The Falcon King - The Harrison Barnes Thread

radtech · Post #1701 » by **radtech** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:35 am

The Dubs resigned the right player in Green who ended the 2015 finals with a triple double. Hes a playmaker who makes players better by accepting and demanding a bigger role on the team. HB is the finisher who stands there and waits for others to create for him, sure he runs the floor really well but at 23 years old, he should. The Dubs have HBs replacement in the Finals MVP and possibly rookie Looney. HB is easily the most replaceable of the starting unit. Let HB hit free agency and get a dose of reality, his career stats dont scream out he should be a 16 million a year player.

old rem · Post #1702 » by **old rem** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:50 am

Johnny Bball wrote:Harrison Barnes is one smart kid for going back at his agent for the commission percentage right now. Love everything about this kid.

As for the salary, I'm not sure why they wouldn't max him out right now if that's what he wanted given that he will just bolt next year or they will be paying even more. But someone will throw a big offer at him considering the league wide lack of depth at SF.

geez...$16 + million IS a HUGE offer.. considering he put up just 10 ppg. until quite recent.. the offer Barnes (allegedly) rejected would have been the MOST GSW ever paid ANY player Only if he makes some real IMPACT this year will any team be offering $16 mill. Barnes has played long enough that nobody assumes he's gonna get a lot better. if he wants Big money.. he has to PROVE he is worth big money.

HiRez · Post #1703 » by **HiRez** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:45 am

What troubles me a bit is we have two pretty inconsistent starters in Klay and HB (one of whom we just gave a massive contract to and the other we appear to be heading the same way). That can be a backbreaker at a critical time. Steph is consistent as hell and so is Green. Bogut, you pretty much know what you're getting night in and night out. When Klay and Harrison are struggling, the spacing which is key to our offense collapses and things get ugly.

So my question is would we be better off trading Barnes' athleticism for someone who maybe has a lower ceiling, but can knock down a variety of shots consistently? Or has other assets such as solid defense (Barnes tries hard, but I've never been very impressed with his D), or better handles for getting into the lane?

azwfan · Post #1704 » by **azwfan** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:33 am

HiRez wrote:What troubles me a bit is we have two pretty inconsistent starters in Klay and HB (one of whom we just gave a massive contract to and the other we appear to be heading the same way). That can be a backbreaker at a critical time. Steph is consistent as hell and so is Green. Bogut, you pretty much know what you're getting night in and night out. When Klay and Harrison are struggling, the spacing which is key to our offense collapses and things get ugly.

So my question is would we be better off trading Barnes' athleticism for someone who maybe has a lower ceiling, but can knock down a variety of shots consistently? Or has other assets such as solid defense (Barnes tries hard, but I've never been very impressed with his D), or better handles for getting into the lane?

I agree, but i feel like Klay improved his consistency this year. If he can continue to make improvement with his consistency, we're fine there.

I see no reason why Barnes wont improve as well. Only issue with Barnes is HOW much improvement can be expected. I see him making nominal improvements and hope for a leap - but i'm not sure i see a leap coming from him. OTOH, i didn't see a leap coming from Curry or Klay either so wth do i know.

Bayside · Post #1705 » by **Bayside** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:30 pm

Its been publicized forever his ambitions and brand development goals. His first real opportunity to make a few decisions, and they seem to reflect a picture that is unappealing.. I look forward to seeing what value we can get for him in a S&T. We locked up our core already, he is not worth the threads he has gotten over the years.. I did hope for him to grow here. I don't see that happening now with his posturing with his contract and agent. Think he is a product of years of preparing for this business. I am thankful we have some players that expose their character to the fans.Or it looks that way.. I Just don't view Barnes as that kind person.. More of a persona he presents because he think it will sell well. Poser

Mylie10 · Post #1706 » by **Mylie10** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:58 pm

Grantland weighs on in Barnes and whether or not he's worth the large money. Long article with plenty of video breakdown.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/harrison-barnes-2016-extension-free-agent/

Left*My*Heart · Post #1707 » by **Left*My*Heart** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:03 pm

Good article Mylie...

I know Barnes fits into his role on this team, I just wonder if the smart thing to do is let him play out this season and see what offers he gets next off season. I'm concerned about overpaying him and paying him to be a 4th wheel at that . I don't view his value right now as being equal to Green or Klay's and his overall value to the team in my mind considerable lower.

If he becomes a solid efficient weapon and is able to punish teams for slighting him on the defense end and becomes more than a guy who's weaknesses are hidden among the starters...maybe you match that huge offer he may get? Maybe you do the S&T and bring in another asset that is dependable, just not as flashy? At least waiting until next off season, you have the chance to see where his is headed and you don't have to give him money for what he might become. I think Myers should remove himself from the negotiations and have the biggest anti Barnes guy on the staff negotiate with him. I don't trust West and Myers when it comes to dealing with their favorite players.

I feel Barnes hamstrung this organization from doing some things via trades. Yes, things have worked out, but not necessarily because of Barnes, more like in spite of him. I now feel he might hamstring us cap wise, by getting overpaid hurting us in the future by paying a guy money that was given to him based off of what he could be and not his real worth. I can care less if the cap is going up, there is still going to be cap management involved.

I know this has been mentioned before, but Barnes is the same size as Faried and his pre-draft camp numbers are right in line as well. So his ability to play PF shouldn't be a surprise. Faried has his own set of limitations, but one thing Faried does is come to play and doesn't disappear for long stretches. Too bad Barnes doesn't have his desire, his heart or he would be looking at his big pay day.

likashing · Post #1708 » by **likashing** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:49 pm

It is funny some posters want HB to fail because he declined our offer. I would rather see HB blow up and become Butler or Kawhi Leonard, win the Finals MVP and force us to give him a 5-year max next summer, or get an offer elsewhere which we cannot match.

We are in a 2-year win-now window before Bogut and Iguodala's contract ends. If we can win another one this season, I don't care if HB is here after next summer.

Trade him? No, unless we get someone who can be the top 5-6th guy for our run in the next 2 seasons. You are even crazier if you want to trade HB for picks. You must have forgotten how hard it is to win a ring so you think you can still do it after removing your #5-6 guy.

azwfan · Post #1709 » by **azwfan** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:10 pm

likashing wrote:It is funny some posters want HB to fail because he declined our offer. I would rather see HB blow up and become Butler or Kawhi Leonard, win the Finals MVP and force us to give him a 5-year max next summer, or get an offer elsewhere which we cannot match.

We are in a 2-year win-now window before Bogut and Iguodala's contract ends. If we can win another one this season, I don't care if HB is here after next summer.

Trade him? No, unless we get someone who can be the top 5-6th guy for our run in the next 2 seasons. You are even crazier if you want to trade HB for picks. You must have forgotten how hard it is to win a ring so you think you can still do it after removing your #5-6 guy.

This is exactly how i feel. Not all posters fall into this category but i do get a kick out of the ones looking for draft picks. "Asset preservation and accumulation" gone wild. haha

SpreeS · Post #1710 » by **SpreeS** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:51 pm

I love him, he is my favorite pl on this team, but .....Barnes didnt acept 16mil/y.... How much he wants? 18 mil? 20mil?

How much cost potencial these days? He is current Jeff Green with potencial to grow to team opt2. Only question is what team opt2... GSW? SAN? or CHA? DET? I know exactly that he cant be opt2 on contender. We have players like Leonard, Green, Butler, they made leap every year, but Barnes is stable with 10 pts and 5 reb. So we must pay him for potencial which show up probably only on lottery teams. Yes, he is the most atletic pl on GSW, but he is the worst defender (Green, Iggy, Klay all better). He can defend PF and perfect for def switches...Jeff Green also can do it, but he cost 30-40% less and you can have Joe Johnson on the bench for some amount money. Do we need Barnes potencial at all for 16mil/y? Def rotation, atletic body and doubtful potencial without won the campionchip, dont cost 16-20m/y. Horford cost 20 mil, not Barnes.

likashing · Post #1711 » by **likashing** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:58 pm

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-david-west-gave-back--11-million-to-join-the-spurs-195800859.html

First Hibbert, then West, and now George - PG13 isn't on the same page as Bird re: playing PF full-time.

It looks like the Pacers are getting dysfunctional... package HB for PG13... :lol:

Mylie10 · Post #1712 » by **Mylie10** » Thu Oct 1, 2015 3:19 am

Damn I wish we got West. I love ish like that. Nice article Lika

Left*My*Heart · Post #1713 » by **Left*My*Heart** » Thu Oct 1, 2015 2:41 pm

Mylie10 wrote:Damn I wish we got West. I love ish like that. Nice article Lika

I was hoping the same, but I feel differently now. West doesn't fit Kerr's offense, where post ups and midrange is his game, we want our 4 to stretch the floor with the 3. The other issue is defense and covering guys without switching for the most part, all over the floor. Then who does he play over? Does he replace Speights mid-range game? I actually think I like Barnes playing backup to Green, then West at the 4.

I love the swagger and toughness West brings to the table, unfortunately he isn't a good fit, unless he wants to play sparingly in certain situations. I don't think he would get rotation minutes and if he thought he would, I think the Warriors would have been high on his list. I think he wants to play and be a major contributer to a playoff team, which he has the chance with the Spurs.

A lot of people are locking in the Spurs in as the team to beat in the West(no pun intended). However, I love Pop, but he has his work cut out for him. He has LMA who lives on the left side of the paint and West, who neither fit the definition of a stretch 4. LMA was knocked for his passing in Portland, especially when double teamed. Ball movement is the key to the Spurs game, though they do situational post ups. I just don't know how they keep a team like the Warriors honest? I think Kerr goes rope a dope, like Pop did with Barnes and have LMA or even West try to beat us alone. I also don't think either player is the defender that Pop is used to having, especially LMA, who in my opinion goes soft now and then.

West would have been nice if he would be okay taking a reduced role.

Post #1714 » by **FNQ** » Thu Oct 1, 2015 3:38 pm

I thought the same thing when they first trashed Hibbert.. like damn, why publicly do that? Hibbert's been pretty good and hit a rough patch (for comparison's sake, when I saw Dallas do the same thing to Monta, I shrugged, because there's a lot floating out there about his rep). Ironically, now the Pacers have Monta. GL with that.

Forgot about it over time, but then Bird says to PG-13 that he's gotta play PF this year, without his consent? Yikes. Add another one to the list: great players make lousy executives.

Anyways, good for West to get out of that dysfunction and go on to a winner. Haven't heard a single negative thing about him his entire career, and he deserves to play for a team like that.

Left*My*Heart · Post #1715 » by **Left*My*Heart** » Thu Oct 1, 2015 4:01 pm

Bird needs to step back and look at things differently. He has pulled some pretty boneheaded moves and has added/created drama and dysfunction in a team that wasn't lacking in that from the first place. The Ego drives these guys to think they know it all and stick their noses places they have no business sticking it. Yeah, he has the power to be an ass, but it isn't the way to manage and it certainly isn't his job to tell players where they are playing. Leave that up to the coach, who is the one that you should be discussing this with instead of going directly to the player. It's almost as bad as having a meddlesome owner like Cuban used to be and can still be.

whocurrz · Post #1716 » by **whocurrz** » Thu Oct 1, 2015 4:36 pm

likashing wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-david-west-gave-back--11-million-to-join-the-spurs-195800859.html

First Hibbert, then West, and now George - PG13 isn't on the same page as Bird re: playing PF full-time.

It looks like the Pacers are getting dysfunctional... package HB for PG13...

I was thinking about that the other day. If the Pacers implode and have problems with George he could be one of the rare allstar/ near superstars that actually gets traded. KD is the pipe dream but Paul George replacing Barnes would be incredible too. Although hopefully he wouldn't be against playing Backup PF some spot minutes

Kuya · Post #1717 » by **Kuya** » Sun Nov 1, 2015 5:01 pm

Barnes has improved his ball handling and first step.

That dunk on Dwight though

Mylie10 · Post #1718 » by **Mylie10** » Sun Nov 1, 2015 5:40 pm

Barnes looks the same to me. He definitely has tried out some moves, but he's doing them with impatience......he rushing them. He needs to slow the eff down on some of that stuff.

He's a really good complimentary piece, but since he made his decision, I'm cooling on him. He needs to step up and prove he's worth big money.

californiadude · Post #1719 » by **californiadude** » Sun Nov 1, 2015 6:04 pm

Mylie10 wrote:Barnes looks the same to me. He definitely has tried out some moves, but he's doing them with impatience......he rushing them. He needs to slow the eff down on some of that stuff.

He's a really good complimentary piece, but since he made his decision, I'm cooling on him. He needs to step up and prove he's worth big money.

Yeah I agree, he still seems to struggle with where and when to pick his spots. I will say that he has seemed to up his basketball sophistication level that may seem like it's contradictory to the previous sentence, but the way he's attacking off the dribble and taking what the defense gives him is seems much improved in the small sample size we've seen.

likashing · Post #1720 » by **likashing** » Sun Nov 1, 2015 7:19 pm

Mylie10 wrote:Barnes looks the same to me. He definitely has tried out some moves, but he's doing them with impatience......he rushing them. He needs to slow the eff down on some of that stuff.

He's a really good complimentary piece, but since he made his decision, I'm cooling on him. He needs to step up and prove he's worth big money.

Agree 100%. Looks like he has improved a little bit, but he was rushing and seems to be doing his "stuff" outside of our offense.

He would do his dribble thing and had to pass back out if he got nothing. It worked eg when he dunked on Dwight, or when he shot the 18-footer and hit. But when he got nothing after his little dribbling exercise, it just felt so out of sync with our whole offense.

Hopefully Kerr will be able to fix it.

Bum or not a bum?