Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?)

[CDM_Stats]

I'd argue that if we do let Klay walk, we already have our 2 guard, and would need a point guard

[watch1958]

Would either side do this trade?

Thunder in
C James Wiseman
G Jordan Poole
G Mychal Mulder
F Jonathan Kuminga
+ maybe future FRP if necessary...because it's OKC...

Warriors in
PG Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
F/C Derrick Favors

Steph, Klay, SGA, Moody would be the most loaded backcourt of all time and make for some insane small ball lineups.

What a lovely idea that would have been.

[watch1958]

Would either side do this trade?

Thunder in
C James Wiseman
G Jordan Poole
G Mychal Mulder
F Jonathan Kuminga
+ maybe future FRP if necessary...because it's OKC...

Warriors in
PG Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
F/C Derrick Favors

Steph, Klay, SGA, Moody would be the most loaded backcourt of all time and make for some insane small ball lineups.

I doubt OKC would and don’t know if if works cap-wise but of course I do that trade if Lacob is down to pay for it. We’d be immediate favorites alongside Brooklyn. SGA is a 23 year old beast with good size, efficient scoring and playmaking ability. Favors is way better than Wiseman also.

OKC would never and we'd trip over ourselves to get it done... SGA isn't good. He's a star. And he'd fit in perfectly here.. he's got the wingspan to be a SF if we really needed it (6'11").

He'd start at SG until Klay was ready, and then when Klay was ready, you move Wiggins into the 6th man role that gets 24 min a night. Favors would be the backup C, great at that too, so the only issue is a depth one:

Curry (34) / SGA (14) / Nico
Klay (32) / Moody (12) / SGA (4) / Lee
SGA (16) / Wiggins (24) / Moody (8) / Lee
Draymond (32) / JTA (16) / Paschall
Favors (18) / Looney (18) / *Chriss (12)

That would be an amazing end-game for us. But again... OKC is not dealing SGA for this. Kuminga would have to blow up for this to be even a midseason consideration, and when I say blowup, I mean franchise-talent level blowing up

Ironic how few agreed with you back then.

[Onus]

I'd argue that if we do let Klay walk, we already have our 2 guard, and would need a point guard

If Klay walks I’d really want to try jk at the 2 and get a big shooter some how. Let jk/dray/wiggins bring up the ball. We’d then would be big, athletic, and physical at the wing. Dream would be Lauri. Allows jk to just be a rim attacker and poa defender. Removes him from rebounding duties and rotating as much. Then he or Wiggins can just beat up smaller guards on the offensive end while Steph runs around screens from Lauri and dray and teams won’t leave Lauri or Steph.

[CDM_Stats]

I'd argue that if we do let Klay walk, we already have our 2 guard, and would need a point guard

If Klay walks I’d really want to try jk at the 2 and get a big shooter some how. Let jk/dray/wiggins bring up the ball. We’d then would be big, athletic, and physical at the wing. Dream would be Lauri. Allows jk to just be a rim attacker and poa defender. Removes him from rebounding duties and rotating as much. Then he or Wiggins can just beat up smaller guards on the offensive end while Steph runs around screens from Lauri and dray and teams won’t leave Lauri or Steph.

Steph is our 2.. its time to embrace it

[CDM_Stats]

I doubt OKC would and don’t know if if works cap-wise but of course I do that trade if Lacob is down to pay for it. We’d be immediate favorites alongside Brooklyn. SGA is a 23 year old beast with good size, efficient scoring and playmaking ability. Favors is way better than Wiseman also.

OKC would never and we'd trip over ourselves to get it done... SGA isn't good. He's a star. And he'd fit in perfectly here.. he's got the wingspan to be a SF if we really needed it (6'11").

He'd start at SG until Klay was ready, and then when Klay was ready, you move Wiggins into the 6th man role that gets 24 min a night. Favors would be the backup C, great at that too, so the only issue is a depth one:

Curry (34) / SGA (14) / Nico
Klay (32) / Moody (12) / SGA (4) / Lee
SGA (16) / Wiggins (24) / Moody (8) / Lee
Draymond (32) / JTA (16) / Paschall
Favors (18) / Looney (18) / *Chriss (12)

That would be an amazing end-game for us. But again... OKC is not dealing SGA for this. Kuminga would have to blow up for this to be even a midseason consideration, and when I say blowup, I mean franchise-talent level blowing up

Ironic how few agreed with you back then.

ahhh that was an easy one. I'm glad the thread doesnt go back to 20-21, was swinging wildly back then. Was so worried that Oubre was gonna stick around

[Onus]

I'd argue that if we do let Klay walk, we already have our 2 guard, and would need a point guard

If Klay walks I’d really want to try jk at the 2 and get a big shooter some how. Let jk/dray/wiggins bring up the ball. We’d then would be big, athletic, and physical at the wing. Dream would be Lauri. Allows jk to just be a rim attacker and poa defender. Removes him from rebounding duties and rotating as much. Then he or Wiggins can just beat up smaller guards on the offensive end while Steph runs around screens from Lauri and dray and teams won’t leave Lauri or Steph.

Steph is our 2.. its time to embrace it

I mean the main reason he should be the 2 is so he doesn’t have to bring the ball up since everyone is pressuring him full court. Will teams pressure dray full court? I mean we run a lot of offense through dray already. I really just don’t want another smaller defender that can’t switch onto a big. Like djm is fine guarding 1s and 2s but guarding Lebron/ad or Jokic isn’t great. Whereas with jk we can bring help latter than on the catch theoretically. And if we bring in a real pg that will really overlap drays role on offense which is why he and cp didn’t really work.

[Crazy-Canuck]

If Klay walks I’d really want to try jk at the 2 and get a big shooter some how. Let jk/dray/wiggins bring up the ball. We’d then would be big, athletic, and physical at the wing. Dream would be Lauri. Allows jk to just be a rim attacker and poa defender. Removes him from rebounding duties and rotating as much. Then he or Wiggins can just beat up smaller guards on the offensive end while Steph runs around screens from Lauri and dray and teams won’t leave Lauri or Steph.

Steph is our 2.. its time to embrace it

I mean the main reason he should be the 2 is so he doesn’t have to bring the ball up since everyone is pressuring him full court. Will teams pressure dray full court? I mean we run a lot of offense through dray already. I really just don’t want another smaller defender that can’t switch onto a big. Like djm is fine guarding 1s and 2s but guarding Lebron/ad or Jokic isn’t great. Whereas with jk we can bring help latter than on the catch theoretically. And if we bring in a real pg that will really overlap drays role on offense which is why he and cp didn’t really work.

Lonzo ball. High risk High reward.

[Onus]

Steph is our 2.. its time to embrace it

I mean the main reason he should be the 2 is so he doesn’t have to bring the ball up since everyone is pressuring him full court. Will teams pressure dray full court? I mean we run a lot of offense through dray already. I really just don’t want another smaller defender that can’t switch onto a big. Like djm is fine guarding 1s and 2s but guarding Lebron/ad or Jokic isn’t great. Whereas with jk we can bring help latter than on the catch theoretically. And if we bring in a real pg that will really overlap drays role on offense which is why he and cp didn’t really work.

Lonzo ball. High risk High reward.

Can he even run?

[vvoland]

I'd argue that if we do let Klay walk, we already have our 2 guard, and would need a point guard

Moody or do you mean Steph?

[CDM_Stats]

I mean the main reason he should be the 2 is so he doesn’t have to bring the ball up since everyone is pressuring him full court. Will teams pressure dray full court? I mean we run a lot of offense through dray already. I really just don’t want another smaller defender that can’t switch onto a big. Like djm is fine guarding 1s and 2s but guarding Lebron/ad or Jokic isn’t great. Whereas with jk we can bring help latter than on the catch theoretically. And if we bring in a real pg that will really overlap drays role on offense which is why he and cp didn’t really work.

Lonzo ball. High risk High reward.

Can he even run?

I'm 10000000% behind things like this typically, but his contract is as-such that it would have to come at the expense of Wiggins or moving CP3 for it. And since he's an expiring, the Bulls only motivation to dump him for CP3 would be that they know he's not coming back this year. Tough situation to navigate and come out on top

That said, still OK with kicking the tires on Ben Simmons. Its a huge risk but it would only be worth it if he had 2 full years left on his contract, and he too is now an expiring. But the logic would be that you rehab him like OPJ - of course would take some luck - and then can sell him off the next season. Since we aren't really pushing for wins now, and because his salary costs too much of our 2nd apron cushion.. the only chance is bringing him in if he's waived. But I absolutely would - thats how you turn min contract/MLE contracts into legitimate draft capital

[CDM_Stats]

If Klay walks I’d really want to try jk at the 2 and get a big shooter some how. Let jk/dray/wiggins bring up the ball. We’d then would be big, athletic, and physical at the wing. Dream would be Lauri. Allows jk to just be a rim attacker and poa defender. Removes him from rebounding duties and rotating as much. Then he or Wiggins can just beat up smaller guards on the offensive end while Steph runs around screens from Lauri and dray and teams won’t leave Lauri or Steph.

Steph is our 2.. its time to embrace it

I mean the main reason he should be the 2 is so he doesn’t have to bring the ball up since everyone is pressuring him full court. Will teams pressure dray full court? I mean we run a lot of offense through dray already. I really just don’t want another smaller defender that can’t switch onto a big. Like djm is fine guarding 1s and 2s but guarding Lebron/ad or Jokic isn’t great. Whereas with jk we can bring help latter than on the catch theoretically. And if we bring in a real pg that will really overlap drays role on offense which is why he and cp didn’t really work.

Podz can probably handle it in a pinch, but I'm not as concerned with height as I am with footspeed. If we're hiding Steph off-ball at the 2 defensively (we kinda are, 2/3), then I want someone in the old Klay role of attacking the primary handler. And their whole role defensively would be to slow down drivers so our help defense can recover. That said, if the lineup is <PG>/Steph/Wiggins/Dray/TJD or Wiggins/JK/Dray or maybe even Moody in place of Wiggins, then the perimeter defense of the PG is less important, as those guys can cover a lot of ground

Very few perfect fits for this anymore, and the ones who are, arent available and are crazy expensive. DJM is the best fit, realistic enough.. but its likely not going to happen. So just have to make sure whoever it would be is good at the defensive side. Not to the extent of GP2, but someone like Suggs would be kinda ideal

[TB]

What type of draft collateral would be needed in either direction for:

Wiggins to Toronto for Bruce Brown

Loon/GP2 to Brooklyn for Finney-Smith

CP3/Kuminga to Atlanta for Murray

[Onus]

Steph is our 2.. its time to embrace it

I mean the main reason he should be the 2 is so he doesn’t have to bring the ball up since everyone is pressuring him full court. Will teams pressure dray full court? I mean we run a lot of offense through dray already. I really just don’t want another smaller defender that can’t switch onto a big. Like djm is fine guarding 1s and 2s but guarding Lebron/ad or Jokic isn’t great. Whereas with jk we can bring help latter than on the catch theoretically. And if we bring in a real pg that will really overlap drays role on offense which is why he and cp didn’t really work.

Podz can probably handle it in a pinch, but I'm not as concerned with height as I am with footspeed. If we're hiding Steph off-ball at the 2 defensively (we kinda are, 2/3), then I want someone in the old Klay role of attacking the primary handler. And their whole role defensively would be to slow down drivers so our help defense can recover. That said, if the lineup is <PG>/Steph/Wiggins/Dray/TJD or Wiggins/JK/Dray or maybe even Moody in place of Wiggins, then the perimeter defense of the PG is less important, as those guys can cover a lot of ground

Very few perfect fits for this anymore, and the ones who are, arent available and are crazy expensive. DJM is the best fit, realistic enough.. but its likely not going to happen. So just have to make sure whoever it would be is good at the defensive side. Not to the extent of GP2, but someone like Suggs would be kinda ideal

Wouldn't Wiggins just take the poa defense? Let Moody, Dray, TJD rotate and recover?

Defensively really being able to switch 2-5 would be huge for our defense. Like everyone is interchangeable except Steph. If the reason for adding a pg is for poa defense, wouldn't you just want a bigger defender one that doesn't need to play pg specifically on offense? Like if the lineup was Steph/JK/Wiggins/Dray/Lauri. JK takes POA defensive duties and you let Wigs/Dray/Lauri rotate. Now 2-5 we can pretty much switch everything. Maybe some matchups Lauri doesn't switch like Fox or Ja but for the most part we should be playing drop against them anyways.

[CDM_Stats]

Wouldn't Wiggins just take the poa defense? Let Moody, Dray, TJD rotate and recover?

Defensively really being able to switch 2-5 would be huge for our defense. Like everyone is interchangeable except Steph. If the reason for adding a pg is for poa defense, wouldn't you just want a bigger defender one that doesn't need to play pg specifically on offense? Like if the lineup was Steph/JK/Wiggins/Dray/Lauri. JK takes POA defensive duties and you let Wigs/Dray/Lauri rotate. Now 2-5 we can pretty much switch everything. Maybe some matchups Lauri doesn't switch like Fox or Ja but for the most part we should be playing drop against them anyways.

If those are the other 3 guys on the court.. sure. But often they wont be. And one of the things that is crazy to me about this board and the people who constantly bitch about Wiggins not being what he was 2 years ago.. he wasn't on ball nearly as much. He was off ball, and all that crazy length and athleticism was used in recovery. But to accommodate Klay, he became the on-ball defender a lot, meaning guys like CP3 and Klay were frequently asked to defend people near the rim, often times as the offensive player had momentum

But at some point I just stopped assuming Moody's going to be part of the plan, so if he's not, and Wiggins is still here (which I argue he shouldn't, but thats a whole other thing).. then put Wiggins back to being off-ball against their other credible handler. The other benefit to keeping Wiggins off-ball is that teams wont be screening him on-ball as much anymore, which tends to take that player out of the play. Its why you'd ideally put a good man defending dummy on-ball, like Klay was. I kinda still hope JK could be that guy too, but he's fallen off a lot since year 1 in that regard

[Onus]

Wouldn't Wiggins just take the poa defense? Let Moody, Dray, TJD rotate and recover?

Defensively really being able to switch 2-5 would be huge for our defense. Like everyone is interchangeable except Steph. If the reason for adding a pg is for poa defense, wouldn't you just want a bigger defender one that doesn't need to play pg specifically on offense? Like if the lineup was Steph/JK/Wiggins/Dray/Lauri. JK takes POA defensive duties and you let Wigs/Dray/Lauri rotate. Now 2-5 we can pretty much switch everything. Maybe some matchups Lauri doesn't switch like Fox or Ja but for the most part we should be playing drop against them anyways.

If those are the other 3 guys on the court.. sure. But often they wont be. And one of the things that is crazy to me about this board and the people who constantly bitch about Wiggins not being what he was 2 years ago.. he wasn't on ball nearly as much. He was off ball, and all that crazy length and athleticism was used in recovery. But to accommodate Klay, he became the on-ball defender a lot, meaning guys like CP3 and Klay were frequently asked to defend people near the rim, often times as the offensive player had momentum

But at some point I just stopped assuming Moody's going to be part of the plan, so if he's not, and Wiggins is still here (which I argue he shouldn't, but thats a whole other thing).. then put Wiggins back to being off-ball against their other credible handler. The other benefit to keeping Wiggins off-ball is that teams wont be screening him on-ball as much anymore, which tends to take that player out of the play. Its why you'd ideally put a good man defending dummy on-ball, like Klay was. I kinda still hope JK could be that guy too, but he's fallen off a lot since year 1 in that regard

Yea JK is a pretty terrible on ball defender. But feel like that would be the best place to put him to neutralize his effects on defense similar to Klay. Also he should be a better on ball defender if he ever stopped lunging at the ball and tried to mirror instead. But really with Dray and Wigs behind him it should be able to neutralize some of it.

[vvoland]

Steph is our 2.. its time to embrace it

I mean the main reason he should be the 2 is so he doesn’t have to bring the ball up since everyone is pressuring him full court. Will teams pressure dray full court? I mean we run a lot of offense through dray already. I really just don’t want another smaller defender that can’t switch onto a big. Like djm is fine guarding 1s and 2s but guarding Lebron/ad or Jokic isn’t great. Whereas with jk we can bring help latter than on the catch theoretically. And if we bring in a real pg that will really overlap drays role on offense which is why he and cp didn’t really work.

Podz can probably handle it in a pinch, but I'm not as concerned with height as I am with footspeed. If we're hiding Steph off-ball at the 2 defensively (we kinda are, 2/3), then I want someone in the old Klay role of attacking the primary handler. And their whole role defensively would be to slow down drivers so our help defense can recover. That said, if the lineup is <PG>/Steph/Wiggins/Dray/TJD or Wiggins/JK/Dray or maybe even Moody in place of Wiggins, then the perimeter defense of the PG is less important, as those guys can cover a lot of ground

Very few perfect fits for this anymore, and the ones who are, arent available and are crazy expensive. DJM is the best fit, realistic enough.. but its likely not going to happen. So just have to make sure whoever it would be is good at the defensive side. Not to the extent of GP2, but someone like Suggs would be kinda ideal

Who's the new Derick White? By which I mean the player that most closely resembles White on the Spurs, before the Celtics got him. i.e. good defender with shaky 3pt shooting that is young enough to take a jump or two. Would have loved to take a chance on Suggs but no way Orl moves him unless the injury is really bad and they're penny pinching. Wonder what SS has as player comps to D White.

I read the Turner critique and I wonder how much of it is a function of being on a terrible defense vs who he is as a player. Kind of like a big man version of who wiggins was offensively in minny. As he's expiring next year and is only making 20M, he may be easier to get than a long guard that can shoot 3s and defend multiple positions. Especially considering how old school that ownership group is (didn't they turn down a 1st in a trade recently (brogdon trade?) because it was 'wrong'?).

[wco81]

What type of draft collateral would be needed in either direction for:

Wiggins to Toronto for Bruce Brown

Loon/GP2 to Brooklyn for Finney-Smith

CP3/Kuminga to Atlanta for Murray

All moves to make the team smaller.

Interesting.

Oh and it's interesting, the same people who want to move on from Klay and JK are touting Ben Simmons?

[CDM_Stats]

Who's the new Derick White? By which I mean the player that most closely resembles White on the Spurs, before the Celtics got him. i.e. good defender with shaky 3pt shooting that is young enough to take a jump or two. Would have loved to take a chance on Suggs but no way Orl moves him unless the injury is really bad and they're penny pinching. Wonder what SS has as player comps to D White.

Well considering there's only one recent example that comes to mind and you named him, its a tough ask. I know of people who can kinda profile like that, but nowhere near White's impact. One I know especially well for various reasons is Ashton Hagans.. but that's more for a backup guard unless he really finds his shot

[vvoland]

Who's the new Derick White? By which I mean the player that most closely resembles White on the Spurs, before the Celtics got him. i.e. good defender with shaky 3pt shooting that is young enough to take a jump or two. Would have loved to take a chance on Suggs but no way Orl moves him unless the injury is really bad and they're penny pinching. Wonder what SS has as player comps to D White.

Well considering there's only one recent example that comes to mind and you named him, its a tough ask. I know of people who can kinda profile like that, but nowhere near White's impact. One I know especially well for various reasons is Ashton Hagans.. but that's more for a backup guard unless he really finds his shot

Keldon Johnson? Jaesean tate? Moody?

Just looking at the delta between fg% and defended fg% on nba.com. I really like this stat as it measures how much better/worse the offensive player does vs a specific defender as compared to their avg. If it was eFG or TS it would be even better, but hey, beggars vs choosers and all.

White is -1.9%
Hagans is -5.4% (not a name I was familiar with probably because Por and 18 games)
Moody is -4.3%
Kleber is -5.3%
Cody Martin (Cha) is -3.3

All of this could have been avoided if we just picked Murphy instead of Moody but hindsight...