The Falcon King - The Harrison Barnes Thread

[FNQ]

Klay will still be impactful without the ball. Still a good defender, still commands a ton of defensive attention even when his shot isn't dropping. But seriously, the guy continues to take more undeserved crap than any other Warrior.. 16-3-2.5 and 1 bpg, on a .570 TS%, 40% from 3. And this is him when he's not playing well.

HB should likely miss more than a couple games, but while these games will give us a vague idea what its like, any conclusion drawn will be very sketchy at best. We'll continue to be elite, but the big question will be whether or not we can get a plug and play lesser player to fill in the starting role and continue to be effective on O/D.

[likashing]

Klay will still be impactful without the ball. Still a good defender, still commands a ton of defensive attention even when his shot isn't dropping. But seriously, the guy continues to take more undeserved crap than any other Warrior.. 16-3-2.5 and 1 bpg, on a .570 TS%, 40% from 3. And this is him when he's not playing well.

HB should likely miss more than a couple games, but while these games will give us a vague idea what its like, any conclusion drawn will be very sketchy at best. We'll continue to be elite, but the big question will be whether or not we can get a plug and play lesser player to fill in the starting role and continue to be effective on O/D.

I think this just shows how good Klay can be and "should" be as the top paid dude and how he played last season. This is the time of his career when he should be getting even better instead of "ya he is shooting 40% from 3 and .570 ts% still what are you whining about"...

I want to play the teams which we feel HB is needed e.g. the Grizzlies. Haven't looked at the schedule...

[wco81]

If Rush gets wide open looks like he was getting the other night, he should be able to knock down shots.

But you would expect to lose rebounding, finishing and athleticism.

Sure they can try to sign a skinny defender type, like Barton from Denver (not saying he'll be available, just pointing out a type) or Corey Brewer when younger.

[FNQ]

Klay will still be impactful without the ball. Still a good defender, still commands a ton of defensive attention even when his shot isn't dropping. But seriously, the guy continues to take more undeserved crap than any other Warrior.. 16-3-2.5 and 1 bpg, on a .570 TS%, 40% from 3. And this is him when he's not playing well.

HB should likely miss more than a couple games, but while these games will give us a vague idea what its like, any conclusion drawn will be very sketchy at best. We'll continue to be elite, but the big question will be whether or not we can get a plug and play lesser player to fill in the starting role and continue to be effective on O/D.

I think this just shows how good Klay can be and "should" be as the top paid dude and how he played last season. This is the time of his career when he should be getting even better instead of "ya he is shooting 40% from 3 and .570 ts% still what are you whining about"...

I want to play the teams which we feel HB is needed e.g. the Grizzlies. Haven't looked at the schedule...

Its not saying what are you whining about, it's basically showing what your expectations are. Those #s put him in the upper echelon of SGs right now. And we know he can do a lot better. And best of all, it has 0 impact on his biggest contributions to our team: his defense and his ability to keep driving lanes open.

For example, take a look at 82 games last year. See the same lineups with Klay and Barbosa switched, and you'll see a huge difference in our offensive efficiency. Klay is a key part of Draymond's game - imagine if quicker players darted into the lane to stop Draymond's driving instead of big men flashing in the 10ft range. If a guard darts in to stop Dray, the defense uses that time to recover. But because Klay's a lightning quick microwave type shooter, teams refuse to do that. Klay could put up these lackluster (for him) statlines all year and so long as he's perceived as that microwave threat, he's an impact player and worth every penny.

[FNQ]

If Rush gets wide open looks like he was getting the other night, he should be able to knock down shots.

But you would expect to lose rebounding, finishing and athleticism.

Sure they can try to sign a skinny defender type, like Barton from Denver (not saying he'll be available, just pointing out a type) or Corey Brewer when younger.

I was thinking Wesley Johnson, Marvin Williams, or Robert Covington. All obviously lesser talents, but all 3 come with a high discount price tag. I would have been all-aboard the Al-Farouq Aminu hype train too (and was on POR boards, angering some of their fans who hated the deal), but unfortunately he hit FA a year too early, and is going to return much higher value than his MLE-type contract actually is.

Side note: POR is trying so hard to be us. And though the record isn't there yet, they have some really nice pieces. Both Harkless and Aminu were guys who I thought could slide into the Barnes role. Unfortunately for them, they are missing a few key players (the playmaking F, the sharpshooting SG).. and they are starting their Barbosa (CJ McCollum)

[Mylie10]

I think Barnes misses the whole road trip.

[wco81]

I don't know about Covington but WJ and Williams were very high picks who haven't panned out.

Johnson can shoot but not sure he can rebound or finish big. Not sure Williams is that consistent at outside shooter.

Actually just looking at all 3 players, none of them have shot that well, though so far WJ and Williams are around 40% for 3PFG this year.

[Mylie10]

If Rush gets wide open looks like he was getting the other night, he should be able to knock down shots.

But you would expect to lose rebounding, finishing and athleticism.

Sure they can try to sign a skinny defender type, like Barton from Denver (not saying he'll be available, just pointing out a type) or Corey Brewer when younger.

I love Barton and he's on my list of go after guys. He has impact on the floor in many areas. He would be a perfect fit to our team on both sides of the ball.

Barton
Covington
Dwight Powell

[FNQ]

I don't know about Covington but WJ and Williams were very high picks who haven't panned out.

Johnson can shoot but not sure he can rebound or finish big. Not sure Williams is that consistent at outside shooter.

Actually just looking at all 3 players, none of them have shot that well, though so far WJ and Williams are around 40% for 3PFG this year.

Yes but I doubt their teams are peppering them with wide open corner 3s. The reason I chose those 3 was simply that they can hit open 3s and are all big enough to be 4s, in theory. Wes really doesnt play big enough to be a 4, but Marvin and Covington can. Both are better rebounders than Barnes, and I think they can both be capable defenders if asked. We'd be taking a hit on finishing though.

[Left*My*Heart]

Looney got some practice time today.

[likashing]

Klay will still be impactful without the ball. Still a good defender, still commands a ton of defensive attention even when his shot isn't dropping. But seriously, the guy continues to take more undeserved crap than any other Warrior.. 16-3-2.5 and 1 bpg, on a .570 TS%, 40% from 3. And this is him when he's not playing well.

HB should likely miss more than a couple games, but while these games will give us a vague idea what its like, any conclusion drawn will be very sketchy at best. We'll continue to be elite, but the big question will be whether or not we can get a plug and play lesser player to fill in the starting role and continue to be effective on O/D.

I think this just shows how good Klay can be and "should" be as the top paid dude and how he played last season. This is the time of his career when he should be getting even better instead of "ya he is shooting 40% from 3 and .570 ts% still what are you whining about"...

I want to play the teams which we feel HB is needed e.g. the Grizzlies. Haven't looked at the schedule...

Its not saying what are you whining about, it's basically showing what your expectations are. Those #s put him in the upper echelon of SGs right now. And we know he can do a lot better. And best of all, it has 0 impact on his biggest contributions to our team: his defense and his ability to keep driving lanes open.

For example, take a look at 82 games last year. See the same lineups with Klay and Barbosa switched, and you'll see a huge difference in our offensive efficiency. Klay is a key part of Draymond's game - imagine if quicker players darted into the lane to stop Draymond's driving instead of big men flashing in the 10ft range. If a guard darts in to stop Dray, the defense uses that time to recover. But because Klay's a lightning quick microwave type shooter, teams refuse to do that. Klay could put up these lackluster (for him) statlines all year and so long as he's perceived as that microwave threat, he's an impact player and worth every penny.

All true. However, at some point, opponents will see we shoot 60 ts% as a team, while Klay shoots 57 ts%. At some point they might leave Klay a tiny bit more open in order to not leave other guys wide open. Hopefully Klay can make them pay at that time. Basically opponents are now scared more of Klay's reputation instead of what he has actually done this season. Not that it is a bad thing.

On the other hand, I hope we have a way to jump start Klay so we don't see 13-14 Klay anymore in 2016.

[FNQ]

All true. However, at some point, opponents will see we shoot 60 ts% as a team, while Klay shoots 57 ts%. At some point they might leave Klay a tiny bit more open in order to not leave other guys wide open. Hopefully Klay can make them pay at that time. Basically opponents are now scared more of Klay's reputation instead of what he has actually done this season. Not that it is a bad thing.

On the other hand, I hope we have a way to jump start Klay so we don't see 13-14 Klay anymore in 2016.

They'd be foolish to leave Klay at all.. he's a total microwave, and getting him going would not be a good thing. But that's not quantifiable, so I went to NBA.com..

Klay when wide open (nearest defender 6+ feet away) - 51.8% from 3, which is .777 TS
Klay when "open" (nearest defender 4-6 feet away) - 37.2% from 3, which is .558 TS
Klay when guarded closely (2-4 feet) - 25% from 3, .375% TS
And just for weirdness' sake, Klay with someone in his jersey is hitting 60% from 3, .900 TS

Should be noted that in terms of which shot he takes most, its 'open' (20.6%), 'wide open' (13.9%), 'guarded closely' (7.7%), and then 'inside jersey' (2.4%)

So it's kinda pick your poison. Let Dray drive and see what happens there, or let Klay get wide open or open and hope that he maintains his .558 TS, and hope that your team can outscore that on our defense. While Dray is a great playmaker and we've seen a lot of memorable slams by Ezeli and Bogut, I tend to think that due to Klay getting the extra point bump from it being a 3, teams will not shy away from him at all. I wouldn't. The Kings played it perfectly - take away Klay, take away the alley, make Dray shoot floaters. He's not always going to make them

EDIT: cool stat I saw while I searched this: Curry is hitting 47% of 3s when someone is guarding him closely (2-4 feet). Let's all just bow our heads and realize how freaking amazing that is. He hits 39.2% when open and 47.5 when wide open. So give him some space, but not that much, and you'll screw with his head. And he'll only drop a .588 TS% on ya.

[and1GS]

All true. However, at some point, opponents will see we shoot 60 ts% as a team, while Klay shoots 57 ts%. At some point they might leave Klay a tiny bit more open in order to not leave other guys wide open. Hopefully Klay can make them pay at that time. Basically opponents are now scared more of Klay's reputation instead of what he has actually done this season. Not that it is a bad thing.

On the other hand, I hope we have a way to jump start Klay so we don't see 13-14 Klay anymore in 2016.

They'd be foolish to leave Klay at all.. he's a total microwave, and getting him going would not be a good thing. But that's not quantifiable, so I went to NBA.com..

Klay when wide open (nearest defender 6+ feet away) - 51.8% from 3, which is .777 TS
Klay when "open" (nearest defender 4-6 feet away) - 37.2% from 3, which is .558 TS
Klay when guarded closely (2-4 feet) - 25% from 3, .375% TS
And just for weirdness' sake, Klay with someone in his jersey is hitting 60% from 3, .900 TS

Should be noted that in terms of which shot he takes most, its 'open' (20.6%), 'wide open' (13.9%), 'guarded closely' (7.7%), and then 'inside jersey' (2.4%)

So it's kinda pick your poison. Let Dray drive and see what happens there, or let Klay get wide open or open and hope that he maintains his .558 TS, and hope that your team can outscore that on our defense. While Dray is a great playmaker and we've seen a lot of memorable slams by Ezeli and Bogut, I tend to think that due to Klay getting the extra point bump from it being a 3, teams will not shy away from him at all. I wouldn't. The Kings played it perfectly - take away Klay, take away the alley, make Dray shoot floaters. He's not always going to make them

EDIT: cool stat I saw while I searched this: Curry is hitting 47% of 3s when someone is guarding him closely (2-4 feet). Let's all just bow our heads and realize how freaking amazing that is. He hits 39.2% when open and 47.5 when wide open. So give him some space, but not that much, and you'll screw with his head. And he'll only drop a .588 TS% on ya.

Really interesting finds. Klay hasn't played great this year on offense, but when he's been out it's very clear that him just standing on the court is a huge help for what our spacing-based offense tries to do.

[likashing]

All true. However, at some point, opponents will see we shoot 60 ts% as a team, while Klay shoots 57 ts%. At some point they might leave Klay a tiny bit more open in order to not leave other guys wide open. Hopefully Klay can make them pay at that time. Basically opponents are now scared more of Klay's reputation instead of what he has actually done this season. Not that it is a bad thing.

On the other hand, I hope we have a way to jump start Klay so we don't see 13-14 Klay anymore in 2016.

They'd be foolish to leave Klay at all.. he's a total microwave, and getting him going would not be a good thing. But that's not quantifiable, so I went to NBA.com..

Klay when wide open (nearest defender 6+ feet away) - 51.8% from 3, which is .777 TS
Klay when "open" (nearest defender 4-6 feet away) - 37.2% from 3, which is .558 TS
Klay when guarded closely (2-4 feet) - 25% from 3, .375% TS
And just for weirdness' sake, Klay with someone in his jersey is hitting 60% from 3, .900 TS

Should be noted that in terms of which shot he takes most, its 'open' (20.6%), 'wide open' (13.9%), 'guarded closely' (7.7%), and then 'inside jersey' (2.4%)

So it's kinda pick your poison. Let Dray drive and see what happens there, or let Klay get wide open or open and hope that he maintains his .558 TS, and hope that your team can outscore that on our defense. While Dray is a great playmaker and we've seen a lot of memorable slams by Ezeli and Bogut, I tend to think that due to Klay getting the extra point bump from it being a 3, teams will not shy away from him at all. I wouldn't. The Kings played it perfectly - take away Klay, take away the alley, make Dray shoot floaters. He's not always going to make them

EDIT: cool stat I saw while I searched this: Curry is hitting 47% of 3s when someone is guarding him closely (2-4 feet). Let's all just bow our heads and realize how freaking amazing that is. He hits 39.2% when open and 47.5 when wide open. So give him some space, but not that much, and you'll screw with his head. And he'll only drop a .588 TS% on ya.

Good find.

I think teams are playing us based on our series against the Cavs - take away Klay and they can (might) stay in the game. Draymond didn't do that great with his floaters when he drove but with no one to kick the ball to.

This season, Draymond has really punished teams with his play making off his drives either throwing lobs to Ezeli/Bogut or making other plays. That is why we are 18-0 now.

[Twinkie defense]

Klay's shot has been off - result of his bad back and Steph taking more of the available shots? - but he still has been doing his thing, defending the best opposing backcourt players.

Unlike Klay, Barnes will be a free agent this summer, so it makes sense to use his absence to evaluate the team and various lineups without him. It's possible that at, say, $20 mil per Barnes is a luxury.


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[michaelm]

Klay's shot has been off - result of his bad back and Steph taking more of the available shots? - but he still has been doing his thing, defending the best opposing backcourt players.

Unlike Klay, Barnes will be a free agent this summer, so it makes sense to use his absence to evaluate the team and various lineups without him. It's possible that at, say, $20 mil per Barnes is a luxury.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Barnes completes this team. One of his often overlooked qualities crucial to him being able to play PF on the small ball squad and mentioned by someone else recently is his strength.

I don't have a problem paying him per se, particularly with Lacob's money, but I think it is problematic for the team ethos as has been said if he ends up on more money than Dray and Klay.

[wco81]

Tonight, the Warriors didn't play the small lineup as much down the stretch because HB was out.

It would have been a tough matchup because the Jazz have a big and talented front court. Favors had a monster game.

But they really couldn't run the small lineup and instead, Bogut and Ezeli were getting in foul trouble.

[East Bay Sports]

Tonight, the Warriors didn't play the small lineup as much down the stretch because HB was out.

It would have been a tough matchup because the Jazz have a big and talented front court. Favors had a monster game.

But they really couldn't run the small lineup and instead, Bogut and Ezeli were getting in foul trouble.

I still feel like Steph-Klay-Livingston-Dala-Dray would have wreaked havoc if the Jazz tried to keep Favors-Gobert in. I mean, when you are trotting out Speights + true Center as a front court why not try that lineup? It was sure to work better than that. I think it is foolish to just assume we can't go small without Barnes instead of trying it out instead.

[DynastySS]

Hope Barnes gets healthy soon, but we lucked out losing our worst starter. Easily the most replaceable.

[FNQ]

I dont think its that dire (the injury + the close game in Utah).

If it were a playoff game, Iguodala starts, the rotation tightens up a bit.