Barnes takes a shot at Jackson?

Twinkie defense · Post #101 » by **Twinkie defense** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:37 am

Of course Draymond is better than Barnes, but I would be happy to see more of either one (or both) at the four.

ILOVEIT · Post #102 » by **ILOVEIT** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:05 am

DynastySS wrote:I ask it all the time and have not received an honest answer.

Barnes supporters - what is that you have seen in his college or NBA game that says he will be a decent player one day?

It's not what I saw in College..it's what I saw first year. In his first game against Kobe Bryant he took Kobe to the basket on the low block repeatedly. He was patient and explosive....Kobe could NOT guard him one on one. Barnes is a natural low post scorer. In his first year he was getting the ball very deep in the post. He's athletic, skilled....finishes at least as well as Klay and probably a tad better.

In his second year he was standing around at the three point line...being asked to take the ball and break down his opponents and get to the rim. That was a major change. Instead of receving the ball deep in the post he was asked to shoot from three or dribble past one or two defenders constantly.

Finally...I think he's cold blooded. He makes big shots without .choking....he hit's free throws calmly....

I think he's going to be a big time NBA baller.

Suka Bongcic · Post #103 » by **Suka Bongcic** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:07 am

Sleepy51 wrote:Trade him to a bad team who will overvalue his physical tools, potential and highlights so that we can get a player who actually helps us win games.

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Yeah, because he didn't help us win any games in his rookie year? Or does that not count? Losing Malone hurt his game and his effectiveness. Jackson, while a great players coach, was out classed last season. Everytime Barnes number was called on the offensive end, Jackson called an iso or a post up once in awhile. I can't remember the last time I saw Barnes run off a pick or 2, get the ball wide open and shoot. He camped on the 3 PT line and waited for a drive and kick or got the ball in an iso. You obviously know what your talking about sleepy, I can't understand why you can't rationalize that the plays that are being called can have an effect on a players game. Now with Kerr in fold, hopefully Barnes can step it up. If not, he's out.

Post #104 » by **Sleepy51** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:20 am

Did you really mean to say rationalize? It is not a complimentary term. As a fan of the team, why would I want to rationalize bad play?

As noted above, he was 192nd on the league as a catch and shoot player. Running sets to get Barnes open shots is wasting other peoples hard work. All he has done well with any consistency is post up smaller players in isolation.

Barnes has gotten a TON of opportunity here under a variety of circumstances, in the post, on the wing, with starters and subs. He has proven to be Avery limited player who can only succeed within a very narrow role. That's not important for us with better, more diverse contributors ahead of him at any position he can credibly play.

He is still young and shiny enough that a bad team that doesn't have two better players at his viable positions may overvalue his hype. It does not serve our interest to wait for him to fail again. We should capitalize on what's left of his rookie mystique before the hype is gone and we are left with a low energy Pietrus clone without the D on a QO.

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Mylie10 · Post #105 » by **Mylie10** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:30 pm

Sucks for Barnes that for most of the season he was hovering around 38-40% from three...and then he went into a really bad 3 point shooting streak. That killed his numbers.

But after getting Blake he did make some more basketball plays.

Ultimately its on Barnes, not Jackson. Barnes had plenty of opportunity to turn things around and he didn't. I was pulling for him hard, but he didn't perform.

With Livingston running the second unit I think Barnes will do better, and I think we'll be running a style of play that will be more reactionary and less thinking (as one does in iso).

Post #106 » by **FNQ** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:53 pm

Black Falcon wrote:He's not as good as Drummond, cry more. He was a key component to our offense his rookie season with Malone.

wut?

The gymnastics some fans will do for their favorites.. its crazy. Barnes was mostly lost his rookie year, and built on that the next season to become mostly lost. He's a project player, always has been, but with hype.

whocurrz · Post #107 » by **whocurrz** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:51 pm

FireNellieQuick wrote:
Black Falcon wrote:He's not as good as Drummond, cry more. He was a key component to our offense his rookie season with Malone.

wut?

The gymnastics some fans will do for their favorites.. its crazy. Barnes was mostly lost his rookie year, and built on that the next season to become mostly lost. He's a project player, always has been, but with hype.

While I agree that his statement is ludicrous I thought when given the green light Barnes was pretty solid his rookie season. I remember most of his high scoring games were when Curry and Klay were both completely off and Barnes would either get the green light to shoot more or take it upon himself. Never great efficiency that screamed star but pretty good for a rookie with a sporadic touches. This, combined with his playoffs (when he was first really relied on to be a consistent contributor) made it seem like he could be a solid contributor given more opportunity.

However when he was asked to play his normal role I don't think he did nearly enough and seemed lost like you said. Probably because he was a ball dominant scorer his whole career up to that point. With the passers we have on our team and the attention Curry and Klay attracted he should have been a much more active off ball cutter rather than just standing in the corner or clearing space and shooting catch and shoot opportunities. These shortcomings are consistent with his disappearing acts and lack or great BBIQ or motor. He seemed content to blend in and just not mess up. However when called upon and given the green light he definitely showed solid potential and seemed like he just needed a bit of a bigger role to get in a rhythm as Barnes is clearly a player dependent on finding a rhythm and confidence. I think if Kerr realizes this and puts him in advantageous situations for finding that rhythm on his first touches rather than ISOs maybe he can find his rhythm and be more like the player we saw in the 2013 playoffs. Kerr seems astute enough about the things that work and don't in basketball to at least try this.

Jester_ · Post #108 » by **Jester_** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:51 pm

Black Falcon wrote:
Sleepy51 wrote:Trade him to a bad team who will overvalue his physical tools, potential and highlights so that we can get a player who actually helps us win games.

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Yeah, because he didn't help us win any games in his rookie year? Or does that not count? Losing Malone hurt his game and his effectiveness. Jackson, while a great players coach, was out classed last season. Everytime Barnes number was called on the offensive end, Jackson called an iso or a post up once in awhile. I can't remember the last time I saw Barnes run off a pick or 2, get the ball wide open and shoot. He camped on the 3 PT line and waited for a drive and kick or got the ball in an iso. You obviously know what your talking about sleepy, I can't understand why you can't rationalize that the plays that are being called can have an effect on a players game. Now with Kerr in fold, hopefully Barnes can step it up. If not, he's out.

LOL, hey it's you

Mylie10 · Post #109 » by **Mylie10** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:47 pm

Livingston is gonna set him up with some easy looks....he better convert them or he'll be fully lambasted!

whocurrz · Post #110 » by **whocurrz** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:25 am

Mylie10 wrote:Livingston is gonna set him up with some easy looks....he better convert them or he'll be fully lambasted!

I'm actually a bit worried about this. Livingston only averaged 4.5 assists per 36 minutes last year and his career high is 6.7 back in his rookie year. He's better than Toney Douglas but I'm not so sure he's the backup PG many think he'll be. His defense should allow our backcourt to not be a sieve while allowing Curry to play more offball but I still wish we had got Stuckey.

Mylie10 · Post #111 » by **Mylie10** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:42 am

Stuckey's a train wreck. Livingston makes basketball plays.

whocurrz · Post #112 » by **whocurrz** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:08 pm

Mylie10 wrote:Stuckey's a train wreck. Livingston makes basketball plays.

He was a train wreck last year but if you're a slasher whose surrounding lineup offers the spacing that Jennings, Smoove, Monroe and Drummond offer I don't think it's going to be pretty. I think he could thrive with Curry and Klay on the floor and his minimum contract would have given us more cap space flexibility. Either way I think Livingston should be an improvement.