing CP3.) Regardless, if Draymond is off the court due to ejection or suspension when this season comes to an end, if Curry says trade him, he's gone. And I will be just fine with the result.

So name some of those players who'd offer defensive positional flexibility.

That's not even counting his playmaking on offense.

I am not supposing that we get another Draymond Green to replace him. We will get a different player who contributed in different ways and we will have to play new systems that don't depend on one guy doing everything he has done. That does not mean a 1:1 reduction in defensive performance. Getting rid of Draymond means doing things different after he is gone. I'm ready for that.

Sure but other teams will low-ball the Warriors, seeing it as a distress sale. He's still all-defense level player but he's old and carries a lot of baggage.

Warriors should get a starter-level player just matching salaries at least but they could also only be offered several role players whose contracts add up to Draymond's contract and none of them are probably viable 30 MPG player.

[vvoland]

So name some of those players who'd offer defensive positional flexibility.

That's not even counting his playmaking on offense.

I am not supposing that we get another Draymond Green to replace him. We will get a different player who contributed in different ways and we will have to play new systems that don't depend on one guy doing everything he has done. That does not mean a 1:1 reduction in defensive performance. Getting rid of Draymond means doing things different after he is gone. I'm ready for that.

Sure but other teams will low-ball the Warriors, seeing it as a distress sale. He's still all-defense level player but he's old and carries a lot of baggage.

Warriors should get a starter-level player just matching salaries at least but they could also only be offered several role players whose contracts add up to Draymond's contract and none of them are probably viable 30 MPG player.

While many people want Kerr fired, Klay replaced or dray traded, few of them are willing to say who the replacements would be.

Considering dray's contract, offensive limitations away from great shooters, likelihood of long suspension and age, we're getting little value back. There are teams with cap space like SAS, Detroit, Orlando. Pretty sure we can rule out spurs and magic but what would det offer, if they're interested? Fournier and Troy Brown? Don't think they'll give up Stewart or Ivey. I'll pass.

Rumors were that the Lakers and Mavs were interested at the deadline. Ok, let's play that out. Lakers can realistically give us rui and Vincent or Vanderbilt. Dlo has a PO so he'd have to opt in and want to come to GS. I'd pass on rui and vando. Mavs can only offer kleber with one of gafford, PJ or hardaway. Anyone really think those names help us in any meaningful way?

We probably could trade for another distressed asset. maybe lavine or simmons, but that's only if we could combine contracts and I'm not sure we can. Some dubs fans wanted to trade dray and wigs for Simmons in the summer of '21 but I'm hopeful even they changed their minds by now.

If people want dray off the team because they no longer want to root for him, I get that. Be honest about it. But to pretend that they'll just replace him the second best player this franchise has seen since Rick Barry, is delusional.

[billinder33]

^see whataboutism above

I’m serious kid. We are done. I’m not interested in discussing your take on this. We don’t agree you’ll have to live with that

Sure gramps, enjoy your myopic take and the leeway you give to actual felons.

Refs can only govern what happens on the basketball court. Felonies are the preview of country, state, and federal courts

Dray has received more leniency over the years for his on court actions than any player in NBA history. The league office has finally had enough. Adam Silver and the league's marketing and legal staffs aren't going to put up with the optics and the liability risk any longer. That's really all there is too it. Dude needs to learn to control his mouth and his flailing limbs or he'll be out of a job. Simple as.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Dray absolutely deserved that ejection. Why is this even a dispute.

He challenged the officiating early to set the tone. The magic were just bullying and getting soft calls early. After that 1st tech (which I had no problems with him getting), the message was sent. He needed to leave it alone after that.. Instead he just doubled down and couldn't control himself.

[Crazy-Canuck]

I have 5.5 seasons of evidence that say this is the exact opposite of reality

2nd/3rd option Wiggins can be a force on both sides. He's not ideal, but it's probably the best we have.

I made this point in after the Miami game even though I thought it was so obvious. Wiggins, when he plays with real force, is a complete game-changer for this squad. He can cover up so many mistakes/bad games that it is almost criminal how little effort he put into this season. Last night's game was his best of the season and it wasn't exactly a 30pt triple double or the highlight tape of a DPOY. He was playing the way mikal bridges plays every game. Last night, that meant that JK's absence, Dray's early ejection and the poor shooting/defense/shot selection from Steph DID NOT MATTER. We went into Orl and took the best defense in the league since the all-star break to the woodshed. IF this wiggins shows up for the last ten games, I like our chances of getting the 8 seed. Big if, of course, but the last two games indicate he may be waking up.

3 of last 4 games, his touches hovered near 60 as opposed to the 30 he usually gets. He also got plays run for him early in the possession. Podz and cp3 minutes got limited minutes, so wiggins brought the ball up more. Those are the exceptions, not the norm. Once the team is full again, I expect kerr to have him standing at the 3 pt line (which wiggins will embrace), so steph, klay, and jk can get theirs. That's been our normal offense this year.

[vvoland]

^see whataboutism above

I’m serious kid. We are done. I’m not interested in discussing your take on this. We don’t agree you’ll have to live with that

Sure gramps, enjoy your myopic take and the leeway you give to actual felons.

Refs can only govern what happens on the basketball court. Felonies are the preview of country, state, and federal courts

Dray has received more leniency over the years for his on court actions than any player in NBA history. The league office has finally had enough. Adam Silver and the league's marketing and legal staffs aren't going to put up with the optics and the liability risk any longer. That's really all there is too it. Dude needs to learn to control his mouth and his flailing limbs or he'll be out of a job. Simple as.

My question to sleepy was about the conversation around dray. Hence the felonies. I think it's hypocritical for the league and the media cast dray as some dangerous psychopath that needs therapy. Especially when the league has no problem paying millions of dollars to actual felons.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think dray is a nice guy. Doesn't seem like a guy I want around me or those I love. But that isn't the bar and in a league full of peope that cross the line, dray barely makes the assssshole all stars.

This is his first ejection since he's been back. Anyone thinking he'd never get ejected was kidding themselves. Getting a second tech for calling the ref a b!tch a$$ seems soft to me considering everything else I've heard players say to the refs, dray included.

[vvoland]

2nd/3rd option Wiggins can be a force on both sides. He's not ideal, but it's probably the best we have.

I made this point in after the Miami game even though I thought it was so obvious. Wiggins, when he plays with real force, is a complete game-changer for this squad. He can cover up so many mistakes/bad games that it is almost criminal how little effort he put into this season. Last night's game was his best of the season and it wasn't exactly a 30pt triple double or the highlight tape of a DPOY. He was playing the way mikal bridges plays every game. Last night, that meant that JK's absence, Dray's early ejection and the poor shooting/defense/shot selection from Steph DID NOT MATTER. We went into Orl and took the best defense in the league since the all-star break to the woodshed. IF this wiggins shows up for the last ten games, I like our chances of getting the 8 seed. Big if, of course, but the last two games indicate he may be waking up.

3 of last 4 games, his touches hovered near 60 as opposed to the 30 he usually gets. He also got plays run for him early in the possession. Podz and cp3 minutes got limited minutes, so wiggins brought the ball up more. Those are the exceptions, not the norm. Once the team is full again, I expect kerr to have him standing at the 3 pt line (which wiggins will embrace), so steph, klay, and jk can get theirs. That's been our normal offense this year.

He's also much more engaged on defense and the glass. His touches are up, as are his minutes and, with jk out and cp3 not able to handle backcourt pressure, wigs brought the ball up. Putting wigs's passivity on Kerr seems a bit much considering it's been a knock on him going back to Kansas.

[Crazy-Canuck]

I made this point in after the Miami game even though I thought it was so obvious. Wiggins, when he plays with real force, is a complete game-changer for this squad. He can cover up so many mistakes/bad games that it is almost criminal how little effort he put into this season. Last night's game was his best of the season and it wasn't exactly a 30pt triple double or the highlight tape of a DPOY. He was playing the way mikal bridges plays every game. Last night, that meant that JK's absence, Dray's early ejection and the poor shooting/defense/shot selection from Steph DID NOT MATTER. We went into Orl and took the best defense in the league since the all-star break to the woodshed. IF this wiggins shows up for the last ten games, I like our chances of getting the 8 seed. Big if, of course, but the last two games indicate he may be waking up.

3 of last 4 games, his touches hovered near 60 as opposed to the 30 he usually gets. He also got plays run for him early in the possession. Podz and cp3 minutes got limited minutes, so wiggins brought the ball up more. Those are the exceptions, not the norm. Once the team is full again, I expect kerr to have him standing at the 3 pt line (which wiggins will embrace), so steph, klay, and jk can get theirs. That's been our normal offense this year.

He's also much more engaged on defense and the glass. His touches are up, as are his minutes and, with jk out and cp3 not able to handle backcourt pressure, wigs brought the ball up. Putting wigs's passivity on Kerr seems a bit much considering it's been a knock on him going back to Kansas.

Yes, the passivity is on Wiggins. Not everyone is wired like kobe. So, you either help him not be passive or let him continue to stay passive. My point is that wiggins not playing up to the standards people want, is not entirely on him. Even azuibuke mentioned it during game. You can want players to be engaged, but the team also needs to put players in positions to be engaged. We know what wiggins is at this point. He simply isn't going to be that guy that will hunt for his shots. He's going to play within the offense and defer to steph, klay, and jk because that's our offense.

[billinder33]

Sure gramps, enjoy your myopic take and the leeway you give to actual felons.

Refs can only govern what happens on the basketball court. Felonies are the preview of country, state, and federal courts

Dray has received more leniency over the years for his on court actions than any player in NBA history. The league office has finally had enough. Adam Silver and the league's marketing and legal staffs aren't going to put up with the optics and the liability risk any longer. That's really all there is too it. Dude needs to learn to control his mouth and his flailing limbs or he'll be out of a job. Simple as.

My question to sleepy was about the conversation around dray. Hence the felonies. I think it's hypocritical for the league and the media cast dray as some dangerous psychopath that needs therapy. Especially when the league has no problem paying millions of dollars to actual felons.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think dray is a nice guy. Doesn't seem like a guy I want around me or those I love. But that isn't the bar and in a league full of peope that cross the line, dray barely makes the assssshole all stars.

This is his first ejection since he's been back. Anyone thinking he'd never get ejected was kidding themselves. Getting a second tech for calling the ref a b!tch a$$ seems soft to me considering everything else I've heard players say to the refs, dray included.

Surely you can link where the league called Dray a "dangerous psychopath"?

The NFL has tried to legislate morality for infractions off the field for over 5 years now, and it's been a disaster. Off-field issues are for the legal system.

The NBA mandated yet another round of therapy for Dray because of a cumulation of on-court violations. Not one, not two, not three... Literally multiple behaviors per year, including a workplace assault on a teammate. It's not 1975 anymore - you can't headshot players in any sports league, fighting is being legislated out of hockey, women are locker room reporters, refs, broadcasters... and no ref in 2024 should have to put up with personal slurs.

Cursing about foul call (ex: "that's a BS f*ing foul") is one thing, but if any player calls a ref a "b!tch a$$", they deserve a tech. I really don't care what other players have gotten away with in the past. I support any ref not putting up with that, and fully endorse language of that nature getting a tech, every player every time. If it's the 2nd tech if the game i.e ejection, so be it. Refs are human beings and shouldn't have to endure profane verbal abuse as part of the job. If that trend started just yesterday with Dray getting bounced, then I'm all for it.

[Romulus]

I think last night might well be the tipping point for Draymond. Certainly nothing will happen now but in the off-season the Warriors FO might finally realize that whatever Draymond gives the team, what he takes away from the team is just not worth it anymore.

Kerr made it a point to say it was unacceptable for Draymond to get ejected and to do it so early in the game where he just wouldn't shut up. After seeing Steph react in a way he never has, perhaps the FO will finally say enough is enough. Yes, it was actually rather modest in terms of Draymond bad behavior; the Poole punch was worse; the Gobert choke was worse; the Nurkic slap was worse.

But with the season on the line, against a tough opponent, and with the game just beginning, Draymond can't control himself, doesn't care enough to play through it?

The case can be made that Draymond cost them a title against Cleveland; that he ruined last season and this one as well with all his suspensions and games missed. Also, the Warriors proved they can play good defense without Draymond, they can win without Draymond.

Is it really worth it to keep him around and suck the emotional life from the team?

I say no.

[whatisacenter]

I think last night might well be the tipping point for Draymond. Certainly nothing will happen now but in the off-season the Warriors FO might finally realize that whatever Draymond gives the team, what he takes away from the team is just not worth it anymore.

Kerr made it a point to say it was unacceptable for Draymond to get suspended and to do it so early in the game where he just wouldn't shut up. After seeing Steph react in a way he never has, perhaps the FO will finally say enough is enough. Yes, it was actually rather modest in terms of Draymond bad behavior; the Poole punch was worse; the Gobert choke was worse; the Nurkic slap was worse.

But with the season on the line, against a tough opponent, and with the game just beginning, Draymond can't control himself, doesn't care enough to play through it?

The case can be made that Draymond cost them title against Cleveland; that he ruined last season and this one as well with all his suspensions and games missed. Also, the Warriors proved they can play good defense without Draymond, they can win without Draymond.

Is it really worth it to keep him around and suck the emotional life from the team?

I say no.

[michaelm]

Sure gramps, enjoy your myopic take and the leeway you give to actual felons.

Refs can only govern what happens on the basketball court. Felonies are the preview of country, state, and federal courts

Dray has received more leniency over the years for his on court actions than any player in NBA history. The league office has finally had enough. Adam Silver and the league's marketing and legal staffs aren't going to put up with the optics and the liability risk any longer. That's really all there is too it. Dude needs to learn to control his mouth and his flailing limbs or he'll be out of a job. Simple as.

My question to sleepy was about the conversation around dray. Hence the felonies. I think it's hypocritical for the league and the media cast dray as some dangerous psychopath that needs therapy. Especially when the league has no problem paying millions of dollars to actual felons.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think dray is a nice guy. Doesn't seem like a guy I want around me or those I love. But that isn't the bar and in a league full of peope that cross the line, dray barely makes the assssshole all stars.

This is his first ejection since he's been back. Anyone thinking he'd never get ejected was kidding themselves. Getting a second tech for calling the ref a b!tch a$$ seems soft to me considering everything else I've heard players say to the refs, dray included.

Bottom line is he is a guy in his mid 30s who is unable to control his temper, no matter what it costs his team, his friends or even himself. He has cost GSW plenty of games jawing with refs at the end of games, and is one of the reasons imo they were confined to the play-in rather than making the play-offs outright in 2021, although Oubre and Wiseman were larger contributors to same, and is now apparently happy to advance this behaviour to the start of games. I was OK with the first tech foul, but incurring the second foul even with Curry imploring him not to do so is harder to overlook.

I am not so sure about Cleveland in 2016, that suspension actually was completely bogus imo and perhaps formative of Green's attitude. His general worth as a player over the dynastic run is still unquestioned by me at least, and if he cost them the 2016 title they don't win some of the others without him as FNQ has been detailing, particularly the 2022 title, again imo.

But sure verbally insulting a ref shouldn't be career ending, and I still don't think he has ever actually tried to significantly injure anyone on an NBA court, and that he never has despite his reputation is strong evidence for this I would have thought. The Poole punch which was on a practice court rather erodes my faith that he has some limit in general however.

[wco81]

He is what he is. His brilliance as a player is the anger, the drive, the chip on his shoulder.

The other side of the coin is his recklessness, volatility, anger.

Coming off a championship it was irresponsible of him to punch Poole, who was a key contributor to the last title.

Poole was expected to be an asset for years, which is why the team paid him. He had a lot of flaws but he was so young that it was worth the risk. If nothing else he could be traded later.

But the punch broke Poole and sabotaged last season. Then Warriors had to make a distressed sale.

Poole had 38 points the other night. Empty stats but the team could use someone other than Curry capable of scoring explosions.

Team stuck with Green because there were few other options. Only route is another distressed sale.

[vvoland]

Refs can only govern what happens on the basketball court. Felonies are the preview of country, state, and federal courts

Dray has received more leniency over the years for his on court actions than any player in NBA history. The league office has finally had enough. Adam Silver and the league's marketing and legal staffs aren't going to put up with the optics and the liability risk any longer. That's really all there is too it. Dude needs to learn to control his mouth and his flailing limbs or he'll be out of a job. Simple as.

My question to sleepy was about the conversation around dray. Hence the felonies. I think it's hypocritical for the league and the media cast dray as some dangerous psychopath that needs therapy. Especially when the league has no problem paying millions of dollars to actual felons.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think dray is a nice guy. Doesn't seem like a guy I want around me or those I love. But that isn't the bar and in a league full of peope that cross the line, dray barely makes the assssshole all stars.

This is his first ejection since he's been back. Anyone thinking he'd never get ejected was kidding themselves. Getting a second tech for calling the ref a b!tch a$$ seems soft to me considering everything else I've heard players say to the refs, dray included.

Surely you can link where the league called Dray a "dangerous psychopath"?

The NFL has tried to legislate morality for infractions off the field for over 5 years now, and it's been a disaster. Off-field issues are for the legal system.

The NBA mandated yet another round of therapy for Dray because of a cumulation of on-court violations. Not one, not two, not three... Literally multiple behaviors per year, including a workplace assault on a teammate. It's not 1975 anymore - you can't headshot players in any sports league, fighting is being legislated out of hockey, women are locker room reporters, refs, broadcasters... and no ref in 2024 should have to put up with personal slurs.

Cursing about foul call (ex: "that's a BS f*ing foul") is one thing, but if any player calls a ref a "b!tch a$$", they deserve a tech. I really don't care what other players have gotten away with in the past. I support any ref not putting up with that, and fully endorse language of that nature getting a tech, every player every time. If it's the 2nd tech if the game i.e ejection, so be it. Refs are human beings and shouldn't have to endure profane verbal abuse as part of the job. If that trend started just yesterday with Dray getting bounced, then I'm all for it.

It seems like I'm doing a poor job of making myself clear. This isn't about what I think the standards should be or whether or not I agree with how games are refereed. I'm simply trying to say two things:

A. that based on how refs handle players in general, and dray specifically, that second tech seemed petty. Bol bol told the refs they were d!ск riding wemby the other night and all he got was a chuckle. I don't mind if the refs cracked down on players talking to them, I think it'd be great for the game. But, I'm willing to bet that's not what happened. A ref got butt hurt and tossed a guy 4 minutes into the game. Again, not saying dray didn't deserve it but players, dray included, have said much worse and the refs just kept it moving. What other players have gotten away with in the past is the context in which the conversation between dray and the ref last night took place. It's not irrelevant.

B. I'm not sure how dray became the NBA's dr. Evil. No, I can't link to the NBA calling dray a dangerous psychopath. I never said they called him that. But the discourse around him seemed off the rails. Players were talking "I hope he gets the help he needs." Coaches, including Kerr, were saying "I'm more worried about dray the man than I am the player" and the league's language and suspension reflected a situation that rose to ron arrest levels, which I didn't see. By the way, I'm all for therapy and self improvement. Having relied on the former and constantly struggling with the latter, I'll be the last person to discount those things. Tomorrow night, however, we'll be playing Miles Bridges. Haven't heard many players, coaches or media people worried about Miles "getting the help he needs." In fact, most everyone just ignores it or sidesteps it. We'll play Dillon Brooks next week; are you sure dray has been involved in more on court scuffles than Dillon? We're going to play a flat-earth, anti-vax, anti-semite twice in the next two weeks but players love Kyrie like he walks on water. How is dray the league's poster child for bad behavior when coaches and players have faced rape, assault, and domestic violence charges and convictions. I can think of a dozen players that need counseling, therapy or a goddamn lobotomy well before I get to dray.

[Romulus]

He is what he is. His brilliance as a player is the anger, the drive, the chip on his shoulder.

The other side of the coin is his recklessness, volatility, anger.

Coming off a championship it was irresponsible of him to punch Poole, who was a key contributor to the last title.

Poole was expected to be an asset for years, which is why the team paid him. He had a lot of flaws but he was so young that it was worth the risk. If nothing else he could be traded later.

But the punch broke Poole and sabotaged last season. Then Warriors had to make a distressed sale.

Poole had 38 points the other night. Empty stats but the team could use someone other than Curry capable of scoring explosions.

Team stuck with Green because there were few other options. Only route is another distressed sale.

I would offer Orlando Draymond for Isaac straight up. Would they bite?