American Hustle - The Draymond Green Thread

[jason bourne]

Here's the deal....what Dray is worth to GSW may not be at all what he's worth to Team X. GSW has.. now or soon....MANY contracts that are in the $10-15 mill zone..or more. GSW in the past.. Did CRAP deals to DUMP a productive guy paid $10 mill. If we pay Drat0y excess... that limits us in paying a full roster team. OTHER..teams may like him.. but WHO... in reality.. is gonna risk an overpay for a 6-7 PF? In the NBA.. the "jack of all trades" is NOT who gets fat $. If Dray was 2" taller..was getting 15 ppg.. THEN.. he gets bigger bids.

He is a perfect fit HERE. For a guy of his skills and tools.. GSW will pay well.. but GSW has to deal with all that cap stuff.
If they pay too high.. that limits other things.

The 900-lb gorilla in the room is David Lee's contract. If the Ws still had their amnesty, would you use it now?

I would add Iguodala's contract but he's one of the key defensive players.

well lee's contract won't affect dray getting his contract for next reason right? Lee expires after next season and even with the amnesty warriors could just let him expire. Maybe use it on igoudala sometime next season if he looks like he lost a step.

It shouldn't, but it will affect the cap and the Ws will probably be over the lux tax apron. That means paying a lux tax, no S&T and other limitations.

[migya]

Dray is a totally unique player...he gets every ounce out of his 6'7" frame, and impacts the game on both ends of the floor. That said, Dray's size is also a weakness that can be, and has been, exploited. But not a lot of teams have the personnel to exploit his lack of size.

This is why I wish Kerr would use him a little more at SF.

e.g. Favors and Kanter have no problem over powering and reaching over Green. When Gobert is on the floor it's even more difficult. I would stick Green on Hayward and use Bogut, Lee and Speights on their bigs.


It's rare that teams have that kind of size, but when they do it's a killer. The Jazz are especially dangerous since they now have Exum at PG.

But those bigs of Utah can't defend Green on the other end. Defensively, you can double team and force Utah to pass well, which they don't, especially those bigs.

Green has been a success because he is versatile and a matchup problem. The team has won as much as it has almost as much due to Green as to Curry and Klay.

[migya]

Draymond....is a rather unique player. He did rack up some "numbers"...points,rebounds the last couple games, but he also has games where you get 8 pt, 8 boards...but 6 assists,3 blocks,3 staels and great D. At 6-7 he's very tweener and yet that probably limits his offense more than his D. He's got wingspan.....so he's in effect taller than 6-7 on D... but it does limit his offense. In a crowd he works it but can be stopped by big guys. He can make a 3...not reliably but if it's working it's good. He brings it up as a sort of point F...which gives Curry a break and lets Curry move for a shot. Dray is...in ways..a "system guy" ...and that may worry a few teams faced with who they throw money at. On the other hand he's sort of a guy you can creat a "system" around.

I sometimes wish we could ignore the money sideshow... but as a pretend GM....I also look ahead and the $ can't be ignored. I'd thought Dray would be somewhat under the radar.. but ...An effect of GSW's success is that everyone is looking at what.. besides the splash brothers..makes GSW so good. Well..people who watch games soon realize what a factor Dray is. Some are impressed enough to say he can get "max $"... I'd note that an undersize tweener scoring about 12 ppg... likely will not see a $15 mill deal...but $10-12 seems likely. Many teams simply can't bid for a RFA in the $10 mill + zone. Those with much cap... want the tall guy..the 20+ scorer..the ace PG... they may hope to find a Dray type..cheaper. Carroll has been great with ATL... is a sort of Dray type,and they got him cheap. Rather than pay big on Dray... teams will rethink how they draft.. how they develop the guys they have.

Green is having close to the best season a 10-12 point a game player ever has had. His effect is amazing and without him the team would be looking at a 50 win season most likely.

He will be offered the max by some team and the Warriors FO should match. When you look at it, 16 million a season won't be that much when the cap goes up to the expected 80 million or so. It'll be like 12 million now and that is a good deal for the effect Green has on the team.

The team goes into lux tax for one season but then has a much better setup for the next three or four seasons after that.

[Porzingis]

Dude needs to dedicate 1/2 of the all star break to work on his jumpshot.

[kaiballz]

i just hope he recovers well. these ankle sprains snowball quickly because they weaken the ankle drastically everytime, increasing the chance for a sprain next time.

[oaktownwarriors87]

Dray is a totally unique player...he gets every ounce out of his 6'7" frame, and impacts the game on both ends of the floor. That said, Dray's size is also a weakness that can be, and has been, exploited. But not a lot of teams have the personnel to exploit his lack of size.

This is why I wish Kerr would use him a little more at SF.

e.g. Favors and Kanter have no problem over powering and reaching over Green. When Gobert is on the floor it's even more difficult. I would stick Green on Hayward and use Bogut, Lee and Speights on their bigs.


It's rare that teams have that kind of size, but when they do it's a killer. The Jazz are especially dangerous since they now have Exum at PG.

But those bigs of Utah can't defend Green on the other end. Defensively, you can double team and force Utah to pass well, which they don't, especially those bigs.

Green has been a success because he is versatile and a matchup problem. The team has won as much as it has almost as much due to Green as to Curry and Klay.

That's not true at all. He has been terrible on both ends against their bigs. The one half-decent game he had was when we blew them out. He had 15 points and 1 rebound. He hit a couple of open jumpers, but he got owned by Favors/Kanter/Gobert.

[Onus]

Teams barely even guard Green. I would venture most teams would live with Green trying to beat them from anywhere.

Wish Barnes would set better screens so that he could set drag screens for Curry instead of Green and he could take wide open 3s. See if he can actually do something with it.

[Mylie10]

Teams barely even guard Green. I would venture most teams would live with Green trying to beat them from anywhere.

Wish Barnes would set better screens so that he could set drag screens for Curry instead of Green and he could take wide open 3s. See if he can actually do something with it.

I love that idea

[MightyReds2020]

I've been wrong on Green before, but I don't think he's a natural #3...I think he'll have problems against a variety of SF. I also have difficulty seeing how that front line give them "everything." Seems Detroit would be short on a perimeter game with those 3. Very crowded in the paint.

What "problems" will Green have when he's able to guard PFs and SGs equally well? Defending is really about 2 things - If you'll be able to measure up physically or if you'll be able to measure up skill-wise, and Draymond has both at the SF position. In fact, I'd say he's probably a better SF-defender than a PF-defender due to his combinations of size and quickness.

Offensively, both Green and Monroe are really good high post-passers, which is a way to minimize spacing issue without having good shooting from the guards. Plus, Green is a capable 3-point shooter himself and he doesn't typically operate from the post area. I'd argue his role on offense can be pretty similar to what he has been doing for the Warriors, but expanded since he'll have more opportunities to handle the rock (another plus for signing with Detroit, unfortunately).

In addition, Green provides versatility for them and they can "go small" with Green at the 4 and either Monroe or Drummond at the 5 for long stretches if need be. Outside of Warriors, Detroit definitely looks like a good options for him.

Green is mostly about hustle. He's not as quick laterally as Iggy or most small forwards. Watch his game. He can beat most PF to their spot, cutting off driving lanes, but not most SF. He's a good defender but the praise he gets here about being able to defend 1-5 is hyperbole. He's a smart team defender and has good hands, but to argue he can consistently provide high level man defense on 1-3--or at least the athletic 1-3 around the league--is simply not true. He's at his best defending less athletic 3s, or smaller/less aggressive 4s.

High post passing? I would not be paying Green for his high post passing game. Nor would I be paying him for his 3 pt shooting. Yeah, he's at 33% on the year, but it has been dropping quickly. He's an occasionally outside shooter, not a consistent one. His 43% overall shooting percentage is abysmal for a big man.

I don't know Monroe's or Drummond's game real well, but my impression of Monroe is that he is a midrange guy that is pretty soft. Drummond, more interior but strong. I just think with that front line, you're going to have problems scoring unless your 1-2 are strictly perimeter and elite.

I simply disagreed with your notion that Green's perimeter defending is overrated. He beats his man to their spot with his smart, not just with his quickness, which he also has plenty. If he has to play 3 full-time, he can also slim down 5 - 10 pounds to make himself quicker.

No point in arguing more about the fit in Detroit given you and I aren't necessary that familiar with their offensive sets. I was speaking purely from paper's standpoint.

[a8bil]

I simply disagreed with your notion that Green's perimeter defending is overrated. He beats his man to their spot with his smart, not just with his quickness, which he also has plenty. If he has to play 3 full-time, he can also slim down 5 - 10 pounds to make himself quicker.

No point in arguing more about the fit in Detroit given you and I aren't necessary that familiar with their offensive sets. I was speaking purely from paper's standpoint.

Well your response makes the point. IF Dray loses 5-10, he'll be quicker and able to more capably defend the more athletic 3s--I agree with this assertion, but if he does, he loses the bulk he needs to battle the bigger 4s. That's the difficulty of being a tweener...you're like a set of all season tires: not as good in the snow as a dedicated snow tire and not as good in the dry as a dedicate summer tire.

Don't get me wrong, I like Dray and see his ability to be an above avg. defender at at the 3 and 4, and his ability to help with 1, 2 and 5 as very valuable. In fact, I think too many teams undervalue versatile players like Dray, but some here need to separate the man from the myth. Dray the man is a tweener whose smarts, long arms and hustle allow him to defensively dominate some 3s and 4s (and some 2s for that matter), irritate others who physically outmatch him, and provide serviceable help on 1, 2 and 5 at times, but whose size leaves him vulnerable to quicker more athletic players, as well as stronger, taller players who use their size. Offensively, Dray is the beneficiary of being the 4th option on the floor, often not the focus of any defense.

Dray the myth is superman who prevents Westbrook from driving, KD from shooting and Jordan from rebounding, while scorching his counterpart offensively. Would love to have Dray the myth, but I don't know that Dray.

[The-Power]

Well your response makes the point. IF Dray loses 5-10, he'll be quicker and able to more capably defend the more athletic 3s--I agree with this assertion, but if he does, he loses the bulk he needs to battle the bigger 4s. That's the difficulty of being a tweener...

A tweener can't guard one position, Dray can guard two positions extremely well. The fact that he could improve on either position depending on which he chooses to focus on doesn't make him a tweener. It makes him versatile and I'd like to keep this versatility.

[NBAfan3024]

How's draymond ankle?

[Twinkie defense]

I love me some Draymond. He is intense, can be a hard-ass. He was yelling and waving his arms around at his teammates during the game against Philly yesterday. He is known to yell at his coaches. I think every winner needs someone like that - KG on the Celtics. Harbaugh on the Niners. I wonder how well Draymond's "act" will play when the team inevitably hits a down stretch though - that's when hard asses get especially cranky, and when people get tired of hard asses.

[Kuya]

The American Hustle? Something a beta mod would come up with. Should rename the thread to "The Ultimate Warrior - The Draymond Green Thread"

Sent from my SM-N910T using RealGM Forums mobile app

[The-Power]

I wonder how well Draymond's "act" will play when the team inevitably hits a down stretch though - that's when hard asses get especially cranky, and when people get tired of hard asses.

True, but Draymond seems to be not only well-respected but also much-loved by the team. I don't think it would be much of an issue, everyone should know his personality and how to deal with it - it's not like he's some kind of a prick.

[a8bil]

Well your response makes the point. IF Dray loses 5-10, he'll be quicker and able to more capably defend the more athletic 3s--I agree with this assertion, but if he does, he loses the bulk he needs to battle the bigger 4s. That's the difficulty of being a tweener...

A tweener can't guard one position, Dray can guard two positions extremely well. The fact that he could improve on either position depending on which he chooses to focus on doesn't make him a tweener. It makes him versatile and I'd like to keep this versatility.

I've never heard the word "tweener" used to describe someone who can't guard one position. New on on me.

[Bandito]

Anybody calling Dray a tweener is just focusing on his height and not his actual game. He's got all the requisite skills of a 3 or 4. Good size for a 3, "undersized" for a 4, but he plays much bigger than his size and very few 4's can get the better of him.

He's already proven himself being able to handle 3's so I don't know why anybody would question that. As far as having to cut weight, he's in the best shape of his life. Not as if he was bulking up preparing to be the starting 4 all offseason. He actually slimmed down already, and his athleticism improved tremendously.

I'd like to hear an example of a 3 who Draymond can't match up with.

[East Bay Sports]

Anybody calling Dray a tweener is just focusing on his height and not his actual game. He's got all the requisite skills of a 3 or 4. Good size for a 3, "undersized" for a 4, but he plays much bigger than his size and very few 4's can get the better of him.

He's already proven himself being able to handle 3's so I don't know why anybody would question that. As far as having to cut weight, he's in the best shape of his life. Not as if he was bulking up preparing to be the starting 4 all offseason. He actually slimmed down already, and his athleticism improved tremendously.

I'd like to hear an example of a 3 who Draymond can't match up with.

Durant, LeBron

that's about it

[Twinkie defense]

In talking about analytics, Jerry West said "they can't see what's inside the player." How true, and how fitting to Draymond.

[and1GS]

In talking about analytics, Jerry West said "they can't see what's inside the player." How true, and how fitting to Draymond.

That's an interesting way of looking at it and it's totally valid. Harkens back to Klay's continued improvement. No way analytics can foresee that, they just seem to explain player tendencies and who they are right now.