Get rid of David Lee

TheChosenOne- · Post #16 » by **TheChosenOne-** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:54 pm

Jester_ wrote:I wish we had Masai.

Bob Meyers is already good and gonna be the best GM as he gets more experience

Jester_ · Post #17 » by **Jester_** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:01 pm

TheChosenOne- wrote:
Jester_ wrote:I wish we had Masai.

Bob Meyers is already good and gonna be the best GM as he gets more experience

Meyers is good, but I think his Bogut extension and 3-year deal for Speights have shown obvious chinks in his armour. Masai on the other hand is a God. We can't get rid of Lee, that guy got rid of Gay and Bargnani in a 6 month period.

whocurrz · Post #18 » by **whocurrz** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:18 pm

Not to mention Masai usually comes out on top in most of his trades and his propensity to draft well especially given his draft positions. I also give him due credit for the Lawson pick which I believe was a pick from their analytics department the Masai was a big part of at the time. Only mistake I'd credit him with is extending McGee.

Myers has been above average so far. He was a major factor in the trade for Bogut which was a good move. The Jack trade was good. Iguodala trade was a risky move but I liked it. He was probably one of the best fits for us in the NBA and one if the only attainable ones and the contract is at least solid. In free agency his ability to get Landry was a good move. O'Neal was a great signing. Speights was a bad signing but he's having a really bad year and the front office probably thought he could thrive with guys like curry and Klay helping space the floor. Lee and Landry played a lot of pick and pop and Speights was actually a very solid mid-range shooter. Douglass was a decent signing but not sure about the fit. Draft wise I give the credit of the Klay pick to West. The Barnes pick was good considering the need for a SF but Drummond and Henson would have also been picks that would have been good now and in the future. I understand why they passed on each though given concerns over Drunmonds terrible college play and bad experience with skinny PFs in Wright and Randolph. Ezeli and Green were great picks and Nedo is too early to judge. Contract wise he's signed guys for market value or below for the most part with good health. Overall I'd say the brain trust running our FO is doing a solid job.

ILOVEIT · Post #19 » by **ILOVEIT** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:33 pm

Solid job? These guys are fricken Einsteins compared to the last 30 years of GMing....

Myers Grade....A+++++++++++++++++++++++++

LeonGenesis · Post #20 » by **LeonGenesis** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:02 pm

It is lame to say that we won without Lee in the playoff last year. We had other players that contributed the win. It's not because of Lee. Lamo I must say. Why did we lose in the playoff without him anyway? yeah?

It's easy to sit here and say "I want him on my team" "I want A to repalce him" yadeya... Well, then go out there and make them come here. Geez LOL... easy say than done eh?

Lee is not just the problem...Warriors has a lot of issues with every players. I would trade them all since all of them are playing like crap.

I do hope that Lee has a personal issue that he sits for the rest of the season. I want to see how well Warriors do without him with the current roster

hahaha.

paul · Post #21 » by **paul** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:27 am

Jester_ wrote:
TheChosenOne- wrote:
Jester_ wrote:I wish we had Masai.

Bob Meyers is already good and gonna be the best GM as he gets more experience

Meyers is good, but I think his Bogut extension and 3-year deal for Speights have shown obvious chinks in his armour. Masai on the other hand is a God. We can't get rid of Lee, that guy got rid of Gay and Bargnani in a 6 month period.

Didn't Ujiri sign McGee to 4 years $44m? That Gay deal was superb from him, but I'd take Bogut's deal a thousand times out of a thousand over McGee's. None of these guys are perfect.

Coxy · Post #22 » by **Coxy** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:35 am

Jester_ wrote:
TheChosenOne- wrote:
Jester_ wrote:I wish we had Masai.

Bob Meyers is already good and gonna be the best GM as he gets more experience

Meyers is good, but I think his Bogut extension and 3-year deal for Speights have shown obvious chinks in his armour. Masai on the other hand is a God. We can't get rid of Lee, that guy got rid of Gay and Bargnani in a 6 month period.

Bogut extension? That was genius. He's the best C we've had since Thurmond. Locking him up for 3 more years was genius. Genius I tells you.

EvanZ · Post #23 » by **EvanZ** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:53 am

Needs to be shipped with Barnes while he has any value left. Nobody is taking on Lee straight up anyway.

I also think Lee will be fine on offense with Iggy healthy again.

HiRez · Post #24 » by **HiRez** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:06 am

This is pretty amazing:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/GSWFastBreak/status/413093563719639040[/tweet]

And this:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/GSWFastBreak/status/413089161935982592[/tweet]

and1GS · Post #25 » by **and1GS** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:30 am

It's because he goes up so tentative near the basket. It's like he's scared of his defender.

paul · Post #26 » by **paul** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:31 am

HiRez wrote:This is pretty amazing:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/GSWFastBreak/status/413093563719639040[/tweet]

And this:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/GSWFastBreak/status/413089161935982592[/tweet]

Lee has had a third as many shots blocked as Bogut has taken period.

and1GS · Post #27 » by **and1GS** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:32 am

And I don't see how Masai is a 'God.' Advanced stats advocate who's just starting out and clearing house. Right now, he's halfway to what David Kahn did. Not saying he sucks or is amazing, but he hasn't proven much yet.

Post #28 » by **Chris Porter's Hair** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:33 am

and1GS wrote:It's because he goes up so tentative near the basket. It's like he's scared of his defender.

That wouldn't be my guess. My guess would be because his moves are so calculated and predictable lately; people see them coming a mile away.

Now why this suddenly started, I'm less clear on. But stats like this back up what a few of us are saying: he is no hall of famer, but something has gone very wrong lately and made him *much* worse than he was in a hurry.

paul · Post #29 » by **paul** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:49 am

Chris Porter's Hair wrote:
and1GS wrote:It's because he goes up so tentative near the basket. It's like he's scared of his defender.

That wouldn't be my guess. My guess would be because his moves are so calculated and predictable lately; people see them coming a mile away.

Now why this suddenly started, I'm less clear on. But stats like this back up what a few of us are saying: he is no hall of famer, but something has gone very wrong lately and made him *much* worse than he was in a hurry.

Interestingly his FG% is within a couple of % of where it's been the past 4 years ago, so that tells me he's probably getting some more easy buckets to go with the extra misses.

Everyone can have their theory, but as I said the other day if I was defending Bogut and saw Lee make a move from the elbow I'd help off literally 100% of the time knowing that Lee simply refuses to pass to Bogut in those situations - he seems to be being blocked by the helping big as much as by his man. Every time he catches at the elbow he drives head long at the rim and never, ever passes when he does that.

Folks can speculate as to why, I have my own theories as I'm sure others do.

Coxy · Post #30 » by **Coxy** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:56 am

Chris Porter's Hair wrote:
and1GS wrote:It's because he goes up so tentative near the basket. It's like he's scared of his defender.

That wouldn't be my guess. My guess would be because his moves are so calculated and predictable lately; people see them coming a mile away.

Now why this suddenly started, I'm less clear on. But stats like this back up what a few of us are saying: he is no hall of famer, but something has gone very wrong lately and made him *much* worse than he was in a hurry.

When I was playing, my instinct was to seek out contact at the rim. I don't know why, but when I drove it to the rack, I was aggressively looking to charge at the rim protectors and take them on. I guess I felt as though that would put me in control in the contest or something, but it seemed to work because the other team knew I was coming at them all the time. It also made me better at finishing because my thoughts were contact before the finish, so adjusting in the air became a forte. David Lee, at least in this season, is playing the exact opposite way. Each time I watch him, he's trying to sneak and finesse his looks into the hoop, rather than really attacking the opponents at the rim.

The best I've ever watched at seeking out the contact and finishing is Kobe. MJ, Malone and Barkley were also masters at it.

Xplatformer · Post #31 » by **Xplatformer** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:06 am

LeonGenesis wrote:It is lame to say that we won without Lee in the playoff last year. We had other players that contributed the win. It's not because of Lee. Lamo I must say. Why did we lose in the playoff without him anyway? yeah?

It's easy to sit here and say "I want him on my team" "I want A to repalce him" yadeya... Well, then go out there and make them come here. Geez LOL... easy say than done eh?

Lee is not just the problem...Warriors has a lot of issues with every players. I would trade them all since all of them are playing like crap.

I do hope that Lee has a personal issue that he sits for the rest of the season. I want to see how well Warriors do without him with the current roster hahaha.

David Lee is overpaid for his production and value. By a LOT.

Because of such, and his obvious inability to play defense he's going to be the guy people point to the most. Yeah, Klay has been playing like crap. He makes a lot less than Lee and I'd argue Klay is more valuable.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P06gtSjmFy8[/youtube]. That is not what a successful team gets from the power forward spot.

GSWhoopfan wrote:To blame bad defense on one player isn't fair. It's on all 5 guys on the court.

Agree completely.

But then, what are you going to do about the poor coaching, the poor rotations on defense, and the offensive sets that quite often look like "Klay, run here...if you're open, shoot" "Hey Steph, run around ...the SECOND you're open shoot"?

The team obviously has bigger problems than David Lee...but he's one of them.

whocurrz · Post #32 » by **whocurrz** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:19 am

EvanZ wrote:Needs to be shipped with Barnes while he has any value left. Nobody is taking on Lee straight up anyway.

I also think Lee will be fine on offense with Iggy healthy again.

Don't you think we're selling short on Barnes if we use him just to get rid of Lee? And I know you're not super high on Barnes but he has better value and is one of our last trade chips which is especially important with the picks we have up for AI. It's not like greatly reducing Lee's minutes or moving him to the bench would hurt the team. He'd be better in that role and it's not like it would be a Biedrins or Jefferson situation where it is a completely useless player. Just an overpaid player.

I just think it's a really in opportune time to trade him considering how many teams are tanking that the way to help our team best is to shuffle minutes and rotations (especially considering the roster turnover we've had), use Lee in a role that fits our team better and try to move him in the offseason. We won't get much but his contract will be shorter, he'll probably be playing better ball, more teams will be trying to make risky moves to contend and I doubt we'd have to give up Barnes. Also with ONeal out maybe he starts playing more C which combined with the return of AI could boost his value a bit from the all time low it's at now

EvanZ · Post #33 » by **EvanZ** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:23 am

whocurrz wrote:
EvanZ wrote:Needs to be shipped with Barnes while he has any value left. Nobody is taking on Lee straight up anyway.

I also think Lee will be fine on offense with Iggy healthy again.

Don't you think we're selling short on Barnes if we use him just to get rid of Lee? And I know you're not super high on Barnes but he has better value and is one of our last trade chips which is especially important with the picks we have up for AI. It's not like greatly reducing Lee's minutes or moving him to the bench would hurt the team. He'd be better in that role and it's not like it would be a Biedrins or Jefferson situation where it is a completely useless player. Just an overpaid player.

You have to make bets on players. If we can do a deal where we get something more valuable in return, then I would do it. I see Barnes at his peak being a good role player, never sniffing an All-Star game appearance. I would have no problem trading a guy like that when you have a guy like Draymond who is arguably a better player and will be paid probably half as much.

510TWSS · Post #34 » by **510TWSS** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:40 am

I can see both sides of the argument for adding Barnes into a deal to sweeten the pot making Lee's contract an easier pill to swallow. It basically comes down to the player the Warriors are receiving. I am unsure of the kind of offers we'd receive for Lee + Barnes that it'd be hard to say if we're selling Barnes short.

If you've seen enough of Barnes to think he will not be invited to many future all star games taking advantage of his perceived potential in the eyes of other teams would probably be a good idea.

For me though it would depend on the kind of offer we're getting. I wouldn't actively be trying to ditch Barnes no matter how much he frustrates me at this time.

Jester_ · Post #35 » by **Jester_** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:18 am

paul wrote:
Jester_ wrote:
TheChosenOne- wrote:

Bob Meyers is already good and gonna be the best GM as he gets more experience

Meyers is good, but I think his Bogut extension and 3-year deal for Speights have shown obvious chinks in his armour. Masai on the other hand is a God. We can't get rid of Lee, that guy got rid of Gay and Bargnani in a 6 month period.

Didn't Ujiri sign McGee to 4 years $44m? That Gay deal was superb from him, but I'd take Bogut's deal a thousand times out of a thousand over McGee's. None of these guys are perfect.

McGee was pretty bad but... that's his only real bleh move he's done so far, imo. McGee looked like he was about to break out at that point too, to be fair.