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It’s over I’m calling it

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Re: It’s over I’m calling it 

Post#121 » by Romulus » Thu Dec 14, 2023 10:49 am

jozef wrote:
Romulus wrote:I do think this Suns game is probably the most important of the season. It signals the end of Draymond Green playing a key role. The Warriors can now move on and I actually think that will be good for them. It was also a good thing that Kerr decided to bench Klay and Wiggins in the 4th quarter. I know it's been reported that Klay had a melt-down on the bench, but this had to eventually be done. Honestly, the young guys -- Moody, Podz, & Kuminga -- have all outplayed Klay & Wiggins and deserve more minutes and to play with the game on the line. No, you don't close the door on Wiggins and Klay, you continue to give them minutes and hope they get better. But whoever plays is out there because they've earned it. At least, that's my sincere hope. Kerr can't go back now and if he does then this team will fall apart.

I'm also hoping this helps free up Curry, that he'll play more with these young guys, learn to trust them, and they'll all learn to do what's best when it comes to winning games.

You overevaluate the success of young guys against Phoenix backup lineup. Last night vs Nets Eubanks was -18 in 4 minutes. Simply there is a big difference between starters and backups in the league. Overall Moody, Podz and Kuminga are worth of backup minutes and complementary roles but they still miss skills of a primary offensive option. It is still not there and you can see it in many plays right in that Suns game. It would not free up Curry, it would frustrate him cause there is obvious lack of concept.
The league is simply full of tall athletic guys at C position and guards and wings who are hungry to play their hearts out on Splash Brothers defense. All teams see there is no Warriors center able to dunk on them, make shots inside or challenge any shots and they all feel confident that they would prevail over Warriors in a result. Eubanks easily blocked Saric twice, Goodwin and Gordon scored layups and one on him, that's simply horrible athletic disadvantage. Can you ever imagine Looney and Saric dunking on somebody or block a shot with an authority? No, you cannot, it would feel crazy. Still you want a successful NBA team...

There is still a hope that Warriors could win it all: they could beat small ball Sacramento, Murray and Michael Porter Jr could get injured, Lively could get injured, etc., small ball Miami could somehow get in the Finals... but overall GSW either finds a center or they die in a false hope that they can outshoot the opponents solely from perimeter.

And Draymond suspension will make it hard to even stay in playoffs race.


I appreciate your response. And yeah, I certainly get the value of backups versus starters. But Moody at this point is better than Klay. What does Klay give you? Moody is a better defensive player. Moody is a more consistent shooter. And also, Moody doesn't force shots and when he's in there's just a better flow to the offense. Freeing Curry up means he doesn't have to placate pouty, struggling players like Klay and Wiggins. Now, yes, Moody, Podz, Kuminga -- even if they play well -- aren't going to take you to the promised land. This team isn't winning a title. And there likely is going to be blowback from Klay and perhaps even Wiggins if they're coming off the bench.

It's a complicated mess. But what I think will happen is a team that while limited, flawed, will at least be watchable. This year has been miserable, frustrating. Instead of worrying about wins, often Kerr has spent his time trying not to upset egos.

I'm hoping this all leads to a few simple improvements: Curry can be Curry again, the young guys will get real minutes, sometimes start, and make great improvement. That's a step up from where things stand now. And at least it should be a product the fans can follow and feel like some progress is being made.
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Re: It’s over I’m calling it 

Post#122 » by Romulus » Thu Dec 14, 2023 10:59 am

Romulus wrote:
jozef wrote:
Romulus wrote:I do think this Suns game is probably the most important of the season. It signals the end of Draymond Green playing a key role. The Warriors can now move on and I actually think that will be good for them. It was also a good thing that Kerr decided to bench Klay and Wiggins in the 4th quarter. I know it's been reported that Klay had a melt-down on the bench, but this had to eventually be done. Honestly, the young guys -- Moody, Podz, & Kuminga -- have all outplayed Klay & Wiggins and deserve more minutes and to play with the game on the line. No, you don't close the door on Wiggins and Klay, you continue to give them minutes and hope they get better. But whoever plays is out there because they've earned it. At least, that's my sincere hope. Kerr can't go back now and if he does then this team will fall apart.

I'm also hoping this helps free up Curry, that he'll play more with these young guys, learn to trust them, and they'll all learn to do what's best when it comes to winning games.

You overevaluate the success of young guys against Phoenix backup lineup. Last night vs Nets Eubanks was -18 in 4 minutes. Simply there is a big difference between starters and backups in the league. Overall Moody, Podz and Kuminga are worth of backup minutes and complementary roles but they still miss skills of a primary offensive option. It is still not there and you can see it in many plays right in that Suns game. It would not free up Curry, it would frustrate him cause there is obvious lack of concept.
The league is simply full of tall athletic guys at C position and guards and wings who are hungry to play their hearts out on Splash Brothers defense. All teams see there is no Warriors center able to dunk on them, make shots inside or challenge any shots and they all feel confident that they would prevail over Warriors in a result. Eubanks easily blocked Saric twice, Goodwin and Gordon scored layups and one on him, that's simply horrible athletic disadvantage. Can you ever imagine Looney and Saric dunking on somebody or block a shot with an authority? No, you cannot, it would feel crazy. Still you want a successful NBA team...

There is still a hope that Warriors could win it all: they could beat small ball Sacramento, Murray and Michael Porter Jr could get injured, Lively could get injured, etc., small ball Miami could somehow get in the Finals... but overall GSW either finds a center or they die in a false hope that they can outshoot the opponents solely from perimeter.

And Draymond suspension will make it hard to even stay in playoffs race.


I appreciate your response. And yeah, I certainly get the value of backups versus starters. But Moody at this point is better than Klay. What does Klay give you? Moody is a better defensive player. Moody is a more consistent shooter. And also, Moody doesn't force shots and when he's in there's just a better flow to the offense. No, he's not a creator, but unlike Klay, he doesn't try to be.
Freeing Curry up means he doesn't have to placate pouty, struggling players like Klay and Wiggins. Now, yes, Moody, Podz, Kuminga -- even if they play well -- aren't going to take you to the promised land. This team isn't winning a title. And there likely is going to be blowback from Klay and perhaps even Wiggins if they're coming off the bench.

It's a complicated mess. But what I think will happen is a team that while limited, flawed, will at least be watchable. This year has been miserable, frustrating. Instead of worrying about wins, often Kerr has spent his time trying not to upset egos.

I'm hoping this all leads to a few simple improvements: Curry can be Curry again, the young guys will get real minutes, sometimes start, and make great improvement. That's a step up from where things stand now. And at least it should be a product the fans can follow and feel like some progress is being made. I do think also, (and agree with you) that Warriors should be looking to make any and all trades with interested parties. Having a center with skill, muscle, and ability finish around the rim is something we can only dream about at the moment. I hope the FO is willing to make trades and improve the roster because it will at times be very frustrating.

Watching the old games, Curry had a real connection with McGee and those beautiful lobs and dunks are sorely missed. Change is upon us. This is just the first but necessary step. Hopefully, more change, with different pieces, is soon to follow.
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Re: It’s over I’m calling it 

Post#123 » by Romulus » Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:05 am

Romulus wrote:
Romulus wrote:
jozef wrote:You overevaluate the success of young guys against Phoenix backup lineup. Last night vs Nets Eubanks was -18 in 4 minutes. Simply there is a big difference between starters and backups in the league. Overall Moody, Podz and Kuminga are worth of backup minutes and complementary roles but they still miss skills of a primary offensive option. It is still not there and you can see it in many plays right in that Suns game. It would not free up Curry, it would frustrate him cause there is obvious lack of concept.
The league is simply full of tall athletic guys at C position and guards and wings who are hungry to play their hearts out on Splash Brothers defense. All teams see there is no Warriors center able to dunk on them, make shots inside or challenge any shots and they all feel confident that they would prevail over Warriors in a result. Eubanks easily blocked Saric twice, Goodwin and Gordon scored layups and one on him, that's simply horrible athletic disadvantage. Can you ever imagine Looney and Saric dunking on somebody or block a shot with an authority? No, you cannot, it would feel crazy. Still you want a successful NBA team...

There is still a hope that Warriors could win it all: they could beat small ball Sacramento, Murray and Michael Porter Jr could get injured, Lively could get injured, etc., small ball Miami could somehow get in the Finals... but overall GSW either finds a center or they die in a false hope that they can outshoot the opponents solely from perimeter.

And Draymond suspension will make it hard to even stay in playoffs race.


I appreciate your response. And yeah, I certainly get the value of backups versus starters. But Moody at this point is better than Klay. What does Klay give you? Moody is a better defensive player. Moody is a more consistent shooter. And also, Moody doesn't force shots and when he's in there's just a better flow to the offense. No, he's not a creator, but unlike Klay, he doesn't try to be.

Freeing Curry up means he doesn't have to placate pouty, struggling players like Klay and Wiggins. Now, yes, Moody, Podz, Kuminga -- even if they play well -- aren't going to take you to the promised land. This team isn't winning a title. And there likely is going to be blowback from Klay and perhaps even Wiggins if they're coming off the bench.

It's a complicated mess. But what I think will happen is a team that while limited, flawed, will at least be watchable. This year has been miserable, frustrating. Instead of worrying about wins, often Kerr has spent his time trying not to upset egos -- and that's probably the main reason they've lost so many close games, playing the wrong players at the wrong times.

I'm hoping this all leads to a few simple improvements: Curry can be Curry again, the young guys will get real minutes, sometimes start, and make great improvement. That's a step up from where things stand now. And at least it should be a product the fans can follow and feel like some progress is being made. I do think also, (and agree with you) that Warriors should be looking to make any and all trades with interested parties. Having a center with skill, muscle, and ability finish around the rim is something we can only dream about at the moment. I hope the FO is willing to make trades and improve the roster because it will at times be very frustrating.

Watching the old games, Curry had a real connection with McGee and those beautiful lobs and dunks are sorely missed. Change is upon us. This is just the first but necessary step. Hopefully, more change, with different pieces, is soon to follow.
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Re: It’s over I’m calling it 

Post#124 » by jozef » Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:48 am

Curry is at his top, he is stil as amazing as ever. Klay still gets his legs set well for shots on classic plays and Moody cannot do it yet. The mess is not complicated. It is pretty simple. Our centers are athletic tragedy. They both are smart guys, try their best but simply they are limited or did not put enough work in the offseason to be ready for NBA starting job.
It does open everything. Once Klay, Andrew or Steph could defer to open or semi-open center in the paint and he would finish it with an authority... it would be over. They would get unbeatable. It would be two-way offense at history-best.

Now we get very favorable schedule playing Portland twice, Brooklyn and Washington in next 6 games. But it will be very hard without Draymond.

If no trade imminent I would assign Blake Griffin and Meyers Leonard to 10-day contracts. Griffin could fill Draymond role on the offense, he was that handoff player in Detroit, and Leonard would be a big body in the middle. Not perfect, but it could not be worse.
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Re: It’s over I’m calling it 

Post#125 » by WarriorGM » Thu Dec 14, 2023 12:50 pm

I think the chances of the team winning just got better.
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Re: It’s over I’m calling it 

Post#126 » by Jester_ » Thu Dec 14, 2023 3:12 pm

jozef wrote:Curry is at his top, he is stil as amazing as ever. Klay still gets his legs set well for shots on classic plays and Moody cannot do it yet. The mess is not complicated. It is pretty simple. Our centers are athletic tragedy. They both are smart guys, try their best but simply they are limited or did not put enough work in the offseason to be ready for NBA starting job.
It does open everything. Once Klay, Andrew or Steph could defer to open or semi-open center in the paint and he would finish it with an authority... it would be over. They would get unbeatable. It would be two-way offense at history-best.

Now we get very favorable schedule playing Portland twice, Brooklyn and Washington in next 6 games. But it will be very hard without Draymond.

If no trade imminent I would assign Blake Griffin and Meyers Leonard to 10-day contracts. Griffin could fill Draymond role on the offense, he was that handoff player in Detroit, and Leonard would be a big body in the middle. Not perfect, but it could not be worse.


Blake Griffin :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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Re: It’s over I’m calling it 

Post#127 » by jozef » Thu Dec 14, 2023 5:54 pm

You maybe do not know him but he was on 5 All-NBA Teams. Great vision and skills for point forward role of Draymond Green. Still 34 years old. He knows it all.
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Re: It’s over I’m calling it 

Post#128 » by EvanZ » Mon Jan 8, 2024 4:53 am

EvanZ wrote:The patient has died on the table. Time to move Steph to a contender for as many assets as we can possibly get. Move off Klay, Draymond and Wiggins. Time to rebuild. It’s done. It was a great era but the league has passed us by. It was bound to happen. Better to burn out than fade away.


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Re: It’s over I’m calling it 

Post#129 » by KevinMcreynolds » Mon Jan 8, 2024 5:08 am

0% chance Steph is traded, maybe a 5% chance Klay is shipped out. I’d say it’s 50/50 Dray and Wiggins are moved before the deadline.
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Re: It’s over I’m calling it 

Post#130 » by HiRez » Mon Jan 8, 2024 5:15 am

KevinMcreynolds wrote:0% chance Steph is traded, maybe a 5% chance Klay is shipped out. I’d say it’s 50/50 Dray and Wiggins are moved before the deadline.

I wouldn't say 0% on Steph because if he asks for it, it's 100%. He hasn't yet and I don't expect him to, but I put the chance of that happening at 10% and rising given the current state of affairs.
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Re: It’s over I’m calling it 

Post#131 » by superunknown » Mon Jan 8, 2024 10:09 am

KevinMcreynolds wrote:0% chance Steph is traded, maybe a 5% chance Klay is shipped out. I’d say it’s 50/50 Dray and Wiggins are moved before the deadline.


what's the point to keep klay - who is a big expiring contract and apparently far from an extension agreement in the off season - and trade dray and wiggins?
if you trade dray and wiggins you must trade klay also at that point. it wouldn't make any sense.
as said in another thread, one trade alone won't change much. even if you package paul+kuminga let's say for siakam or get markkanen, it would not change much. if you decide to pull the trigger, you go all the way through and make multiple trades to completely reshape the roster. it would be a gamble mid season, but with current configuration you go nowhere anyway, so....
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Re: It’s over I’m calling it 

Post#132 » by KevinMcreynolds » Mon Jan 8, 2024 1:31 pm

HiRez wrote:
KevinMcreynolds wrote:0% chance Steph is traded, maybe a 5% chance Klay is shipped out. I’d say it’s 50/50 Dray and Wiggins are moved before the deadline.

I wouldn't say 0% on Steph because if he asks for it, it's 100%. He hasn't yet and I don't expect him to, but I put the chance of that happening at 10% and rising given the current state of affairs.


He’s not a chode like other NBA stars, don’t see him doing the whole trade demand thing
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Re: It’s over I’m calling it 

Post#133 » by EvanZ » Mon Jan 8, 2024 2:13 pm

KevinMcreynolds wrote:
HiRez wrote:
KevinMcreynolds wrote:0% chance Steph is traded, maybe a 5% chance Klay is shipped out. I’d say it’s 50/50 Dray and Wiggins are moved before the deadline.

I wouldn't say 0% on Steph because if he asks for it, it's 100%. He hasn't yet and I don't expect him to, but I put the chance of that happening at 10% and rising given the current state of affairs.


He’s not a chode like other NBA stars, don’t see him doing the whole trade demand thing


Why woiuld you want to hold him hostage here in this situation? I don't get that.
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Re: It’s over I’m calling it 

Post#134 » by Jester_ » Mon Jan 8, 2024 2:15 pm

Steph's never gonna ask to leave. Hopefully our FO has enough balls to do the right thing and let him go.
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Re: It’s over I’m calling it 

Post#135 » by WarriorGM » Mon Jan 8, 2024 2:49 pm

Why is it there seems more enthusiasm talking about what might come next rather than maximizing what chances remain?

It's not over.
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Re: It’s over I’m calling it 

Post#136 » by bicycle » Mon Jan 8, 2024 5:05 pm

KevinMcreynolds wrote:0% chance Steph is traded, maybe a 5% chance Klay is shipped out. I’d say it’s 50/50 Dray and Wiggins are moved before the deadline.

No chance they trade Steph, yes. He's worth too much money to them still.

But if the goal is to do the most winning over the long term, it is time to recoup some assets from the current roster to contribute towards building the next roster. We might not win a title for the next 20 years, but we're not winning one with this team either, so might as well accelerate whatever the process is going to be.
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Re: It’s over I’m calling it 

Post#137 » by Onus » Mon Jan 8, 2024 5:17 pm

They can't trade Steph. They have the highest priced tickets in the league. Those ticket prices will plummet if they trade Steph. The money train will be over.
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Re: It’s over I’m calling it 

Post#138 » by HiRez » Mon Jan 8, 2024 6:46 pm

Onus wrote:They can't trade Steph. They have the highest priced tickets in the league. Those ticket prices will plummet if they trade Steph. The money train will be over.

They're going to plummet anyway if this team doesn't start looking fun to watch again, and winning. These games are a slog to sit through, I don't think many people look at them as "a good time out" right now, even when Steph is playing. It's not yet at the point where they're bailing en masse, but it's going to start happening slowly. Hell, you could see all the people leaving early last night before the game was even over. They're not dumb, they know bad basketball when they see it (yes, even from Steph), and a lot of them are probably not happy they paid premium money for a sub-par product (at least, the ones who actually paid for their own tickets). Next time they're thinking about going to the game, they're going to remember that.
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Re: It’s over I’m calling it 

Post#139 » by Onus » Mon Jan 8, 2024 7:04 pm

HiRez wrote:
Onus wrote:They can't trade Steph. They have the highest priced tickets in the league. Those ticket prices will plummet if they trade Steph. The money train will be over.

They're going to plummet anyway if this team doesn't start looking fun to watch again, and winning. These games are a slog to sit through, I don't think many people look at them as "a good time out" right now, even when Steph is playing. It's not yet at the point where they're bailing en masse, but it's going to start happening slowly. Hell, you could see all the people leaving early last night before the game was even over. They're not dumb, they know bad basketball when they see it (yes, even from Steph), and a lot of them are probably not happy they paid premium money for a sub-par product (at least, the ones who actually paid for their own tickets). Next time they're thinking about going to the game, they're going to remember that.

Imagine paying premium dollars to watch JK as the no 1 option. We'd be back to $10 games for a pack of 4 seats with the quickness. Even if it's a slow trickle down, it's much better to have a slow trickle than an abrupt stop. And just because you have draft picks doesn't guarantee anything. We were out of the playoffs for 20 years.
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Re: It’s over I’m calling it 

Post#140 » by CDM_Stats » Mon Jan 8, 2024 7:46 pm

Onus wrote:
HiRez wrote:
Onus wrote:They can't trade Steph. They have the highest priced tickets in the league. Those ticket prices will plummet if they trade Steph. The money train will be over.

They're going to plummet anyway if this team doesn't start looking fun to watch again, and winning. These games are a slog to sit through, I don't think many people look at them as "a good time out" right now, even when Steph is playing. It's not yet at the point where they're bailing en masse, but it's going to start happening slowly. Hell, you could see all the people leaving early last night before the game was even over. They're not dumb, they know bad basketball when they see it (yes, even from Steph), and a lot of them are probably not happy they paid premium money for a sub-par product (at least, the ones who actually paid for their own tickets). Next time they're thinking about going to the game, they're going to remember that.

Imagine paying premium dollars to watch JK as the no 1 option. We'd be back to $10 games for a pack of 4 seats with the quickness. Even if it's a slow trickle down, it's much better to have a slow trickle than an abrupt stop. And just because you have draft picks doesn't guarantee anything. We were out of the playoffs for 20 years.


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