The Falcon King - The Harrison Barnes Thread

[Kuya]

He is our most polarizing player so this thread is to keep the discussion centralized and not spread out over multiple threads.

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[Kuya]

In the short sample size so far, he is showing signs of improvement and chemistry with the Splash Bros.

He may earn himself a contract similar to Draymonds.

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[Coxy]

Sticky this thread. Should get mighty entertaining.

When life gets a little stressful, I'll just stop by here for a chuckle.

[Warriorfan]

As a great athlete 4th option I think Barnes as a starter who ends up playing 20 minutes a game will work as long as they win and Iggy checks his ego until David Lee is backed and hopefully benched to pad stats against backups

[Warriors Analyst]

In the short sample size so far, he is showing signs of improvement and chemistry with the Splash Bros.

He may earn himself a contract similar to Draymonds.

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I would hope that playing with the starting lineup that Barnes shows even marginal signs of improvement. He's not clearing a very high bar if all you ask of him is to not piss the bed when he plays with the starters.

Barnes has looked a little bit more comfortable in his skin and better defending on ball, but he still ball-stops horribly and doesn't make very quick decisions. It was nice to see him use his pump-fakes more often, but I'd love to see Barnes commit to shooting 4-6 threes a game. If Barnes were shooting 3-6 threes on 37+ %, his driving lanes would far more open and his pump fakes would get him a lot more clean looks at the hoop. It has been encouraging to see Kerr give minutes to small-ball lineups with Barnes at 4 and Draymond at 5. Barnes at 4 means his problems guarding pick and rolls on the perimeter and dribbling the ball are minimized.

I have long been an advocate of Barnes not starting in any circumstances and I find myself pretty disturbed that Kerr has been sticking with it, even with Livingston coming back. I realize Livingston is still finding his sea legs and hasn't been playing big minutes, but if Kerr sticks to Barnes starting, the bench is gonna have a lot of problems with Livingston and Igoudala both sharing minutes. Beyond the fact that Barnes hasn't earned his starting minutes, this is the thing that disturbs me most so far as the season begins.

Igoudala has looked great in his role off of the bench. He passes well, he defends brilliantly, and has been a fantastic glue guy. The issue is that Igoudala is no longer a high volume shot taker and as such, most defenders are aware of the fact that Igoudala isn't a huge threat from the three point line, especially if he isn't getting open shot after open shot with the starting lineup. If Igoudala is regulated to playing super-sub glue guy that distributes the ball, does this not directly conflict with Livingston's role on the team? I am a big fan of Livingston, but one thing that has to be accounted for with his minutes is that the guy does not shot threes or really shoot outside of the painted area. Livingston is completely ineffective off-ball because his man can sag off of him, mucking up the Warriors' spacing, and if Igoudala is handling the ball with the second, Livingston is gonna be a liability on the court in these units.

All of this brings me back to Barnes starting. The lineups with Curry/Klay/Igoudala/Lee/Bogut crushed all comers last year, there never was any point in breaking up this lineup. The Warriors starting lineup is hugely bolstered by playing Igoudala as the secondary-ball handler and letting him roam on defense, just as the bench would benefit much more from Livingston playing as the Warriors' main-ball handler. Because of the way the offense gets open looks and off-ball movement, I'm not terribly worried about the Warriors' bench scoring assuming Barnes is moved back to the bench in favor of Igoudala, but if it really becomes an issue, a bench lineup of Livingston/Barbosa/Barnes/Lee/Ezeli is a strong lineup, although I'd prefer bench mob lineups not become a thing again this year.

My hope is the Warriors move Barnes out of the starting lineup once Livingston comes back to full health and we see heavy doses and rotations of lineups like

Curry/Thompson/Igoudala/Lee/Bogut
Curry/Thompson/Igoudala/Green/Lee
Curry/Thompson/Livingston/Green/Lee
Curry/Thompson/Livingston/Green/Festus
Curry/Thompson/Livingston/Barnes/Festus
Livingston/Thompson/Rush/Barnes/Festus
Livingston/Barbosa/Rush/Barnes/Festus
Livingston/Barbosa/Rush/Green/Festus
Livingston/Barbosa/Rush/Green/Lee
Livingston/Thompson/Rush/Green/Lee
Curry/Thompson/Igoudala/Green/Lee
Curry/Thompson/Igoudala/Lee/Bogut

[DynastySS]

As long we can keep his minutes low when DLee returns, and we have our best players on the floor at the end of the game, I don't really care who starts. Barnes has been playing a bit more than I am comfortable with, but that 28 mpg should come down over the year. Unless of course he blows up somehow.

That said, Kerr has clearly found his closing unit and has gone to them three games in a row with good success. Curious to see how that plays out with DLee, but so far so good.

[KevinMcreynolds]

In the short sample size so far, he is showing signs of improvement and chemistry with the Splash Bros.

He may earn himself a contract similar to Draymonds.

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I'm not seeing it. If he looks better it's probably just the fact that we don't have Jackson posting him up anymore.

[Sleepy51]

In the short sample size so far, he is showing signs of improvement and chemistry with the Splash Bros.

He may earn himself a contract similar to Draymonds.

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I'm not seeing it. If he looks better it's probably just the fact that we don't have Jackson posting him up anymore.

His rebounding effort in the Laker game was a leap. He found a way to contribute when he wasn't scoring and that was something that we had not seen heretofor. There may be some lights going on. I still have serious concerns about his ceiling, IQ and reaction to adversity, but in this very small sample he has had compliment worthy moments. There are still plenty of the lackadasical apathetic plays that make we want to kick him in his snatch, but credit where credit due for the rebounding effort.

[CCComboBreaker]

The best players should play, and Barnes proved that he's been the best 3 of the bunch for the last couple of years. He's earned the starting spot and should keep it.

[FNQ]

Why doesn't he close games? It seems HCs around here just have these big crushes on Iguodala..

[DynastySS]

Why doesn't he close games? It seems HCs around here just have these big crushes on Iguodala..

What is also confusing is that Iggy has been playing more minutes than Barnes. Iggy played about 6 more minutes last night than Barnes, and they all came when the game mattered most. It is very frustrating that our head coach refuses to play the better play more, or play him in the important situations.

[Onus]

I don't get how Barnes still has sooo many fans. His HS hype was out of control.

He couldn't even get by Thomas Robinson last night.

[JimmyTD3]

Barnes is a fairly solid role player at this point, no more, no less. 11/5/1 on decent percentages and a decent 3 point shot in 25MPG type guy.

I don't see what the huge debate on him is.

[InWestWeTrust]

As long as Andre and Green keep getting more minutes than him

I dont care or have anything to say

[CCComboBreaker]

Green is getting the minutes he's getting due to the absence of Lee. Don't expect Green to have more minutes than any of the starters and he doesn't deserve any.

If anything the minutes argument conceded my point. Icky plays more minutes yet his averages and plus-minus is terrible compared to Barnes. That speaks for itself, and no amount of nit-picking will change that. Steve Kerr can sub Icky in any line-up or specialist package he wants, the type of player Icky is will never change. A player who's skill-set is best utilized off the bench. Moral victories be damned.

Barnes is playing better, and he's the starter, bottom line. And that's really all that matters, because that's the very thing Barnes would supposedly never be, yet here he is, starting over players he was supposedly never going to start over.

[510TWSS]

My dude.

Every Game Thread is a Harrison Barnes Thread.

[ChuckDurn]

2013-14 Real +/- (via ESPN)

Andre Iguodala: + 6.63, ranked 3rd in the league (all players), after Lebron and CP3
Harrison Barnes: -2.88, ranked 338th in the league (they only ranked 437 players overall)

Yeah, I'll tell you, Iguodala's plus/minus is terrible, compared to Barnes'......

This is golf, where negative is better, right?

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_ ... 9/sort/RPM

[DynastySS]

2013-14 Real +/- (via ESPN)

Andre Iguodala: + 6.63, ranked 3rd in the league (all players), after Lebron and CP3
Harrison Barnes: -2.88, ranked 338th in the league (they only ranked 437 players overall)

Yeah, I'll tell you, Iguodala's plus/minus is terrible, compared to Barnes'......

This is golf, where negative is better, right?

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_ ... 9/sort/RPM

To be fair, those are last year's numbers. This year it is:

Iguodala: (+25, +22, -7) Average +13.3/game
Barnes: (+12, +23, +10) Average +15/game

As you can see, the difference is pretty staggering. One is clearly running away from the other.

On a more serious note, extrapolating stats after three games is mind-bogglingly stupid. Stupid enough that I would hope the person does not vote in the upcoming elections.

That is why when I see people using PPG averages after three games as some sort of de-facto evidence, I can't help but question their intelligence. Great example of that is is Klay. Will he lead the league in scoring? Probably not.

Or will Damian Lillard average 13 PPG on 23% shooting? Probably not. Yet I am sure there is someone stupid enough out there to look at this three game averages and wonder if he should be benched.

Let them play for a bit and the true numbers will emerge. Sample size, boys.

[KevinMcreynolds]

are people really saying they rather have Barnes out there than Iguodala?

[Rabsho]

In the short sample size so far, he is showing signs of improvement and chemistry with the Splash Bros.

He may earn himself a contract similar to Draymonds.

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I hope you're joking. He's not half the player Draymond is. High school hype will only get him so far. If you listened to Kerr's postgame interviews he's all about Green. He's finally seeing what us Warriors fans have been seeing over the last year. Draymond is the personification of hustle. Iggy or Green at SF is our ideal starting lineup. Barnes needs to be relegated to 8th or 9th guy off the bench.