[MERGED] Klay Thompson

[Twinkie defense]

Sleepy, past results do not indicate future performance...

I remember well when majority opinion seemed to be that Monta was done, once he scootered his ankle. A lot of similar pessimism on Steph's ankles.

The same knee or back injuries consistently flaring up is a big problem. Getting body slammed on your wrist one year and elbowed in the ribs another are recoverable injuries, and not chronic.

I'm more worried about Iggy's health these days than Bogut's.

Bogut makes $13/$12/$11 mil over the next three seasons (including this season). He's 29 years old. I'm flabbergasted that anyone thinks his contract is a problem - if you want the Knicks will trade us for him today.

[Sleepy51]

Sleepy, past results do not indicate future performance...

You got your hackneyed platitudes wrong.

The correct disclaimer is that "past performance is no GUARANTEE of future results." Past results are however indicative of reasonable expectations of future performance under similar circumstances. Anyone not interested in losing their shirt takes past results seriously in considering future investments.

[FNQ]

Good illustration between uneducated concern and educated concern was Steph Curry.

I came here the day after he rolled his ankle in the preseason after his extension. Told everyone it was the beginning of the end for injured Steph - watching how his ankle rolled and the aftermath answered a ton of questions, medically. The usual chicken littles laughed about how him rolling his ankle could possibly be a good thing.

That said, Bogut had holes drilled into his ankle. Holes don't get smaller over time. Common sense indicates future performance, and its not IF, its WHEN Bogut's ankle starts deteriorating to the point where he can't play any longer. While our contract with him likely wont ever be construed as bad - and no one has even remotely said anything like that - taking the unnecessary risk of inking him to an extension when we likely could have added safeguards into the contract this past offseason is a foolish move that we have to hope works out. Something with an ETO, insurance safeguards, or a non-fully-gtd final year could have helped alleviate that. We went the risky route to ensure that Bogut didn't bolt, instead of letting the market define itself. There were few suitors that could A) pay Bogut close to what we could and B) offer the same championship aspirations.

Not a particularly saavy move, but in the end its nothing thats going to cripple us. The amnesty, however..

[Sleepy51]

I haven't even begun to worry about his contract. I am worried about him playing enough games in June to help us beat good teams. I am worried about him doing the same thing year after year and expecting a different result.

[a8bil]

I hate doing it, being in the medical field, but I do believe in bad/good luck. At my poker game, there is one guy who just draws the worst cards possible. I'll go all-in with <50% odds at any time against him, because he just runs poor. I trade with him in fantasy, because whoever he acquires gets injured, and whoever he deals blows up.

Bogut may have bad luck with injuries, but they are so consistent that its clear he's doing something to cause them himself. So we're left to just hope he stays healthy, and that's fine. But even though he has nothing chronic going on... how many games do you expect to see him next year? I guarantee your honest answer isn't 82. It probably isn't 70 even. And its because even though you dont know exactly what it will be, odds are that Bogut misses a chunk of games due to injury.

I expect him to play around 85% to 90% of games. I don't expect continuing season-ending problems

I believe that 6 out of 9 years so far have ended with Bogut injured and not playing in the teams final game. So that is a statistically unsound expectation.

But, he's played at least 65 games in 6 of 9 years, so it's not as bad a bet as you suggest.

[Sleepy51]

I was referring to your second assumption only. There is no magic number of games where I will be satisfied with Bogut's health if he doesn't finish the season on the court.

[Twinkie defense]

Sleepy, past results do not indicate future performance...

You got your hackneyed platitudes wrong.

The correct disclaimer is that "past performance is no GUARANTEE of future results." Past results are however indicative of reasonable expectations of future performance under similar circumstances. Anyone not interested in losing their shirt takes past results seriously in considering future investments.

Well let me be more straightforward - that Bogut got elbowed in the ribs last season has no bearing on weather he gets elbowed in the ribs this season.

Playing in the trenches means your going to get knocked out some games, that's factored into Bogut's salary. Do you want to have backups? Absolutely. The main thing is that Bogut has not had chronic injuries. If you want to worry about players' chronic injuries you're looking at the wrong guy - it's Iggy that's become a risk of chronic injury.

And I think our experiences with Monta and Steph are very relevant here - they healed now they're better.

[Sleepy51]

Sleepy, past results do not indicate future performance...

You got your hackneyed platitudes wrong.

The correct disclaimer is that "past performance is no GUARANTEE of future results." Past results are however indicative of reasonable expectations of future performance under similar circumstances. Anyone not interested in losing their shirt takes past results seriously in considering future investments.

Well let me be more straightforward - that Bogut got elbowed in the ribs last season has no bearing on weather he gets elbowed in the ribs this season.

You are free to believe that but you are wrong. He got elbowed in he runs because he plays the game in a manner that with his body type makes him more exposed to contact injuries, falls and a host of other "freak accidents." His style of play elevates the risk that he will get kneed in he balls, choke on an elbow, land on his head or crash into a sideline photographer. After years of repeating the same types of "freak accidents" he needs to either adjust his game (which I am against) or adjust the way he trains his body to be able to minimize and avoid more of these blows without ending the season in a hospital bed 6 out of 9 years.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums

[Left*My*Heart]

No overreaction here...I want GSW to win it all, and as much as I like Klay, I'm not wed to any one player. The Curry signing was of a player with a higher projected ceiling than Klay who had a chronic injury risk. Discount applied. Bogut did not have a chronic injury that threatened his career. He had a few mishaps. Nothing more or less. He signed a declining contract at $12MM...even getting 60 games out of him per year, he's more than worth it.

While I fully think that Klay is top 2 SG in the league right now, let's be clear: Klay at his position is not as important as Bogut at his, or Steph at his. Further, while Klay's profile is justifiably climbing, if he played 5 years ago, Klay would be struggling to be in the discussion with Allen, Wade, Kobe, Roy, VC, Gordon, and Howard, as best at his position, 2-way or not. We shouldn't be falling all ourselves to sign him to max contract just because the position is at a nadir.

You seem to want to go back to Larry Riley's decisions and smear the current FO with his decisions. Get over it.

I don't get this point. The front office with Riley or Myers, is still under Lacob and his collective decision making. Riley, Myers or anyone else in the front office under Lacob, does not work in a vacuum. Even the Lee S&T was signed off by Lacob as well.

I also believe that Klay's impact on Curry's game is huge and not easily replaceable. Klay would also be relevant
even if we go back 5 years because of his impact on both ends of the court.

15 million a season is not a max contract; it is the maximum Klay can sign right now. He is clearly better than Parsons or Hayward, so the market has been set.

you're take assumes--actually requires--lacob to be a meddling owner. Ultimately, the owner should sign off on major financial transactions, but the GM should be making decisions as it pertains to basketball operations. Any GM worth their salt will insist on that. Lacob gave Riley some rope...Riley hung himself and now we have Myers. He's been making good decisions.

Klay is good--I'm one of his biggest supporters--but Klay at max will = cap constrained GSW. As stupid as FNQ thinks it is, I'm okay with the way the FO is handling this.

Meddling, I didn't say that. I'm sure you can find a Lacob interview out there or two, regarding his management style. He wants involvement from his staff regarding basketball decisions and everyone has input. He said he was out voted on the draft that brought us Barnes. Myers does not make decisions on his own or we probably would have Love.

You need to pay attention to how the organization is ran. You can go as recent as the Love snafu to see how things work in the front office.

I'm not disappointed in how the front office is handling the Klay extension. It is a collective decision and we will see how it unwinds. My point is how you think things work, when that info is readily available to the contrary.

I will also disagree with the notion Riley hung himself. Riley wasn't Lacob's hire, Myers was. It was simple speeding up the clock on moving Riley out. Again, West, Lacob , Kirk, Kerr and a couple more I can't think of, have clout and can veto things, as well as approve things. It is management by committee.

[a8bil]

I don't get this point. The front office with Riley or Myers, is still under Lacob and his collective decision making. Riley, Myers or anyone else in the front office under Lacob, does not work in a vacuum. Even the Lee S&T was signed off by Lacob as well.

I also believe that Klay's impact on Curry's game is huge and not easily replaceable. Klay would also be relevant
even if we go back 5 years because of his impact on both ends of the court.

15 million a season is not a max contract; it is the maximum Klay can sign right now. He is clearly better than Parsons or Hayward, so the market has been set.

you're take assumes--actually requires--lacob to be a meddling owner. Ultimately, the owner should sign off on major financial transactions, but the GM should be making decisions as it pertains to basketball operations. Any GM worth their salt will insist on that. Lacob gave Riley some rope...Riley hung himself and now we have Myers. He's been making good decisions.

Klay is good--I'm one of his biggest supporters--but Klay at max will = cap constrained GSW. As stupid as FNQ thinks it is, I'm okay with the way the FO is handling this.

Meddling, I didn't say that. I'm sure you can find a Lacob interview out there or two, regarding his management style. He wants involvement from his staff regarding basketball decisions and everyone has input. He said he was out voted on the draft that brought us Barnes. Myers does not make decisions on his own or we probably would have Love.

You need to pay attention to how the organization is ran. You can go as recent as the Love snafu to see how things work in the front office.

I'm not disappointed in how the front office is handling the Klay extension. It is a collective decision and we will see how it unwinds. My point is how you think things work, when that info is readily available to the contrary.

I will also disagree with the notion Riley hung himself. Riley wasn't Lacob's hire, Myers was. It was simple speeding up the clock on moving Riley out. Again, West, Lacob , Kirk, Kerr and a couple more I can't think of, have clout and can veto things, as well as approve things. It is management by committee.

You seem to have more insight than I do into the inner machinations of the Warriors' FO. Please tell me your sources, because I don't see the public transparency you claim exists.

[Mylie10]

Much of what he is saying is public knowledge. Lacob, Myers, West, have all talked about decision by committee, but don't let Lacob fool you, if he felt very strongly on something, he will be the final say.

[Twinkie defense]

Here's a random sampling of centers and their number of games played last season:

DeAndre Jordan: 82
Demarcus Cousins: 71
Dwight Howard: 71
Andrew Bogut: 67
Anderson Verajao: 65
Kendrick Perkins: 62
Pau Gasol: 60
Marc Gasol: 59
Tyson Chandler: 55
Brook Lopez: 17

Is there something wrong with Bogut? Or is missing some games due to injury just an occupational hazard for centers?

[Jester_]

Here's a random sampling of centers and their number of games played last season:

DeAndre Jordan: 82
Demarcus Cousins: 71
Dwight Howard: 71
Andrew Bogut: 67
Anderson Verajao: 65
Kendrick Perkins: 62
Pau Gasol: 60
Marc Gasol: 59
Tyson Chandler: 55
Brook Lopez: 17

Is there something wrong with Bogut? Or is missing some games due to injury just an occupational hazard for centers?

Interesting point. I wonder how those numbers would look if we looked back at the 80's and 90's... I'll have to crunch those numbers sometimes. It's true though -- I think Bogut's injuries have just been repeatedly weird and coming at inopportune moments.

[turk3d]

You got your hackneyed platitudes wrong.

The correct disclaimer is that "past performance is no GUARANTEE of future results." Past results are however indicative of reasonable expectations of future performance under similar circumstances. Anyone not interested in losing their shirt takes past results seriously in considering future investments.

Well let me be more straightforward - that Bogut got elbowed in the ribs last season has no bearing on weather he gets elbowed in the ribs this season.

You are free to believe that but you are wrong. He got elbowed in he runs because he plays the game in a manner that with his body type makes him more exposed to contact injuries, falls and a host of other "freak accidents." His style of play elevates the risk that he will get kneed in he balls, choke on an elbow, land on his head or crash into a sideline photographer. After years of repeating the same types of "freak accidents" he needs to either adjust his game (which I am against) or adjust the way he trains his body to be able to minimize and avoid more of these blows without ending the season in a hospital bed 6 out of 9 years.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums

Bogut who we all know is a great defensive player, is not too good in defending his body. You have to have the awareness when you can see that someone is about to slam into you, in addition paying even more careful attention to certain parts of your body (ribs being one thing, face another, nads another just to give a few examples).

He has no regard for his body being hit. Kind of reminds as the boxer who says "hit me in the face" to show how tough he is. Doesn't usually work too well. As tough as the guy is, I'd hate to see him get into a fight. He'd get the beat out of him. Maybe a martial arts program would help as suggested.

The Schoolboy approach:
http://www.wikihow.com/Defend-Yourself- ... -at-School

or the Sleepy Approach:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvRRb3kbKjQ

[BROWN]

Market price says Parsons and Leonard. We'll see what Leonard gets, but Parsons really killed it with his deal.

I miss you guys.

[Mylie10]

Market price says Parsons and Leonard. We'll see what Leonard gets, but Parsons really killed it with his deal.

I miss you guys.

Where you been Brown....long time no read

[hamncheese]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JohnMiddlekauff/status/527471356795830272[/tweet]

[Mylie10]

Good...I hope so. Looking forward to all the threads years from now saying what a mistake the Klay contract was and how stupid our front office is....Yahoo!

[a8bil]

Good...I hope so. Looking forward to all the threads years from now saying what a mistake the Klay contract was and how stupid our front office is....Yahoo!

LOL...only way that happens if if Klay starts counting his money rather than improving his game.

[Mylie10]

Good...I hope so. Looking forward to all the threads years from now saying what a mistake the Klay contract was and how stupid our front office is....Yahoo!

LOL...only way that happens if if Klay starts counting his money rather than improving his game.

Just wait for the first game he goes 4-17 and he misses an important shot....or the first time he blows a layup in a critical moment....it'll be fun...we can monitor things in the game threads and watch all the over the top yahoos go crazy over his contract, the second things don't go just right.