Barnes takes a shot at Jackson?

warriortone · Post #81 » by **warriortone** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:21 pm

Sleepy I honestly do defer to your opinion on most things, but I am not seeing what you are in regards to Barnes. I would like to see at least half a season in the new system before he is written off. To me, he is a guy who will play better when he is feeling confident. It must have been strange to go from playoff starter to limited bench role meanwhile watching a teammate like Klay wet the bed for stretches/games but was consistently allowed to play through it.

Golden Angel · Post #82 » by **Golden Angel** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:35 pm

DynastySS wrote:There are some insane levels of delusion in this thread.

Yeah, created by people who can't sleep at night because they hate Barnes that much. lol

Golden Angel · Post #83 » by **Golden Angel** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:37 pm

Sleepy51 wrote:Barnes is a low IQ lollygagger who stares at the rim and is really only good at posting up midgets.

I died

Post #84 » by **Sleepy51** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:16 pm

warriortone wrote:Sleepy I honestly do defer to your opinion on most things, but I am not seeing what you are in regards to Barnes. I would like to see at least half a season in the new system before he is written off. To me, he is a guy who will play better when he is feeling confident. It must have been strange to go from playoff starter to limited bench role meanwhile watching a teammate like Klay wet the bed for stretches/games but was consistently allowed to play through it.

He had all the same problems during his rookie regular season and that stunk while getting starter run during Iggy's injury this year as well. Blaming his failing on circumstance is exactly what is so very Dunleavy about the whole situation. On top of that it takes a tremendous lack of self awareness for him to even in part, blame "Isolation" ball for his struggles when his only success in the last two years came when we iso'd him on smaller players.

turk3d · Post #85 » by **turk3d** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:35 pm

What you say doesn't make sense to a certain degree Sleepy. Barnes has never been a winer (ala numbnuts Dunleavy). He just has responded to questions as well as comments made by others. I haven't heard him "complain" about how he was used, just admitted to it possibly being a factor and certainly that he had a "bad" year.

What I get from that is that he intends to try and improve on things and with regards to the way he was used, I see what he's said as more of an endorsement for the new coach (Kerr) who has already said that he's going to be instituting a new offense. Attitude wise, the kid is ok and is no dummy (ala perhaps AR).

Jester_ · Post #86 » by **Jester_** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:16 pm

Barnes could be such a great asset for us if he wasn't an (basketball) idiot.

Post #87 » by **FNQ** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:26 pm

cladden wrote:
FireNellieQuick wrote:
nate2005dubs wrote:How is he an iso player? Also, most players, especially young nba players have little motor away from the ball and don't cut or move well unless they're put in a system (ALA Pop) where they are encouraged to move. Also, I don't think he has no basketball IQ: if you look at many game changing plays late in the game, when he was with the starters, he often made great basketball plays, even under pressure (ex: passing up on corner three for Klay go ahead 3 with a dozen seconds left vs the Blazers).

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He plays like Monta did - he gets the ball, pauses, assesses the situation. Ruins any ball movement done previous to him getting the ball. He needs shots created for him - easy ones - or else he's purely an isolation scorer. He's a slightly better Wes Johnson right now.. a Gerald Henderson, a Gerald Green, a guy who's impact is entirely based on how much the team is trying to get him involved. Why waste time with guys like that when there are much better players who impact the game without needing to be coddled?

I don't think I entirely agree on this. I think a lot of the time he actually swings the ball around very quickly. I think that's part of his problem. He's not really a ball stopper but he finds himself pretty much unable to make much of an offensive contribution for long periods at a time. He definitely needs to make more decisive moves if he's going to do something. I for one think we'll see a pretty decent year from him with improved efficiency and about 14 points per game. I'd like to see him get to and finish at the basket like he did in his rookie year again as well.

Thats fair enough: I'll amend it to read that when he decides he's going to score, his approach is Monta-like. When it isn't, he does get rid of the ball fairly quickly

warriortone · Post #88 » by **warriortone** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:56 pm

Sleepy51 wrote:He had all the same problems during his rookie regular season and that stunk while getting starter run during Iggy's injury this year as well. Blaming his failing on circumstance is exactly what is so very Dunleavy about the whole situation. On top of that it takes a tremendous lack of self awareness for him to even in part, blame "Isolation" ball for his struggles when his only success in the last two years came when we iso'd him on smaller players.

Even though I go to my fair share of games and watch most of the rest on TV, I haven't spent any considerable time really analyzing his game specifically. He does seem to have all the physical tools to be successful, so maybe his relative lack of production is due more to the mental component.

uteptwostep · Post #89 » by **uteptwostep** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:36 pm

My perception is that Barnes does not read and react to basketball plays in real time at the rate needed to play at a high level in the NBA. I am skeptical as to whether or not he'll improve much more in that area, as I think there is a talent/ability that is just not there and is difficult for him to develop. He seems very bright and no doubt understands intellectually what should be done, but that's not the same as seeing it instantly in the flow of the game and reacting correctly.

To me his ceiling is a solid spot up shooter able to occasionally score in isolation against a mismatch and play decent one-on-one defense. I expect that a motion offense will not help him, since that requires constant reads and quick fluid reactions. I don't think he'll ever be a particularly good passer or help/team defender.

RoyalMajesty · Post #90 » by **RoyalMajesty** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:50 pm

uteptwostep wrote:My perception is that Barnes does not read and react to basketball plays in real time at the rate needed to play at a high level in the NBA. I am skeptical as to whether or not he'll improve much more in that area, as I think there is a talent/ability that is just not there and is difficult for him to develop. He seems very bright and no doubt understands intellectually what should be done, but that's not the same as seeing it instantly in the flow of the game and reacting correctly.

To me his ceiling is a solid spot up shooter able to occasionally score in isolation against a mismatch and play decent one-on-one defense. I expect that a motion offense will not help him, since that requires constant reads and quick fluid reactions. I don't think he'll ever be a particularly good passer or help/team defender.

Well, he never had a feel for the game and this is something that he needs to improve this offseason. That, his shooting, and some basketball moves like a stepback jumper, a spin around, bank shot, fadeaways, and most importantly, a motor! There was plenty of times last season where he didn't leak out on the fast break. There's no system or coaching or plays to blame and prevents you from leaking out for some easy buckets.

DynastySS · Post #91 » by **DynastySS** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:42 pm

I ask it all the time and have not received an honest answer.

Barnes supporters - what is that you have seen in his college or NBA game that says he will be a decent player one day?

and1GS · Post #92 » by **and1GS** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:14 am

DynastySS wrote:I ask it all the time and have not received an honest answer.

Barnes supporters - what is that you have seen in his college or NBA game that says he will be a decent player one day?

Not exactly a supporter, but more of a realist. He had an NBA ready game and had poise at NC. Good looking shooting mechanics, great athleticism and nice reliable range on his jumper. Very strong catch and shoot guy at NC, but before NC he played around the basket a lot so his first step and ability to create his own shot on the perimeter were both poor.

IMO watching Barnes out there he strikes me as a guy who in his rookie year tried to go 100 MPH, now he's going 10 MPH and spending too long thinking about what he's doing. Afraid to make mistakes and afraid to take risks, results in him looking more robot than a fluid professional basketballer.

I think the 'he'll never be decent' stuff is a bit much. He's already decent - his rookie year he was above decent. Unfortunately for him, decent = 9/10th man on a good team.

Suka Bongcic · Post #93 » by **Suka Bongcic** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:21 am

Good to see that there are some fans aren't so close minded. If you don't think mark Jackson used him incorrectly last year, you really don't understand basketball. He definitely had a disappointing season and a lot of that is on him. And some of it is on Jackson. I spoke with Brevin Knight yesterday and we talked about how poorly mj used Barnes last year and how simplistic Jackson's offense was last year. He said mj is strictly a players coach and far behind the curve in X's and O's. he doesn't suck. He's not as good as Drummond, cry more. He was a key component to our offense his rookie season with Malone. Malone leaves, warriors sign iggy. Barnes goes to the bench. Jackson's play calling goes in the toilet without Malone. True story. That's why he's gone.

turk3d · Post #94 » by **turk3d** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:16 am

Black Falcon wrote:Good to see that there are some fans aren't so close minded. If you don't think mark Jackson used him incorrectly last year, you really don't understand basketball. He definitely had a disappointing season and a lot of that is on him. And some of it is on Jackson. I spoke with Brevin Knight yesterday and we talked about how poorly mj used Barnes last year and how simplistic Jackson's offense was last year. He said mj is strictly a players coach and far behind the curve in X's and O's. he doesn't suck. He's not as good as Drummond, cry more. He was a key component to our offense his rookie season with Malone. Malone leaves, warriors sign iggy. Barnes goes to the bench. Jackson's play calling goes in the toilet without Malone. True story. That's why he's gone.

+1. And BTW, how's Brevin doing these days?

Suka Bongcic · Post #95 » by **Suka Bongcic** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:23 am

turk3d wrote:
Black Falcon wrote:Good to see that there are some fans aren't so close minded. If you don't think mark Jackson used him incorrectly last year, you really don't understand basketball. He definitely had a disappointing season and a lot of that is on him. And some of it is on Jackson. I spoke with Brevin Knight yesterday and we talked about how poorly mj used Barnes last year and how simplistic Jackson's offense was last year. He said mj is strictly a players coach and far behind the curve in X's and O's. he doesn't suck. He's not as good as Drummond, cry more. He was a key component to our offense his rookie season with Malone. Malone leaves, warriors sign iggy. Barnes goes to the bench. Jackson's play calling goes in the toilet without Malone. True story. That's why he's gone.

+1. And BTW, how's Brevin doing these days?

He's a class act. He's a color commentator for the grizzlies. He rented a cabana at my place of work. I'm a cabana host. It wasn't super busy so I was able to talk hoops with him for a few hours. It was a blast. Tipped me $110 too

turk3d · Post #96 » by **turk3d** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:26 am

Black Falcon wrote:
turk3d wrote:
Black Falcon wrote:Good to see that there are some fans aren't so close minded. If you don't think mark Jackson used him incorrectly last year, you really don't understand basketball. He definitely had a disappointing season and a lot of that is on him. And some of it is on Jackson. I spoke with Brevin Knight yesterday and we talked about how poorly mj used Barnes last year and how simplistic Jackson's offense was last year. He said mj is strictly a players coach and far behind the curve in X's and O's. he doesn't suck. He's not as good as Drummond, cry more. He was a key component to our offense his rookie season with Malone. Malone leaves, warriors sign iggy. Barnes goes to the bench. Jackson's play calling goes in the toilet without Malone. True story. That's why he's gone.

+1. And BTW, how's Brevin doing these days?

He's a class act. He's a color commentator for the grizzlies. He rented a cabana at my place of work. I'm a cabana host. It wasn't super busy so I was able to talk hoops with him for a few hours. It was a blast. Tipped me $110 too

Wow.

He's a guy who I hoped would make it over to the Dubs one day.

Quazza · Post #97 » by **Quazza** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:26 am

someone leaked Jackson's play book

Mylie10 · Post #98 » by **Mylie10** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:20 pm

Sleepy51 wrote:
floppymoose wrote:I don't have a lot of hope left for Barnes, but what hope I have is because he does not appear overwhelmed by the athletes he faces I the nba. Instead he just seems overwhelmed by the game of basketball. He's playing and practicing a lot more now than he was in college, so there is still some chance that someone will click and he'll make progress.

I'd have a lot more hope for that if her were an instinctual effort/motor guy. Those guys have a shot of learning to impact the floor game on either end. But a one dimensional scorer who really doesn't know much about scoring the basketball? I've never seen that guy figure it out at the NBA level.

I kind of agree with both of you...I did see him play better team basketball towards the end of the year after we got Blake. It seemed like he was moving the ball quicker and cutting a bit more. Saw him making more basketball plays.

But also agree that he just doesn't seem to have basketball instincts. I don't think Jackson did him any favors by making him post up guys. I think after the playoffs Jackson took away that Barnes should ALWAYS post up smaller guys on the second unit. Whereas what a lot of us saw was that Barnes might benefit from playing a bit more power forward. A stretch four role.

I think Kerr sees Barnes in a system role of stretch four where Barnes doesn't have to stop and think about how he's going to score. Having him run plays and drag other fours out should help him from over thinking things. I also like how Barnes holds ground against bigger guys, than I do watching him chase guys on the perimeter.

We shall see.

Post #99 » by **Sleepy51** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:08 am

We have a backup stretch 4 already and we are shopping for a staring one. Draymond is a superior player as the stretch four and by default at the three as well because Barnes is so lousy on the wing. If Kerr starts dickin with Draymond's role to try to coddle Barnes into not sucking the he will fail with this roster. Barnes is a 3rd string talent on this team. But Would probably be a second string talent on a bad team. Trade him to a bad team who will overvalue his physical tools, potential and highlights so that we can get a player who actually helps us win games.

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Mylie10 · Post #100 » by **Mylie10** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:06 am

I think Kerr will mix and match the two based on matchup....meaning Draymond and Barnes.

I do agree however that Draymond is the better player...no argument there from me. There will be plenty of minutes for Draymond this season, I wouldn't worry about that.

If Kerr can get Barnes to grasp a solid role and improve on his shooting and finishing, then we can hope that his value as a trade chip will increase. So that could be a plus.

Let's judge him after the team puts a large part of the season under their belts. Unless of course a deal comes up that makes sense.