Trayce Jackson-Davis = Green's Replacement?

[Jester_]

TJD can't shoot a 3 to save his life. He does have limits. But the real question is simple: is he better than anything else on the roster (Looney)?

The answer appears to be an overwhelming yes. He should play a lot until we find out he can't.

Bingo

[AdonalFoyle4Prez]

I know, it's jumping the gun a bit here, but one can wonder. They share similar qualities (Defense, willingness to pass/share the ball, and rebound), but TJD has big shoes to fill as Green has the upper-hand seeing he's been the anchor in those categories.

I do see that TJD has the knack to find others, rebound at a moderately good rate, and can stay with his man, defensively. If only Kerr can see a 4-year college player with polished skills can do wonders for the team looking for answers at their position of need. Give him more minutes/reps in real, meaningful games to see what he's about as the 57th pick.

I'll be in the minority on this, but yeah, with one caveat.

He's a smart and mature kid, and he averaged 4 assists in his last year in college. That's pretty amazing for a college big. He still has room to improve his game, but even if it's only on the BBIQ, that would be fine. IF (and here's the caveat) the Dubs can put a center next to him who has some range and is not clogging the lane.

I've loved this incredible run, but it's time to make some moves while the pieces still have some value. Klay, Wiggins, Kuminga, CP3, Moody. And Green.

Why the hell not? Draymond came out as a tough 4 year college player. TJD the same. Trace has a high IQ, is able to switch pretty well....a MUCH better shot blocker and lob threat.

Draymond is one of a kind....no doubt. But TJD does things right now that Draymond could never do.

He will never be that vocal red-ass leader and I don't' see him running the point.

But as a replacement? Upgrade in size, power, probably rebounding, shot blocking and lob threat. I'm certain he'll be very good screen setter as well.

I'd take that over a dude past his prime, choking the life out of the team's chemistry, completely unhinged at times.

When I say replacement, should emphasis more with positioning followed by skillset. He could be interchangeable at the 4 and 5. But, another player I'd say TJD has the potential to model after his game is BAM ADEBAYO. Physically, they both stand between 6'8" - 6'9" and have a wing span of 7'1" - 7'2". Bam can't shoot the 3 either (At least, not consistently), but does so many other things so well. More ideal comparison.

[sonnyhill]

I'll be in the minority on this, but yeah, with one caveat.

He's a smart and mature kid, and he averaged 4 assists in his last year in college. That's pretty amazing for a college big. He still has room to improve his game, but even if it's only on the BBIQ, that would be fine. IF (and here's the caveat) the Dubs can put a center next to him who has some range and is not clogging the lane.

I've loved this incredible run, but it's time to make some moves while the pieces still have some value. Klay, Wiggins, Kuminga, CP3, Moody. And Green.

Why the hell not? Draymond came out as a tough 4 year college player. TJD the same. Trace has a high IQ, is able to switch pretty well....a MUCH better shot blocker and lob threat.

Draymond is one of a kind....no doubt. But TJD does things right now that Draymond could never do.

He will never be that vocal red-ass leader and I don't' see him running the point.

But as a replacement? Upgrade in size, power, probably rebounding, shot blocking and lob threat. I'm certain he'll be very good screen setter as well.

I'd take that over a dude past his prime, choking the life out of the team's chemistry, completely unhinged at times.

When I say replacement, should emphasis more with positioning followed by skillset. He could be interchangeable at the 4 and 5. But, another player I'd say TJD has the potential to model after his game is BAM ADEBAYO. Physically, they both stand between 6'8" - 6'9" and have a wing span of 7'1" - 7'2". Bam can't shoot the 3 either (At least, not consistently), but does so many other things so well. More ideal comparison.

Bam leaves a little more sweat on the floor than TJD (or any other player in the NBA) does, too.

[TB]

I am a huge Trayce fan (had him 4th on big board when we selected Podz)... but I think we are starting to both over-hype Trayce and underrate Loon lol

Loon does look a bit battered so far, and the perimeter defense hasn't been as successful as in the past (could also argue thats just as much having Dray gone and the G/Fs out of position at fault as it is Loon's mobility). But some of the other issues I see trending positive soon... like turnover rate and inside scoring. And honestly, inside scoring hasn't been bad, it just hasn't been as insanely efficient as last year.

As for Trayce, the thing I've been most excited about is that some of the athletic concerns have transitioned okay to the NBA. His interior defense has translated pretty well, as has his offensive finishing (should note that he finishes at the rim almost identical to Loon this year, yet everyone thinks Loon is clueless at the hoop and Trayce dunks everything lol). He hasn't been tested too much on the perimeter, but hasn't looked lost or like a baby giraffe out there, so thats good. Also has great recovery when he does get beat (showed this a ton in college). In transition he's really slow but puts in a decent effort to get back into position as much as he can.

I think our center spot is still totally fine if we choose to stay the course. Not that we can't look at guys like Claxton/Jackson/etc if they are available.

[HiRez]

As for Trayce, the thing I've been most excited about is that some of the athletic concerns have transitioned okay to the NBA. His interior defense has translated pretty well, as has his offensive finishing (should note that he finishes at the rim almost identical to Loon this year, yet everyone thinks Loon is clueless at the hoop and Trayce dunks everything lol).

28.6% of TJDs shots are dunks, only 15% for Loon, so there is a difference there. Essentially TJD dunks it about twice as often as Loon in terms of shot attempts. But it's even more stark when you factor in time played: Loon has 13 dunks in 574 minutes played, TJD has 10 in 132 minutes. Put another way, Loon dunks once every 44 minutes on average, TJD dunks once every 13 minutes, or about 3 1/2 times as often in game time. Loon probably spends more time outside the post on offense though (especially with Draymond out), which could explain some of that.

[Warriors Analyst]

I am a huge Trayce fan (had him 4th on big board when we selected Podz)... but I think we are starting to both over-hype Trayce and underrate Loon lol

Loon does look a bit battered so far, and the perimeter defense hasn't been as successful as in the past (could also argue thats just as much having Dray gone and the G/Fs out of position at fault as it is Loon's mobility). But some of the other issues I see trending positive soon... like turnover rate and inside scoring. And honestly, inside scoring hasn't been bad, it just hasn't been as insanely efficient as last year.

As for Trayce, the thing I've been most excited about is that some of the athletic concerns have transitioned okay to the NBA. His interior defense has translated pretty well, as has his offensive finishing (should note that he finishes at the rim almost identical to Loon this year, yet everyone thinks Loon is clueless at the hoop and Trayce dunks everything lol). He hasn't been tested too much on the perimeter, but hasn't looked lost or like a baby giraffe out there, so thats good. Also has great recovery when he does get beat (showed this a ton in college). In transition he's really slow but puts in a decent effort to get back into position as much as he can.

I think our center spot is still totally fine if we choose to stay the course. Not that we can't look at guys like Claxton/Jackson/etc if they are available.

TJD should keep getting changes. But it's going to be a while until he earns Kerr's trust to play over Looney consistently, and for good reason. Looney has looked cooked before. Does anyone remember how exhausted he looked around the 2022 All-Star Break? Ideally, the Warriors play TJD and find some additional frontcourt depth to preserve Looney in such a way that the Warriors get the peak version of Looney. What has happened instead is that in three consecutive seasons, Looney has played lots of minutes without much rest. It's not out of the question that the wear and tear has affected Loon's ability to play at his peak level.

[TB]

As for Trayce, the thing I've been most excited about is that some of the athletic concerns have transitioned okay to the NBA. His interior defense has translated pretty well, as has his offensive finishing (should note that he finishes at the rim almost identical to Loon this year, yet everyone thinks Loon is clueless at the hoop and Trayce dunks everything lol).

28.6% of TJDs shots are dunks, only 15% for Loon, so there is a difference there. Essentially TJD dunks it about twice as often as Loon in terms of shot attempts. But it's even more stark when you factor in time played: Loon has 13 dunks in 574 minutes played, TJD has 10 in 132 minutes. Put another way, Loon dunks once every 44 minutes on average, TJD dunks once every 13 minutes, or about 3 1/2 times as often in game time. Loon probably spends more time outside the post on offense though (especially with Draymond out), which could explain some of that.

I didn't mean actual amount of dunks. I just meant that regardless of what type of shot is being taken at the rim, they convert about the same percentage. But your point about just the sheer volume increase of in-the-paint attempts is valid. Trayce is getting a couple more attempts plus more FTs per possession because he's got the athleticism to get in more positions to attempt them, and thats a massive bonus he has over Loon.

[DonaldSanders]

I am a huge Trayce fan (had him 4th on big board when we selected Podz)... but I think we are starting to both over-hype Trayce and underrate Loon lol

Loon does look a bit battered so far, and the perimeter defense hasn't been as successful as in the past (could also argue thats just as much having Dray gone and the G/Fs out of position at fault as it is Loon's mobility). But some of the other issues I see trending positive soon... like turnover rate and inside scoring. And honestly, inside scoring hasn't been bad, it just hasn't been as insanely efficient as last year.

As for Trayce, the thing I've been most excited about is that some of the athletic concerns have transitioned okay to the NBA. His interior defense has translated pretty well, as has his offensive finishing (should note that he finishes at the rim almost identical to Loon this year, yet everyone thinks Loon is clueless at the hoop and Trayce dunks everything lol). He hasn't been tested too much on the perimeter, but hasn't looked lost or like a baby giraffe out there, so thats good. Also has great recovery when he does get beat (showed this a ton in college). In transition he's really slow but puts in a decent effort to get back into position as much as he can.

I think our center spot is still totally fine if we choose to stay the course. Not that we can't look at guys like Claxton/Jackson/etc if they are available.

TJD should keep getting changes. But it's going to be a while until he earns Kerr's trust to play over Looney consistently, and for good reason. Looney has looked cooked before. Does anyone remember how exhausted he looked around the 2022 All-Star Break? Ideally, the Warriors play TJD and find some additional frontcourt depth to preserve Looney in such a way that the Warriors get the peak version of Looney. What has happened instead is that in three consecutive seasons, Looney has played lots of minutes without much rest. It's not out of the question that the wear and tear has affected Loon's ability to play at his peak level.

Yeah I am still a Looney supporter, but I am concerned. Does he need rest? Does he have lingering COVID (he was sick at the start of the season). I don't know what is going on, but it's not the same Loon we're used to. He has seemed slow the whole season so I'm a bit confused by the idea he is worn out. Maybe he needs general rest after recovering from being ill, I don't know. But he does not have the same energy or movement, and as an already slow guy that's a tough spot to be in. Look at pics of him from 2 years ago, he looked trimmer and more fit.

Give Trayce time to develop while Looney recovers, reduce his minutes or give him some time off. The thing is I think Trayce has a higher ceiling than Looney's peak, so I'd really like to see what we have in Trayce considering we're lacking in all-around talent.

[jozef]

It is vice versa. Loon could play so many games in a row cause he does not jump. High jumping brings a lot of risk and wear on the body. But there is no other way to play a center position in the NBA. He would be a bench warmer elsewhere.

[thunderdunk]

As said, TJD has looked good so far. Much better than many expected. Looney has looked slow, but that could be residual from illness or from two straight years of not missing any games. Looney has been a stud and a fixture for years, and there’s no reason to write him off. Thankfully Klay seems to have recovered his shot. Wiggs is looking better since he got moved to the bench. MDJ still needs to make some adjustments to the squad, as this team as constructed isn’t a contender this year.

[jozef]

There is a reason to write Loon off - unathleticism...
He know he cannot jump so he is limited to very open shots. I remember a play when Podz jumped to Claxton and dropped a pass to Kevon who did not even expected it - a turnover. All other NBA starters would be hungry for a dunk in that situation.
In 17 minutes TJD scored 14 points. He played 15+ minutes 3 times: scoring 13, 8 and 14 points, overall +24. Kevon averages 5.5 ppg in 22.4 mpg.

[oaktownwarriors87]

As for Trayce, the thing I've been most excited about is that some of the athletic concerns have transitioned okay to the NBA. His interior defense has translated pretty well, as has his offensive finishing (should note that he finishes at the rim almost identical to Loon this year, yet everyone thinks Loon is clueless at the hoop and Trayce dunks everything lol).

28.6% of TJDs shots are dunks, only 15% for Loon, so there is a difference there. Essentially TJD dunks it about twice as often as Loon in terms of shot attempts. But it's even more stark when you factor in time played: Loon has 13 dunks in 574 minutes played, TJD has 10 in 132 minutes. Put another way, Loon dunks once every 44 minutes on average, TJD dunks once every 13 minutes, or about 3 1/2 times as often in game time. Loon probably spends more time outside the post on offense though (especially with Draymond out), which could explain some of that.

Small sample size, but TJD also gets to the free throw line at an extremely high rate. His rate of 0.771 is about double of Kuminga and Curry and about triple of what everyone else on the team gets. He's 15th in the NBA in FTA per 100 possessions. Embid, Giannis, Butler, Lillard, SGA, KD, Booker, Young, Fox, Zion, Doncic, DeRozan, Jordan and Bam are the guys ahead of him.

I really think Warriors fans are starting to see how good he is and can be. His strengths fill many of this teams weaknesses. Draymonds out, so let's give him some run. If he continues to be limited I'll have to totally give up on Kerr.

[Warriors Analyst]

As said, TJD has looked good so far. Much better than many expected. Looney has looked slow, but that could be residual from illness or from two straight years of not missing any games. Looney has been a stud and a fixture for years, and there’s no reason to write him off. Thankfully Klay seems to have recovered his shot. Wiggs is looking better since he got moved to the bench. MDJ still needs to make some adjustments to the squad, as this team as constructed isn’t a contender this year.

I think it has less to do with not missing any games so much as it is the Warriors' total lack of frontcourt depth. The Warriors' defensive system asks its C's to spend a lot of time outside of the paint and for that type of defense to work, the effort level needs to be high and relentless. That's easier to do when you have a collection of power wings/stretch bigs like we did in the 22 season. But in the previous two seasons, Dray and Loon have been the only frontcourt players the Warriors have that can play solid defense and they've been asked to put out messes for small lineups with uneven defensive players. That adds up over time and this years' team is having similar issues while also doing weird things with who defends whom, as CDM has highlighted at length wrt to Wiggs/Klay.

[thunderdunk]

Tonight's +25 for TJD is about as good as it gets. Would he have been +25 with Draymond in the lineup? Never. That said, as said, he's more of a Looney replacement than Draymond replacement. But Looney is a keeper. Maybe he's just tired of bringing it every night and will rise to the occasion for the playoffs. Not a great approach, but maybe reality. In any trade scenarios, keep both Looney and TJD.

[Chupchup]

He had a really good night but I don't think he can guard Joker or AD or Embiid etc this year. With that being said, love what he brings to the team. TDJ + BP have been real steals from this years draft for us.

[DonaldSanders]

He had a really good night but I don't think he can guard Joker or AD or Embiid etc this year. With that being said, love what he brings to the team. TDJ + BP have been real steals from this years draft for us.

Well, how many players can really guard Joker/AD/Embiid? You try to limit those guys. TJD provides a lot more efficiency for our offense, both being involved in scoring and keeping those 3 home guarding him. It's been a huge issue for us with guys sagging off of Loon.

But there will still be some growing pain moments, I think it's better to get them out of the way sooner than later. His learning curve is clearly easier than a normal rookie, being a 4-year college player. After we picked this guy I watched extended highlight reels of him, and I wondered why he fell so low. Seems like the classic college player where people make assumptions that his height/skillset combo won't translate, but good players find a way to make it work.

[Onus]

He had a really good night but I don't think he can guard Joker or AD or Embiid etc this year. With that being said, love what he brings to the team. TDJ + BP have been real steals from this years draft for us.

The drafting this year is such a relief from what we've been doing. It's just such a shame that Bob was drafting when we had lottery picks.

[KevinMcreynolds]

Loon definitely getting underrated, I mean dude was our 3rd most important player during our championship run 18 months ago

[jozef]

Your 3rd most important was benched in the Finále somehow...

[ShootersShoot]

MJD is proving his worth...Im pretty relieved he is our gm lol